Mosul, Tikrit, etc.

[SPEmaw]

I have to admit, Felix is the master of deflection and redirection.  Very Obama Administrationesque

I guess if they're going to fail at Balkanizaing Syria, they're going to give it the ol' college try in Iraq.

For the rest of the thread, we need to come up with the peggy's and nancy's of an Iraq that is going to be broken up into relatively well defined geographic piece parts that's an extension of the defined religious divisions.   I'm talking about things like guarded inter-regional crossings and defense lines etc. etc. of a defined nature. 

Who can we do business with?   Well, for starters I think the Kurds are solidifying their position.  So that's probably a decent start.

Well put. The Kurds still control most of the oil production but I read that ISIS took over a 300,000 barrell/day field this week. That will fund their operations for an awful long time. Meanwhile, the boatloads of cash they've looted from banks as they've plowed through western Iraq will allow them to pay off any opposition. Weapons? I think Russia has that covered, right? 

[Panjandrum]

I think the moral of the story here is that we're better off propping up evil dictators.

That seemed like a good strategy in hindsight.

[Kat Kid]

I have to admit, Felix is the master of deflection and redirection.  Very Obama Administrationesque

I guess if they're going to fail at Balkanizaing Syria, they're going to give it the ol' college try in Iraq.

For the rest of the thread, we need to come up with the peggy's and nancy's of an Iraq that is going to be broken up into relatively well defined geographic piece parts that's an extension of the defined religious divisions.   I'm talking about things like guarded inter-regional crossings and defense lines etc. etc. of a defined nature. 

Who can we do business with?   Well, for starters I think the Kurds are solidifying their position.  So that's probably a decent start.

Because history started when the British Empire drew up the Middle East?  I mean what a claim!  It stands as a proud monument of ignorance to all of history, ancient and recent.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have to admit, Felix is the master of deflection and redirection.  Very Obama Administrationesque

I guess if they're going to fail at Balkanizaing Syria, they're going to give it the ol' college try in Iraq.

For the rest of the thread, we need to come up with the peggy's and nancy's of an Iraq that is going to be broken up into relatively well defined geographic piece parts that's an extension of the defined religious divisions.   I'm talking about things like guarded inter-regional crossings and defense lines etc. etc. of a defined nature. 

Who can we do business with?   Well, for starters I think the Kurds are solidifying their position.  So that's probably a decent start.

Well put. The Kurds still control most of the oil production but I read that ISIS took over a 300,000 barrell/day field this week. That will fund their operations for an awful long time. Meanwhile, the boatloads of cash they've looted from banks as they've plowed through western Iraq will allow them to pay off any opposition. Weapons? I think Russia has that covered, right? 

On weapons, well, they've captured many that we supplied the Iraqi military.  I bet if some of those ISIS legacy Ak's could talk, they'd tell you all about how they got their via CIA Arms Traders Inc. and various sub-corporations.   Like I said in this day an age; one day it's Hellfire Missiles into mud huts in Pakistan, the next day it's recruiting Al Queda elements in Libya for the war in Syria, you just never know.   

As an aside great piece in FP today about how the $50 billion dollar U.S. Intelligence Machine got "blindsided" on this whole ISIS deal (Sure they did).   

The Kurds need to avoid ruffling Turkey.   

[sonofdaxjones]

I have to admit, Felix is the master of deflection and redirection.  Very Obama Administrationesque

I guess if they're going to fail at Balkanizaing Syria, they're going to give it the ol' college try in Iraq.

For the rest of the thread, we need to come up with the peggy's and nancy's of an Iraq that is going to be broken up into relatively well defined geographic piece parts that's an extension of the defined religious divisions.   I'm talking about things like guarded inter-regional crossings and defense lines etc. etc. of a defined nature. 

Who can we do business with?   Well, for starters I think the Kurds are solidifying their position.  So that's probably a decent start.

Because history started when the British Empire drew up the Middle East?  I mean what a claim!  It stands as a proud monument of ignorance to all of history, ancient and recent.

Sorry that's so upsetting to you KK, but the Modern Day White Paper for such action was drawn up in Yugoslavia back in the 90's.   The only question on this, does the U.S. and the Western powers actually thrive in the Chaos?   A situation that solidifies a forever U.S. military presence?  A perpetual state of weakening insuring Iraq will never become a regional power again?

[star seed 7]

i'm disappointed that dax doesn't support the iraqi second amendment

[sonofdaxjones]

i'm disappointed that dax doesn't support the iraqi second amendment

What's that got to do with anything?

[Kat Kid]

I have to admit, Felix is the master of deflection and redirection.  Very Obama Administrationesque

I guess if they're going to fail at Balkanizaing Syria, they're going to give it the ol' college try in Iraq.

For the rest of the thread, we need to come up with the peggy's and nancy's of an Iraq that is going to be broken up into relatively well defined geographic piece parts that's an extension of the defined religious divisions.   I'm talking about things like guarded inter-regional crossings and defense lines etc. etc. of a defined nature. 

Who can we do business with?   Well, for starters I think the Kurds are solidifying their position.  So that's probably a decent start.

Because history started when the British Empire drew up the Middle East?  I mean what a claim!  It stands as a proud monument of ignorance to all of history, ancient and recent.

Sorry that's so upsetting to you KK, but the Modern Day White Paper for such action was drawn up in Yugoslavia back in the 90's.   The only question on this, does the U.S. and the Western powers actually thrive in the Chaos?   A situation that solidifies a forever U.S. military presence?  A perpetual state of weakening insuring Iraq will never become a regional power again?

Iraq has always been a fictions state.  It was precisely created to destabilize the country and necessitate a strong central leader to rule over the divided ethnic groups.  Its natural state is not as a country drawn up by the British in 1920.  It is completely ahistorical to assert that is the best thing for its people.  You don't need to be Woodrow Wilson to realize this. 

Your obsession with NATO ousting the war criminal Slobodan Milosovich is weird.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have to admit, Felix is the master of deflection and redirection.  Very Obama Administrationesque

I guess if they're going to fail at Balkanizaing Syria, they're going to give it the ol' college try in Iraq.

For the rest of the thread, we need to come up with the peggy's and nancy's of an Iraq that is going to be broken up into relatively well defined geographic piece parts that's an extension of the defined religious divisions.   I'm talking about things like guarded inter-regional crossings and defense lines etc. etc. of a defined nature. 

Who can we do business with?   Well, for starters I think the Kurds are solidifying their position.  So that's probably a decent start.

Because history started when the British Empire drew up the Middle East?  I mean what a claim!  It stands as a proud monument of ignorance to all of history, ancient and recent.

Sorry that's so upsetting to you KK, but the Modern Day White Paper for such action was drawn up in Yugoslavia back in the 90's.   The only question on this, does the U.S. and the Western powers actually thrive in the Chaos?   A situation that solidifies a forever U.S. military presence?  A perpetual state of weakening insuring Iraq will never become a regional power again?

Iraq has always been a fictions state.  It was precisely created to destabilize the country and necessitate a strong central leader to rule over the divided ethnic groups.  Its natural state is not as a country drawn up by the British in 1920.  It is completely ahistorical to assert that is the best thing for its people.  You don't need to be Woodrow Wilson to realize this. 

Your obsession with NATO ousting the war criminal Slobodan Milosovich is weird.

But the whole central leader concept has been turned completely on its ear KK, just as it was in Yugoslavia.  I guess I don't get the point, you're talking indigenous people throwing stones, I'm talking Super Powers and regional powers with tanks, missiles and nuclear ambitions.     

   It's not a weird obsession, the only thing separates Yugoslavia from Iraq is the initial timing of the "boots on the ground" phase.   We supported entities that were every bit as bad if not more so than Slovo was and we green lighted radical Islam in the region in the name of toppling a Russian-centric leadership and country.  With piece parts of said former Yugoslavian Republic not aligned with . . . NATO.   The hatred of between the various parties in the former Yugoslavia ran back hundreds of years in history . . . but that didn't stop the Clinton Administration and NATO from conjuring up their need to get involved. 

[michigancat]

What are you arguing for, dax?

[sonofdaxjones]

What are you arguing for, dax?

I'm not arguing for anything.   I'm just looking for who we can do business with, once all the dust settles.

Thoughts cRusty?

[michigancat]

I think we should let the dust settle (which may never happen).

[sonofdaxjones]

I think we should let the dust settle (which may never happen).

Sure, I think this administration prefers the chaos dynamic?   Roll the dice, keep stirring the pot and hoping they just keep fighting each other, find the right parties to do business with, hope there's no blow back.   Send in the drones from time-to-time if somebody gets too nutty.

[michigancat]

I don't think we should be stirring the pot or sending drones

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't think we should be stirring the pot or sending drones

Well if such things cause you disappointment, you should be disapponted and prepared for more disappointment.

Libya, Syria and now Iraq tells me it's calculated engagement/disengagement to sow chaos, destabilization,  and decentralization of power and thus no more geo-strategic thinking by these countries as a somewhat unified body.   So far they're 2 out of 3.   Western Oil companies have already made friends with the Kurds, so if that stays stable, they'll let the rest fight amongst themselves.   

[bubbles4ksu]

I don't think we should be stirring the pot or sending drones

Well if such things cause you disappointment, you should be disapponted and prepared for more disappointment.

Libya, Syria and now Iraq tells me it's calculated engagement/disengagement to sow chaos, destabilization,  and decentralization of power and thus no more geo-strategic thinking by these countries as a somewhat unified body.   So far they're 2 out of 3.   Western Oil companies have already made friends with the Kurds, so if that stays stable, they'll let the rest fight amongst themselves.

how do you rationalize your Big Science story in the climate change thread with your Big Oil-colored lenses? serious question, not merely trying to point out that you hold diametrically opposing views.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I think the moral of the story here is that we're better off propping up evil dictators.

That seemed like a good strategy in hindsight.

So true. There will never be peace in tribal societies until a ruthless ruler comes along. Assad, Gaddafi, Saddam, Mubarak all kept a relative peace and we've kicked them all out.

[Kat Kid]

I think the moral of the story here is that we're better off propping up evil dictators.

That seemed like a good strategy in hindsight.

So true. There will never be peace in tribal societies until a ruthless ruler comes along. Assad, Gaddafi, Saddam, Mubarak all kept a relative peace and we've kicked them all out.

Assad?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I think the moral of the story here is that we're better off propping up evil dictators.

That seemed like a good strategy in hindsight.

So true. There will never be peace in tribal societies until a ruthless ruler comes along. Assad, Gaddafi, Saddam, Mubarak all kept a relative peace and we've kicked them all out.

Assad?

We're working on it.

[michigancat]

I don't think we should be stirring the pot or sending drones

Well if such things cause you disappointment, you should be disapponted and prepared for more disappointment.

Libya, Syria and now Iraq tells me it's calculated engagement/disengagement to sow chaos, destabilization,  and decentralization of power and thus no more geo-strategic thinking by these countries as a somewhat unified body.   So far they're 2 out of 3.   Western Oil companies have already made friends with the Kurds, so if that stays stable, they'll let the rest fight amongst themselves.

What do you think we should be doing in Iraq and the Middle East in general?

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't think we should be stirring the pot or sending drones

Well if such things cause you disappointment, you should be disapponted and prepared for more disappointment.

Libya, Syria and now Iraq tells me it's calculated engagement/disengagement to sow chaos, destabilization,  and decentralization of power and thus no more geo-strategic thinking by these countries as a somewhat unified body.   So far they're 2 out of 3.   Western Oil companies have already made friends with the Kurds, so if that stays stable, they'll let the rest fight amongst themselves.

how do you rationalize your Big Science story in the climate change thread with your Big Oil-colored lenses? serious question, not merely trying to point out that you hold diametrically opposing views.

WTF are you talking about?   Did I ever say oil doesn't make the world go round?   I just don't get you bro, you're one obsessed Mother Effer.

[sonofdaxjones]

I think the moral of the story here is that we're better off propping up evil dictators.

That seemed like a good strategy in hindsight.

So true. There will never be peace in tribal societies until a ruthless ruler comes along. Assad, Gaddafi, Saddam, Mubarak all kept a relative peace and we've kicked them all out.

Assad?

We're working on it.

Hey kids, we still prop up dictatorships and theocracies.

[felix rex]

Dax seems to be a believer in the "Greater Middle East" conspiracy. It's very popular in the Egyptian press, too. They also cite the same litany of countries, arguing that the US is systematically targeting the strongest Arab armies to destabilize and eventually Balkanize the region, with only Sisi saving Egypt by kicking out our MB co-conspirators.

[sonofdaxjones]

Dax seems to be a believer in the "Greater Middle East" conspiracy. It's very popular in the Egyptian press, too. They also cite the same litany of countries, arguing that the US is systematically targeting the strongest Arab armies to destabilize and eventually Balkanize the region, with only Sisi saving Egypt by kicking out our MB co-conspirators.

Why did the U.S. overthrow Qadaffi?   Look at the mess that was left behind.   Hell, ol' Mo was trying to fight AQ.   What, Mo wasn't our kind of dictatorial pervert?

Why does the U.S. want to overthrow Assad?   Everyone know's it will a massive bloodbath in Syria if that happens.

[felix rex]

Look, Dax. We have photogenic Kurdish peshmerga posing for cameras. Did you know their name means "those who confront death"? Do you realize how well that plays in the press? Frankly, I can't imagine what else you expect us to do.

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