Author Topic: Israel - Hamas peace process  (Read 55946 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #750 on: October 31, 2023, 01:45:21 PM »
you see KK he's actually so ineffective that he's incredibly effective. try to keep up
There’s a war and his people are being overrun and bombed into the Stone Age.

Very effective, tho (BAC)

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20499
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #751 on: November 02, 2023, 09:25:57 AM »
What is the reward for Palestinian who accept their second class status in the West Bank and are not violent? Humiliation and subjugation.

West Bank Palestinianslive in fear of
settler attacks
Israel’s war on Hamas in Gaza has violent repercussions in
the occupied territory

Empty streets in Huwara, a Palestinian town where fear of settler violence has left it looking like a ghost town © Ayman Oghanna /FT
Gunfights erupt every few hours, and the Israeli military has had to rely on air support for the first
time in years to buttress its ground incursions in refugee camps, where an active black market for
weapons has gone into overdrive, according to one arms smuggler.

Israel launched an aerial and ground offensive into Gaza in response to Hamas’s devastating
October 7 attack on Israeli towns and military posts, which Israeli officials say killed 1,400 people.
It was the deadliest attack in Israel’s history and traumatised and enraged the nation. More than
8,800 people have been killed in the bombardment of Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas,
according to Palestinian officials.

At least 125 Palestinians have also been killed in the West Bank by the Israeli army and armed
settlers in the weeks since, according to data from local health authorities and the UN. Nearly
1,000 Palestinians have been forced from their villages by armed settlers, mostly in a wide swath of
land dubbed Area C where the Israeli army has direct authority.

The tightened restrictions have triggered large protests, drawing several thousand people. But the
visible presence of Israeli soldiers has kept many at home out of fear.

“They’ve put us in a pressure cooker and lit a fire under us,” said Jamal, 28, who lost his job as a
pharmacist in Jerusalem because he has been unable to leave the West Bank.
At the same time, armed settlers have stepped up their assaults on Palestinians, especially those in
remote villages. The EU on Wednesday referred to these assaults as “settler terrorism”, asking
Israel to rein them in.

UN data shows that assaults have doubled since the Hamas attack, and human rights groups such
as Israel’s Yesh Din have documented a rise in cases where Israeli soldiers — including settlers who
have been called up for reserve duty — either stood by, or have intervened only to aid the settlers.
“The settlers already know they have impunity as civilians, now they have it as soldiers too,” said
Yahav Erez, the international advocacy co-ordinator at Yesh Din, noting how very few cases of
settler or soldier violence were investigated, let alone prosecuted.

Yesh Din said it could identify one single Israeli who had been questioned for attacks on
Palestinians — an arrest that came the day after US president Joe Biden said extremist settlers
“have to be held to account”.

Meanwhile, 1,512 Palestinians have been arrested since October 7, according to prisons data given
to Hamoked, an Israeli nongovernment organisation. More than 700 are being held without
charges.


The settlers gleefully share videos of assaults on Telegram channels with tens of thousands of
subscribers. Abu Hassan’s beating was photographed by his attackers, and in another video from
Hebron this week, men in Israeli military uniforms were heard laughing as they beat, bound and
blindfolded Palestinian men, several of them stripped naked.

As one of them bent over to kick a Palestinian, he could be seen wearing the broad knitted kippa
favoured by religious nationalist settlers. The Israeli military said that “the conduct of the force
that emerges from the footage is deplorable and does not comply with the army’s orders”, and that
it was investigating the incident.

Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Richard Hecht did not respond to detailed queries seeking
comment on several other incidents. He had earlier stressed that the “IDF is the sovereign in Judea
and Samaria”, using the Israeli expression for the occupied West Bank. As sovereign, the IDF is
obliged by international and Israeli law to protect civilians, including Palestinians.

The IDF has also reported several violent incidents against settlers, including stabbings, car
ramming and attacks, including an IED, on Israeli soldiers and border police in their incursions
into Palestinian cities. In the occupied West Bank, one Israeli soldier has been killed since October
7.

On Thursday, an Israeli man driving in the West Bank was shot and
killed by an unidentified gunman, police said. Three Palestinians were
shot and killed by the IDF in separate locations in the West Bank, said
local health officials.

The closures and restrictions have further depressed the West Bank’s economy. On the highway to
Nablus, the normally vibrant market town of Huwara is deserted, its streets taken over by stray
dogs and Israeli soldiers. On the walls, posters have been plastered with a picture of a lion, quoting
Talmudic scripture that Israelis have long used to justify pre-emptive killing: “Rise Up and Kill
First”.

Moves by Israel’s far-right finance minister, a settler himself, to stop the transfer of about $500mn
to the Palestinian Authority, which administers the West Bank, will deliver a further economic hit.
Israel collects the money from customs and other taxes on behalf of the PA, which uses the funds to
pay salaries and run its limited administration.

“We [will not] transfer money to this despicable enemy,” Bezalel Smotrich said, referring to the PA,
a rival to Hamas.

Cutting funds to the PA, choking the economy and the forced displacement of Palestinians, in
addition to settlers stopping Palestinians from the annual olive harvest in October, creates an
explosive situation in the West Bank, warn international observers and Palestinians.

“The West Bank is not going to remain calm at all — they are dividing us between the cities, the
refugee camps and the villages,” said Jamal Tirawi, a one-time militant convicted of orchestrating a
suicide bombing, and now a Palestinian politician with influence over the refugee camps. “We’re
witnessing a new era here — the settlers see a chance to end the whole Palestinian project, to clip
both wings of Palestinians, one in Gaza, and the other in the West Bank.”

The surge in violence has left Abdel Hakim Wadi, 52, mourning the loss of his brother and nephew.
On October 11, after armed settlers shot four people in his village of Qusra, his brother Ibrahim and
26-year-old Ahmed decided to help with the funeral.


Abdel Hakim Wadi in his home in the Palestinian village of Qusra © Ayman Oghanna /FT
Both were scions of a proud political family, with photographs of their meetings with Jordan’s King
Abdullah and Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas in their living rooms. Ibrahim was a chemist,
and Ahmed, an avid traveller and law student.

They went to a nearby hospital in a small convoy, including ambulances to carry the dead, hoping
to avoid the settlers living nearby on land confiscated from Qusra village. On their way back, said
Wadi, they were asked by an Israeli military liaison to change their route.

They drove straight into an ambush, Wadi said, with the settlers blocking the road and burning
tyres. Rifle and pistol fire came from a grove of olive trees nearby. “They were screaming, burn the
ambulance, burn the bodies,” he said.

Dashcam footage at the chaotic scene showed Israeli soldiers firing near the Palestinians, as Wadi
said his brother tried to create a path for the ambulances. He turned around to see Ibrahim
crumple from a gunshot wound. His nephew ran for his car but was shot dead before he reached it.
“It was all over in seconds,” Wadi said, his voice trailing off. “I don’t even support Hamas, and this
is what they’ve done to me.”

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 8692
  • a punk who rarely ever took advice
    • View Profile

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #753 on: November 06, 2023, 03:13:04 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #754 on: November 06, 2023, 03:18:50 PM »
Sounds like you're disappointed Wet Willie . . . sorry there isn't even more killing, bro.   :frown:

Maybe next time, so, soon




Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #755 on: November 06, 2023, 03:26:11 PM »
Still time, I'm not giving up hope yet.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #756 on: November 07, 2023, 06:10:43 AM »
Don’t worry, #neocongE’s favorite legislative perma neocon (replacing the late John McCain) is on the case.

https://twitter.com/a_newsman/status/1721515458212327655?s=46&t=-jwPwnR3rKHM9sk9hA7h8g

Offline bucket

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9558
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #757 on: November 07, 2023, 12:17:18 PM »
I’m currently team Israel but I was surprised at the number of casualties I saw yesterday. It was over 10,000. Hamas kidnapped and killed more people than I remembered, too.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2023, 12:54:01 PM by bucket »

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 8692
  • a punk who rarely ever took advice
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #758 on: November 07, 2023, 01:39:22 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
The Hezbollah grand poobah's speech was basically "we celebrate Hamas killing Jews and we could unleash our full wrath against the Zionist Oppressor but we aren't going to do anything different right now." The podcast also brought up the question of "what was Hamas' plan for October 8?" Provoking Israel to generate more death and agony for the Palestinians is a huge victory for Hamas but were they trying to accomplish some sort of larger strategic goal?

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #759 on: November 07, 2023, 01:53:37 PM »
Hamas should just surrender, would stop the bloodshed.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20499
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #760 on: November 07, 2023, 02:02:38 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
The Hezbollah grand poobah's speech was basically "we celebrate Hamas killing Jews and we could unleash our full wrath against the Zionist Oppressor but we aren't going to do anything different right now." The podcast also brought up the question of "what was Hamas' plan for October 8?" Provoking Israel to generate more death and agony for the Palestinians is a huge victory for Hamas but were they trying to accomplish some sort of larger strategic goal?
Well israel went from almost signing a peace agreement with Saudi, to Saudi hosting the Iranian President in Riyadh to work together on the Gaza issue.

Meanwhile Israel has killed 4,000 children, has tried to appeal to its allies to force Gazans to leave Gaza through the Rafa gate and has announced that they will occupy Gaza after the war is over, which provides Hamas an occupying force to target.

I would say it has basically gone better than Hamas could have possibly hoped for.

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 21453
  • Scholar/Gentleman, But Super Earthy/Organic
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #761 on: November 07, 2023, 02:08:09 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
The Hezbollah grand poobah's speech was basically "we celebrate Hamas killing Jews and we could unleash our full wrath against the Zionist Oppressor but we aren't going to do anything different right now." The podcast also brought up the question of "what was Hamas' plan for October 8?" Provoking Israel to generate more death and agony for the Palestinians is a huge victory for Hamas but were they trying to accomplish some sort of larger strategic goal?
Well israel went from almost signing a peace agreement with Saudi, to Saudi hosting the Iranian President in Riyadh to work together on the Gaza issue.

Meanwhile Israel has killed 4,000 children, has tried to appeal to its allies to force Gazans to leave Gaza through the Rafa gate and has announced that they will occupy Gaza after the war is over, which provides Hamas an occupying force to target.

I would say it has basically gone better than Hamas could have possibly hoped for.

A really mumped up situation, to be sure.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44895
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #762 on: November 07, 2023, 02:31:04 PM »
team Israel

I mean, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but at the very least I hope that was very uncomfortable to type and you thought twice about doing it

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 19761
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #763 on: November 07, 2023, 02:41:34 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
The Hezbollah grand poobah's speech was basically "we celebrate Hamas killing Jews and we could unleash our full wrath against the Zionist Oppressor but we aren't going to do anything different right now." The podcast also brought up the question of "what was Hamas' plan for October 8?" Provoking Israel to generate more death and agony for the Palestinians is a huge victory for Hamas but were they trying to accomplish some sort of larger strategic goal?
Well israel went from almost signing a peace agreement with Saudi, to Saudi hosting the Iranian President in Riyadh to work together on the Gaza issue.

Meanwhile Israel has killed 4,000 children, has tried to appeal to its allies to force Gazans to leave Gaza through the Rafa gate and has announced that they will occupy Gaza after the war is over, which provides Hamas an occupying force to target.

I would say it has basically gone better than Hamas could have possibly hoped for.

Can't find it now but read a twitter historian thread about the psychology of hamas and others who do terrible things to advance a "cause" and essentially drawing the conclusion that Hamas believes that they needed a lighting strike to get things going b
cause the last 20+ years have gotten zero results. The belief is that, "we'll be dead, but our grandchildren/ancestors will have a chance if we do this" "if we don't, they'll live and die like us". They believe their attack on Oct 7 is the "shot heard round the world" for their people.

Offline Fedor

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1588
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #764 on: November 07, 2023, 03:53:09 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
The Hezbollah grand poobah's speech was basically "we celebrate Hamas killing Jews and we could unleash our full wrath against the Zionist Oppressor but we aren't going to do anything different right now." The podcast also brought up the question of "what was Hamas' plan for October 8?" Provoking Israel to generate more death and agony for the Palestinians is a huge victory for Hamas but were they trying to accomplish some sort of larger strategic goal?
Well israel went from almost signing a peace agreement with Saudi, to Saudi hosting the Iranian President in Riyadh to work together on the Gaza issue.

Meanwhile Israel has killed 4,000 children, has tried to appeal to its allies to force Gazans to leave Gaza through the Rafa gate and has announced that they will occupy Gaza after the war is over, which provides Hamas an occupying force to target.

I would say it has basically gone better than Hamas could have possibly hoped for.
Where do these casualty numbers come from?  Are there observers on the ground in Gaza?  The UN?
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #765 on: November 07, 2023, 04:40:15 PM »
I thought hezbollah was going to open up a two front war on Israel if they sent troops into Gaza?  Maybe it just takes time.
The Hezbollah grand poobah's speech was basically "we celebrate Hamas killing Jews and we could unleash our full wrath against the Zionist Oppressor but we aren't going to do anything different right now." The podcast also brought up the question of "what was Hamas' plan for October 8?" Provoking Israel to generate more death and agony for the Palestinians is a huge victory for Hamas but were they trying to accomplish some sort of larger strategic goal?
Well israel went from almost signing a peace agreement with Saudi, to Saudi hosting the Iranian President in Riyadh to work together on the Gaza issue.

Meanwhile Israel has killed 4,000 children, has tried to appeal to its allies to force Gazans to leave Gaza through the Rafa gate and has announced that they will occupy Gaza after the war is over, which provides Hamas an occupying force to target.

I would say it has basically gone better than Hamas could have possibly hoped for.
Where do these casualty numbers come from?  Are there observers on the ground in Gaza?  The UN?

they come from hamas.

i personally wouldn't trust their numbers an enormous amount, but they're probably in the ballpark and much better than the numbers the un would or could produce.  i would absolutely bet every penny i own, for example, that the hamas count of civilian causalities in gaza is closer to the real number than the un number is for civilian causalities in ukraine.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #766 on: November 07, 2023, 04:47:42 PM »
Probably should stick to researching appliances imo
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40528
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #767 on: November 07, 2023, 04:49:59 PM »
Probably should stick to researching appliances imo


i already regret posting in this thread.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline I_have_purplewood

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2771
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #768 on: November 07, 2023, 04:53:06 PM »
team Israel

I mean, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but at the very least I hope that was very uncomfortable to type and you thought twice about doing it

:lol: :lol:. Jfc, unbelievable but expected.  Yes bucket, it's not too late to join the goEMAW anti-Semitic crowd.  Why wouldn't you back a terrorist organization that killed innocent women and children and still practices Sharia law still?  They would also kill you if you're gay, trans or LBGTQ.  Nothing wrong with that kind of thinking to our ol' pal MIgot. :flush:
Oh yeah, they still have American hostages they continue to try and barter with.  Awesome people who were wronged by the Jews!!!
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline bucket

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9558
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #769 on: November 07, 2023, 06:32:47 PM »
team Israel

I mean, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but at the very least I hope that was very uncomfortable to type and you thought twice about doing it

Ya, it crossed my mind that it might come off insensitive but I was in a rush today and rather than take the time it deserved I just posted what came to mind first and moved on to my next task. I had considered posting the axios article which provided casualty numbers in here over the past day for the reason stated in my post. I refrained until today when something prompted me to post. It’s been stated how hamas militants are included in those casualty numbers but that’s still a much larger number than I was expecting. Also brings to mind that Israel could just be conditioning the next army of terrorists.

Offline I_have_purplewood

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2771
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #770 on: November 07, 2023, 09:13:33 PM »
team Israel

I mean, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but at the very least I hope that was very uncomfortable to type and you thought twice about doing it

Ya, it crossed my mind that it might come off insensitive but I was in a rush today and rather than take the time it deserved I just posted what came to mind first and moved on to my next task. I had considered posting the axios article which provided casualty numbers in here over the past day for the reason stated in my post. I refrained until today when something prompted me to post. It’s been stated how hamas militants are included in those casualty numbers but that’s still a much larger number than I was expecting. Also brings to mind that Israel could just be conditioning the next army of terrorists.

:lol: Yes... yes... the jew hate force is strong with you. 
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #771 on: November 08, 2023, 08:24:17 AM »
Net to Pedo Pete - Piss Off Old Man

Meanwhile a legion of Arab Nations continue to reject the concept of taking in Palestenian refugee's (while they've pumped billions into Hamas over the years . . . money originally intended for humanitarian and public infrastructure efforts, but somehow helped make Hamas leadership billionaires.  The UkgroGrift is a little jelly) 


Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20499
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #772 on: November 08, 2023, 10:31:21 AM »
Net to Pedo Pete - Piss Off Old Man

Meanwhile a legion of Arab Nations continue to reject the concept of taking in Palestenian refugee's (while they've pumped billions into Hamas over the years . . . money originally intended for humanitarian and public infrastructure efforts, but somehow helped make Hamas leadership billionaires.  The UkgroGrift is a little jelly)

Does Israel have the right to kick Gazans out of Gaza? To take Gazan territory? The Gazans don't want to leave, but are being forced to re-locate. What are you talking about?

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20499
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #773 on: November 08, 2023, 11:45:00 AM »
One of the few things I have to give the Israeli public credit for is that they are holding Netanyahu accountable for his failures.

Worth remembering in the US after 9/11 Bush's approval rating was like 90%. Even with the Presidential Daily Briefings on "Bin Ladin determined to strike" and the specifics about planes being hijacked, I think it is fair to say that the US should not have been quite as ready for 9/11 as Israel should have been for an attack from Hamas, but not 60%+ approval points better.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231104-only-27-of-israelis-believe-netanyahu-is-suitable-to-head-government/


Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
    • View Profile
Re: Israel - Hamas peace process
« Reply #774 on: November 08, 2023, 12:05:35 PM »
He and his coalition government passed legislation in March that you can only remove a prime minister for medical or mental incapacitation. Yikes.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best