Author Topic: Has Waters Improved?  (Read 11818 times)

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Offline CHONGS

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2014, 09:36:18 AM »
Queso has as good an arm as Waters.  Waters is not terrible, but it's debatable that he's in the upper half of the Big 12 no?  Well lets see:

Clearly better:
Knight
Petty
Trickett

Arguably better:
Boykin
Garman
Webb

Clearly worse:
Swoopes
Richardson
Cozart


I'd say he's smack dab in the middle if being positive, and power thirdish if being negative.

Offline kslim

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2014, 09:56:54 AM »
Boykin is not as good as jake. Other than that I have to agree

Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws

Offline steve dave

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2014, 10:07:09 AM »
Queso has as good an arm as Waters.  Waters is not terrible, but it's debatable that he's in the upper half of the Big 12 no?  Well lets see:

Clearly better:
Knight
Petty
Trickett

Arguably better:
Boykin
Garman
Webb

Clearly worse:
Swoopes
Richardson
Cozart


I'd say he's smack dab in the middle if being positive, and power thirdish if being negative.

yeah, this is good analysis

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2014, 10:15:01 AM »
Ching's analysis right now is correct and the numbers show it. Jake is mid-pack at best in Total QBR and traditional QB rating mainly because he hasn't thrown a ton of TDS (3-3 TD:INT) His YPA is a decent 8.2, but down from last year.

But turning the ball over less is a big deal and this team still has very nice points per play numbers right now (3rd in the Big 12), solid yards per play (over 6 is always good), and that's after clearly leaving 16 points on the field vs Auburn. Surprisingly, we're relying on the run to score in the redzone (2nd in the Big 12 in rush TDs at 16), led by Jones with 8 TDs mostly out of the wildcat. My concern is the efficiency of the offense and I think so far it has been solid and that's with Waters having more freedom to check plays at the line of scrimmage as any K-State QB that I can remember.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2014, 10:25:44 AM »
Ching's analysis right now is correct and the numbers show it. Jake is mid-pack at best in Total QBR and traditional QB rating mainly because he hasn't thrown a ton of TDS (3-3 TD:INT) His YPA is a decent 8.2, but down from last year.

But turning the ball over less is a big deal and this team still has very nice points per play numbers right now (3rd in the Big 12), solid yards per play (over 6 is always good), and that's after clearly leaving 16 points on the field vs Auburn. Surprisingly, we're relying on the run to score in the redzone (2nd in the Big 12 in rush TDs at 16), led by Jones with 8 TDs mostly out of the wildcat. My concern is the efficiency of the offense and I think so far it has been solid and that's with Waters having more freedom to check plays at the line of scrimmage as any K-State QB that I can remember.
QBR is stupid because it doesn't adjust to different systems. Our lack of offensive rhythm is our problem, not Jakes talent level. 

Offline PowercatPat

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2014, 10:56:20 AM »
Queso has as good an arm as Waters.  Waters is not terrible, but it's debatable that he's in the upper half of the Big 12 no?  Well lets see:

Clearly better:
Knight
Petty
Trickett

Arguably better:
Boykin
Garman
Webb

Clearly worse:
Swoopes
Richardson
Cozart


I'd say he's smack dab in the middle if being positive, and power thirdish if being negative.

Trickett, Garman and Webb are not better than Waters.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2014, 10:59:32 AM »
Queso has as good an arm as Waters.  Waters is not terrible, but it's debatable that he's in the upper half of the Big 12 no?  Well lets see:

Clearly better:
Knight
Petty
Trickett

Arguably better:
Boykin
Garman
Webb

Clearly worse:
Swoopes
Richardson
Cozart


I'd say he's smack dab in the middle if being positive, and power thirdish if being negative.

Trickett, Garman and Webb are not better than Waters.

Trickett, by any measure, has clearly performed better than Waters. ESPECIALLY considering the competition.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/501098/clint-trickett
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/550158/jake-waters

Offline Skipper44

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2014, 11:08:09 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2014, 11:09:49 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2014, 11:11:13 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

are you calling someone out on a spelling error? :dunno:

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2014, 11:12:02 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

are you calling someone out on a spelling error? :dunno:
:peek:

Offline Steffy08

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2014, 11:22:13 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

are you calling someone out on a spelling error? :dunno:
:peek:


The only QB that is clearly better than Waters is Petty.  LOL at Knight being better.  Knight is going to get exposed  this year.  Remember that at one point this dude was sitting while Blake Bell played.

Offline kslim

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2014, 11:25:48 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

are you calling someone out on a spelling error? :dunno:
:peek:
i don't care about the spelling of a backup poke qbs name. Sorry not sorry

Offline kslim

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2014, 11:26:31 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

are you calling someone out on a spelling error? :dunno:
:peek:


The only QB that is clearly better than Waters is Petty.  LOL at Knight being better.  Knight is going to get exposed  this year.  Remember that at one point this dude was sitting while Blake Bell played.
you have to be a sock, nobody is that dumb

Offline Skipper44

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2014, 11:26:48 AM »
Garmen has a great deep ball but sucks in short throws
yes, reminds me a lot of Waters last year.  Also, a little of Waters this year  :frown:
Who does this Garmen guy play for?  :dunno: Never heard of him.

are you calling someone out on a spelling error? :dunno:
:peek:


The only QB that is clearly better than Waters is Petty.  LOL at Knight being better.  Knight is going to get exposed  this year.  Remember that at one point this dude was sitting while Blake Bell played.
I don't think this is possible unless Trickett gets hurt.  Trickett is a much better fit for what WVU wants to do then Waters is for us - there is a reason for all the wildcat we run in the redzone

Offline #LIFE

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #90 on: September 30, 2014, 11:27:53 AM »

you have to be a sock, nobody is that dumb

08

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #91 on: September 30, 2014, 11:28:45 AM »
Jake is a rhythm guy that can be really, really good, or really, really mediocre when he's not "feeling it".

The one big positive for him, in my opinion, is that he throws a really nice deep ball on a fairly consistent basis.  That was critical last year because you had two guys (Lockett, Thompson) that could really penalize a defense deep.  Now that we only have one legitimate deep threat, we're seeing Jake have to rely more and more on an intermediate passing game, and that is not his strong suit, therefore, you're seeing his YPA drop.

Jake can make some throws that the average college QB can't make.  He's actually pretty decent throwing when flushed from the pocket, and there's really no throw that I feel he couldn't make.  There is a quick strike ability there where we can score within 5-7 plays and within 1-2 minutes that I can't recall with another QB.  Those are his strengths, IMO.

However, when he's not feeling it, he lacks touch, throws balls into windows that don't really exist, and worst of all, he tends to sail passes over the middle.  I honestly can't remember the last time I saw him throw a red zone fade where I thought, "Wow, that was nice." 

My hope is that Jake just takes a while to warm up, like he did last year, when we got to the seventh game against WVU.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #92 on: September 30, 2014, 11:29:39 AM »
I don't think the Waters deserves the blame, In fact I don't know why everybody won't be extreme upset with the staff on how they handled the whole waters situation.

1. Taking Waters over Marshall was a terrible decision.  :chainsaw:
2. Having Sams take snaps away from Waters was also stupid. Sams fits our system better but doesn't have the body to make it through the season. It was just bad luck.  :bang:
3. I don't think we run our offense in a manner that helps maximize Jake's skill set. Wish we would try to have more rhythm and let Jake in groove. We need to open up the run game with his arm not the other way around.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #93 on: September 30, 2014, 11:40:47 AM »
I don't think the Waters deserves the blame, In fact I don't know why everybody won't be extreme upset with the staff on how they handled the whole waters situation.

1. Taking Waters over Marshall was a terrible decision.  :chainsaw:
2. Having Sams take snaps away from Waters was also stupid. Sams fits our system better but doesn't have the body to make it through the season. It was just bad luck.  :bang:
3. I don't think we run our offense in a manner that helps maximize Jake's skill set. Wish we would try to have more rhythm and let Jake in groove. We need to open up the run game with his arm not the other way around.

1. I don't think they wanted to take one over the other.  Based on everything we've read here, it looks like we preferred Marshall, and Marshall wanted us.  It was the whole Klien/Del/Jake relationship that pushed him to us at the eleventh hour.
2. I think the preferred scenario would have been Marshall for two years, Sams for one year, and then whatever happens next.  But it is what it is.
3. I don't think Jake has the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game that will allow us to have a possession passing game.  I don't think you want that.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #94 on: September 30, 2014, 11:54:40 AM »
I don't think the Waters deserves the blame, In fact I don't know why everybody won't be extreme upset with the staff on how they handled the whole waters situation.

1. Taking Waters over Marshall was a terrible decision.  :chainsaw:
2. Having Sams take snaps away from Waters was also stupid. Sams fits our system better but doesn't have the body to make it through the season. It was just bad luck.  :bang:
3. I don't think we run our offense in a manner that helps maximize Jake's skill set. Wish we would try to have more rhythm and let Jake in groove. We need to open up the run game with his arm not the other way around.

1. I don't think they wanted to take one over the other.  Based on everything we've read here, it looks like we preferred Marshall, and Marshall wanted us.  It was the whole Klien/Del/Jake relationship that pushed him to us at the eleventh hour.
2. I think the preferred scenario would have been Marshall for two years, Sams for one year, and then whatever happens next.  But it is what it is.
3. I don't think Jake has the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game that will allow us to have a possession passing game.  I don't think you want that.
He ran the Air-Raid in JUCO and was an MVP quality player.  :dunno:

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2014, 11:55:47 AM »
I don't think the Waters deserves the blame, In fact I don't know why everybody won't be extreme upset with the staff on how they handled the whole waters situation.

1. Taking Waters over Marshall was a terrible decision.  :chainsaw:
2. Having Sams take snaps away from Waters was also stupid. Sams fits our system better but doesn't have the body to make it through the season. It was just bad luck.  :bang:
3. I don't think we run our offense in a manner that helps maximize Jake's skill set. Wish we would try to have more rhythm and let Jake in groove. We need to open up the run game with his arm not the other way around.

1. I don't think they wanted to take one over the other.  Based on everything we've read here, it looks like we preferred Marshall, and Marshall wanted us.  It was the whole Klien/Del/Jake relationship that pushed him to us at the eleventh hour.
2. I think the preferred scenario would have been Marshall for two years, Sams for one year, and then whatever happens next.  But it is what it is.
3. I don't think Jake has the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game that will allow us to have a possession passing game.  I don't think you want that.
He ran the Air-Raid in JUCO and was an MVP quality player.  :dunno:

Ehh...much like here, he heavily relied on a WR that was just better than everyone else.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2014, 11:56:05 AM »
I'm not going to get mad at our coaching staff for recruiting the best JUCO QB (statistically) of all time.  :gocho:

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2014, 12:00:51 PM »
I don't think the Waters deserves the blame, In fact I don't know why everybody won't be extreme upset with the staff on how they handled the whole waters situation.

1. Taking Waters over Marshall was a terrible decision.  :chainsaw:
2. Having Sams take snaps away from Waters was also stupid. Sams fits our system better but doesn't have the body to make it through the season. It was just bad luck.  :bang:
3. I don't think we run our offense in a manner that helps maximize Jake's skill set. Wish we would try to have more rhythm and let Jake in groove. We need to open up the run game with his arm not the other way around.

1. I don't think they wanted to take one over the other.  Based on everything we've read here, it looks like we preferred Marshall, and Marshall wanted us.  It was the whole Klien/Del/Jake relationship that pushed him to us at the eleventh hour.
2. I think the preferred scenario would have been Marshall for two years, Sams for one year, and then whatever happens next.  But it is what it is.
3. I don't think Jake has the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game that will allow us to have a possession passing game.  I don't think you want that.

you should have just stopped with "based on everything we've read here"


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2014, 12:10:57 PM »
I think the Del/Jake/Klein relationship has been overplayed, but I think Waters committing was a factor. I also think Malzahn offering him a scholarship (at Arkansas State) before anyone else factored in as well.

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/auburn/2014/09/17/six-weeks-impacted-nick-marshall-auburn-football/15810593/

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Re: Has Waters Improved?
« Reply #99 on: September 30, 2014, 01:03:29 PM »
I think the Del/Jake/Klein relationship has been overplayed, but I think Waters committing was a factor. I also think Malzahn offering him a scholarship (at Arkansas State) before anyone else factored in as well.

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/auburn/2014/09/17/six-weeks-impacted-nick-marshall-auburn-football/15810593/

I think any time you get one JUCO QB to commit, others are going to scramble because this is really their last shot at becoming a starting QB somewhere.

Conversely, if Marshall had committed to us before Jake, he may have ended up at Penn State, and maybe Gus comes in later and Nick goes to Auburn.

I still think Jake can have a good season.  He's on pace for nearly 3400 yards of total offense thus far, so if he picks it up from here, it's pretty much gravy.