not just missouri, best to avoid all cops

[ednksu]

Ed, can you give an example of a fatal police shooting in recent history that was not justified?

I think it was out of Texas where the cop got on the hood and fired directly into the windshield/driver of the vehicle.  I'll look for it, I had trouble finding the footage the other day.

[ednksu]

So ummmm that bottle of booze was actually a bottle of shitty homemade perfume.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-had-bottle-fragrance-205256849.html

So he still deserved instant death, yeah?

Good thing it was clearly labeled.  How does this rough ridin' matter?

It never mattered in the first place, unless Cincinnati has prohibition. That didn't stop you from pointing out the bottle of booze multiple times to try to call it a "clean shoot".

You're seriously a rough ridin' idiot.  That was never part of the equation for making it a "clean shoot".  It was an example of the escalating acts by Dubose before the actual incident.  I've always made it very clear to people with a <3rd grade reading level the potential dragging was the aggravating act.

The potential to be dragged does not authorize deadly force. You're out of your element, Donny.

You should tell the Ohio legislature to update their statutes than.

[ednksu]

So ummmm that bottle of booze was actually a bottle of shitty homemade perfume.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-had-bottle-fragrance-205256849.html

So he still deserved instant death, yeah?

Good thing it was clearly labeled.  How does this rough ridin' matter?

It never mattered in the first place, unless Cincinnati has prohibition. That didn't stop you from pointing out the bottle of booze multiple times to try to call it a "clean shoot".

You're seriously a rough ridin' idiot.  That was never part of the equation for making it a "clean shoot".  It was an example of the escalating acts by Dubose before the actual incident.  I've always made it very clear to people with a <3rd grade reading level the potential dragging was the aggravating act.

The potential to be dragged does not authorize deadly force. You're out of your element, Donny.

I can't wait to just run up to any moving car, jam my arm through the window, and stand my ground.

Are you a cop attempting to affect a lawful detainment or arrest?

[Rage Against the McKee]

So ummmm that bottle of booze was actually a bottle of shitty homemade perfume.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-had-bottle-fragrance-205256849.html

So he still deserved instant death, yeah?

Good thing it was clearly labeled.  How does this rough ridin' matter?

It never mattered in the first place, unless Cincinnati has prohibition. That didn't stop you from pointing out the bottle of booze multiple times to try to call it a "clean shoot".

You're seriously a rough ridin' idiot.  That was never part of the equation for making it a "clean shoot".  It was an example of the escalating acts by Dubose before the actual incident.  I've always made it very clear to people with a <3rd grade reading level the potential dragging was the aggravating act.

The potential to be dragged does not authorize deadly force. You're out of your element, Donny.

I can't wait to just run up to any moving car, jam my arm through the window, and stand my ground.

Are you a cop attempting to affect a lawful detainment or arrest?

What was the cop going to arrest this guy for? An arrest seems a bit excessive for leaving your license at home.

[puniraptor]

Are you a cop attempting to affect a lawful detainment or arrest?

no, but i would be a citizen whose life/health was directly under threat

[ednksu]

So ummmm that bottle of booze was actually a bottle of shitty homemade perfume.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-had-bottle-fragrance-205256849.html

So he still deserved instant death, yeah?

Good thing it was clearly labeled.  How does this rough ridin' matter?

It never mattered in the first place, unless Cincinnati has prohibition. That didn't stop you from pointing out the bottle of booze multiple times to try to call it a "clean shoot".

You're seriously a rough ridin' idiot.  That was never part of the equation for making it a "clean shoot".  It was an example of the escalating acts by Dubose before the actual incident.  I've always made it very clear to people with a <3rd grade reading level the potential dragging was the aggravating act.

The potential to be dragged does not authorize deadly force. You're out of your element, Donny.

I can't wait to just run up to any moving car, jam my arm through the window, and stand my ground.

Are you a cop attempting to affect a lawful detainment or arrest?

What was the cop going to arrest this guy for? An arrest seems a bit excessive for leaving your license at home.

Dumb or facetious post
(there is a reason why I put lawful detainment)

[Rage Against the McKee]

So ummmm that bottle of booze was actually a bottle of shitty homemade perfume.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-had-bottle-fragrance-205256849.html

So he still deserved instant death, yeah?

Good thing it was clearly labeled.  How does this rough ridin' matter?

It never mattered in the first place, unless Cincinnati has prohibition. That didn't stop you from pointing out the bottle of booze multiple times to try to call it a "clean shoot".

You're seriously a rough ridin' idiot.  That was never part of the equation for making it a "clean shoot".  It was an example of the escalating acts by Dubose before the actual incident.  I've always made it very clear to people with a <3rd grade reading level the potential dragging was the aggravating act.

The potential to be dragged does not authorize deadly force. You're out of your element, Donny.

I can't wait to just run up to any moving car, jam my arm through the window, and stand my ground.

Are you a cop attempting to affect a lawful detainment or arrest?

What was the cop going to arrest this guy for? An arrest seems a bit excessive for leaving your license at home.

Dumb or facetious post
(there is a reason why I put lawful detainment)

Why even detain him? Why not believe what he is telling you until you verify he's lying? He had done nothing that warranted more than a ticket unless his license was suspended, and the officer should have let him sit in his car while he figured that out.

[puniraptor]

Ed, can you give an example of a fatal police shooting in recent history that was not justified?

I think it was out of Texas where the cop got on the hood and fired directly into the windshield/driver of the vehicle.  I'll look for it, I had trouble finding the footage the other day.

couldnt that car have just driven over him? of course he was justified in jumping on the hood and wasting those (alleged) perps

[puniraptor]

can you take a break from this one and justify the tamir rice shooting?

[ednksu]

can you take a break from this one and justify the tamir rice shooting?

if you want to be bitchy fine, but don't ask legit questions and than act silly.  and yes the rice shooting was bad too (maybe a manslaughter, but not murder since he had the cap gun.)  but the other video is much worse and in my recent memory because the cops got off (jury just recently acquitted I believe).

[puniraptor]

can you take a break from this one and justify the tamir rice shooting?

if you want to be bitchy fine, but don't ask legit questions and than act silly.  and yes the rice shooting was bad too (maybe a manslaughter, but not murder since he had the cap gun.)  but the other video is much worse and in my recent memory because the cops got off (jury just recently acquitted I believe).

i'm not being bitchy, i'm honestly incredulous that you think the cops should be killing these people and i honestly want to know where your line is.

[ednksu]

Why even detain him? Why not believe what he is telling you until you verify he's lying? He had done nothing that warranted more than a ticket unless his license was suspended, and the officer should have let him sit in his car while he figured that out.

Because they are in a bad neighborhood and you usually don't trust people who can't give reasonable answers and become combative?  It isn't unreasonable to detain someone to ascertain their identity and Dubose did nothing to act in a reasonable manner to relieve the cop's suspensions that he might have been driving illegally.  He was coy about the car, indirect about his license status, and was playing childish games about why he was pulled over.  Does any of that warrant a shot to the head, no obviously not.  Does that warrant a simple detainment so the cop can determine if he is in further violation of the law, yes.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Why even detain him? Why not believe what he is telling you until you verify he's lying? He had done nothing that warranted more than a ticket unless his license was suspended, and the officer should have let him sit in his car while he figured that out.

Because they are in a bad neighborhood and you usually don't trust people who can't give reasonable answers and become combative?  It isn't unreasonable to detain someone to ascertain their identity and Dubose did nothing to act in a reasonable manner to relieve the cop's suspensions that he might have been driving illegally.  He was coy about the car, indirect about his license status, and was playing childish games about why he was pulled over.  Does any of that warrant a shot to the head, no obviously not.  Does that warrant a simple detainment so the cop can determine if he is in further violation of the law, yes.

What did he do that you would call combative?

[ednksu]

can you take a break from this one and justify the tamir rice shooting?

if you want to be bitchy fine, but don't ask legit questions and than act silly.  and yes the rice shooting was bad too (maybe a manslaughter, but not murder since he had the cap gun.)  but the other video is much worse and in my recent memory because the cops got off (jury just recently acquitted I believe).

i'm not being bitchy, i'm honestly incredulous that you think the cops should be killing these people and i honestly want to know where your line is.

Where did I say he should have been killed?  Just because I think your anti-cop position is ridiculous doesn't mean I support this shooting as I've made abundantly clear.  Just because you choose to see my position critiquing your views as a defense of the cop is your problem.  Try some self examination.

[Asteriskhead]

can you take a break from this one and justify the tamir rice shooting?

if you want to be bitchy fine, but don't ask legit questions and than act silly.  and yes the rice shooting was bad too (maybe a manslaughter, but not murder since he had the cap gun.)  but the other video is much worse and in my recent memory because the cops got off (jury just recently acquitted I believe).

i'm not being bitchy, i'm honestly incredulous that you think the cops should be killing these people and i honestly want to know where your line is.

Where did I say he should have been killed?  Just because I think your anti-cop position is ridiculous doesn't mean I support this shooting as I've made abundantly clear.  Just because you choose to see my position critiquing your views as a defense of the cop is your problem.  Try some self examination.

None of us are anti-cop. however, we're all anti-cops murdering people. I don't know your background, but I'm fairly certain that I'm the only one who has participated in this discussion who has been through traffic stop training. You're correct in stating that the cop should have detained our victim. However, that cop's poor training and conduct are what escalated the situation to the point it reached. Citizens are disrespectful and combative to law enforcement on a daily basis, if that guy couldn't perform the job properly, he shouldn't have been in uniform patrolling the streets. You're trying to play devil's advocate in a situation that you can't rough ridin' win. Shut the eff up already, you're making yourself look like a psychopath.

[puniraptor]

ed is a cop with at least 5 scalps on his belt

[ednksu]

can you take a break from this one and justify the tamir rice shooting?

if you want to be bitchy fine, but don't ask legit questions and than act silly.  and yes the rice shooting was bad too (maybe a manslaughter, but not murder since he had the cap gun.)  but the other video is much worse and in my recent memory because the cops got off (jury just recently acquitted I believe).

i'm not being bitchy, i'm honestly incredulous that you think the cops should be killing these people and i honestly want to know where your line is.

Where did I say he should have been killed?  Just because I think your anti-cop position is ridiculous doesn't mean I support this shooting as I've made abundantly clear.  Just because you choose to see my position critiquing your views as a defense of the cop is your problem.  Try some self examination.

None of us are anti-cop. however, we're all anti-cops murdering people. I don't know your background, but I'm fairly certain that I'm the only one who has participated in this discussion who has been through traffic stop training. You're correct in stating that the cop should have detained our victim. However, that cop's poor training and conduct are what escalated the situation to the point it reached. Citizens are disrespectful and combative to law enforcement on a daily basis, if that guy couldn't perform the job properly, he shouldn't have been in uniform patrolling the streets. You're trying to play devil's advocate in a situation that you can't rough ridin' win. Shut the eff up already, you're making yourself look like a psychopath.

The fact that you see it as devil's advocate is half the problem.  Pointing out the numerous problems with your position while ignoring 99% of my position is why you and a few others are whipped up into a frenzy.  Quite frankly that is why the majority of the country can't have an honest discussion about these issues.  You've stuff your strawman and refuse to see the legitimate criticisms associated with your position, especially when it blinds you to the positions others bring that might intersect with your own beliefs.


And no one has yet said where this officer went wrong other than reaching inside the car to unbuckle the guy.  No one has said where this cop escalated the situation inappropriately (other than generic anticop rhetoric from other posters). 

[ednksu]

ed is a cop with at least 5 scalps on his belt

mature post is mature

[slobber]

If you think that Dubose was cooperating with that officer, then I would have to respectfully disagree. Yes, the officer should go to jail for murdering him, but a couple of you are acting like Dubose was acting appropriately to the officer, and he was not.


Gonna win 'em all!

[michigancat]

The fact that you see it as devil's advocate is half the problem.  Pointing out the numerous problems with your position while ignoring 99% of my position is why you and a few others are whipped up into a frenzy.  Quite frankly that is why the majority of the country can't have an honest discussion about these issues.  You've stuff your strawman and refuse to see the legitimate criticisms associated with your position, especially when it blinds you to the positions others bring that might intersect with your own beliefs.


And no one has yet said where this officer went wrong other than reaching inside the car to unbuckle the guy.  No one has said where this cop escalated the situation inappropriately (other than generic anticop rhetoric from other posters).

yeah actually I did

As already asked:
I would ask this: what else do you believe the cop should have done up to the point of reaching in the car door?  Lets just start their.  In no way, IMO, can you say he wasn't polite, firm, but fair with his requests and demeanor.

As I said earlier, I think he could have been less hostile and let the guy speak, for starters. He was interrupting and was hostile and impatient. He also could have asked for the guys information and called it in to verify his license status (I'm guessing driving w/o a license on you carries a less severe punishment than driving with a suspended license). If that was not an option, he could have asked the guy to step out of the car (before opening the door). I'm not sure why he would need to have the guy get out of his car, but asking him would have been a far better option than reaching for the door and seatbelt.  That's just a start, I'm sure more could have been done.

[puniraptor]

ed is a cop with at least 5 scalps on his belt

mature post is mature

classic escalating warrior cop post

[ednksu]

The fact that you see it as devil's advocate is half the problem.  Pointing out the numerous problems with your position while ignoring 99% of my position is why you and a few others are whipped up into a frenzy.  Quite frankly that is why the majority of the country can't have an honest discussion about these issues.  You've stuff your strawman and refuse to see the legitimate criticisms associated with your position, especially when it blinds you to the positions others bring that might intersect with your own beliefs.


And no one has yet said where this officer went wrong other than reaching inside the car to unbuckle the guy.  No one has said where this cop escalated the situation inappropriately (other than generic anticop rhetoric from other posters).

yeah actually I did

As already asked:
I would ask this: what else do you believe the cop should have done up to the point of reaching in the car door?  Lets just start their.  In no way, IMO, can you say he wasn't polite, firm, but fair with his requests and demeanor.

As I said earlier, I think he could have been less hostile and let the guy speak, for starters. He was interrupting and was hostile and impatient. He also could have asked for the guys information and called it in to verify his license status (I'm guessing driving w/o a license on you carries a less severe punishment than driving with a suspended license). If that was not an option, he could have asked the guy to step out of the car (before opening the door). I'm not sure why he would need to have the guy get out of his car, but asking him would have been a far better option than reaching for the door and seatbelt.  That's just a start, I'm sure more could have been done.

Fair enough, I do even remember reading that. I was wrong to lump you in, although I disagree with you on the interrupting part being an escalation.

[ednksu]

ed is a cop with at least 5 scalps on his belt

mature post is mature

classic escalating warrior cop post

One of us was interested in a real discussion about how hard this situation is to sort through, the other is you.

[michigancat]

Fair enough, I do even remember reading that. I was wrong to lump you in, although I disagree with you on the interrupting part being an escalation.

less interrupting and more patience are examples of something the cop could have done differently. Not necessarily "escalations". Although human interaction is complicated and tone, body language, etc. can be considered "escalations" when added all up. It's stupid to split semantic hairs here.

[puniraptor]

ed is a cop with at least 5 scalps on his belt

mature post is mature

classic escalating warrior cop post

One of us was interested in a real discussion about how hard this situation is to sort through, the other is you.

have you even bothered to watch that one vice episode i was talking about yet?