Author Topic: Lost in Space  (Read 8672 times)

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Offline Spracne

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2014, 04:01:32 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2014, 04:02:55 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

nasa writes them a huge check

Offline Institutional Control

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2014, 04:04:37 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Offline Spracne

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2014, 04:16:16 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Because the government doesn't have to bear the full cost of R&D.  As an analogue, it's cheaper for me buy a car from Cadillac than it would be for me to hire engineers and buy all the manufacturing equipment necessary to build my own Cadillac from scratch. 

Offline Spracne

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2014, 04:17:26 PM »
It's cheaper for me to buy steak from the store whenever I've got a craving for a filet than it would be for me to start a ranch and raise my own cattle. 

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2014, 04:19:18 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Because the government doesn't have to bear the full cost of R&D.  As an analogue, it's cheaper for me buy a car from Cadillac than it would be for me to hire engineers and buy all the manufacturing equipment necessary to build my own Cadillac from scratch.

Cadillac recoups that R&D cost by selling cars to more people than just you, though. These private contractors really only have one customer, so I'm not sure if that still holds true.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2014, 04:20:18 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Because the government doesn't have to bear the full cost of R&D.  As an analogue, it's cheaper for me buy a car from Cadillac than it would be for me to hire engineers and buy all the manufacturing equipment necessary to build my own Cadillac from scratch.

Cadillac recoups that R&D cost by selling cars to more people than just you, though. These private contractors really only have one customer, so I'm not sure if that still holds true.

Private companies need rockets to send satellites into space.  Plus, space tourism is becoming a thing.

Offline ydarg2012

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2014, 04:27:03 PM »
The modern space race IMO is about successful space tourism.  When the private sector finds a way to monetize this there will be no end to the money venture capitalists will be willing to pour into it.  This competition will drive for a safer, higher quality product that can then be accessed by the government when necessary as a private contract. 

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2014, 04:39:36 PM »
The modern space race IMO is about successful space tourism.  When the private sector finds a way to monetize this there will be no end to the money venture capitalists will be willing to pour into it.  This competition will drive for a safer, higher quality product that can then be accessed by the government when necessary as a private contract.

Probably true , but in the meantime it was an awesome idea to not develop a manned alternative to the shuttle before scrapping the shuttle program, and instead rely upon the Russians. Brilliant, really.
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Offline ydarg2012

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2014, 04:43:20 PM »
The modern space race IMO is about successful space tourism.  When the private sector finds a way to monetize this there will be no end to the money venture capitalists will be willing to pour into it.  This competition will drive for a safer, higher quality product that can then be accessed by the government when necessary as a private contract.

Probably true , but in the meantime it was an awesome idea to not develop a manned alternative to the shuttle before scrapping the shuttle program, and instead rely upon the Russians. Brilliant, really.

Yeah, effin commies.

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2014, 04:49:25 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Because the government doesn't have to bear the full cost of R&D.  As an analogue, it's cheaper for me buy a car from Cadillac than it would be for me to hire engineers and buy all the manufacturing equipment necessary to build my own Cadillac from scratch.

Cadillac recoups that R&D cost by selling cars to more people than just you, though. These private contractors really only have one customer, so I'm not sure if that still holds true.

Private companies need rockets to send satellites into space.  Plus, space tourism is becoming a thing.

don't private companies already build and launch their own rockets?

Offline Spracne

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2014, 04:53:39 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Because the government doesn't have to bear the full cost of R&D.  As an analogue, it's cheaper for me buy a car from Cadillac than it would be for me to hire engineers and buy all the manufacturing equipment necessary to build my own Cadillac from scratch.

Cadillac recoups that R&D cost by selling cars to more people than just you, though. These private contractors really only have one customer, so I'm not sure if that still holds true.

Private companies need rockets to send satellites into space.  Plus, space tourism is becoming a thing.

don't private companies already build and launch their own rockets?

Like I said, Space Ex launches commercial satellites into orbit.  I don't know if there are others, but there probably is. 

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2014, 05:08:04 PM »
How does a company in the private sector make money sending out probes like Voyager or the Hubble Telescope?

They charge a fee?

To the government?

How's that save money?  Because they will compete against other space companies for these contracts?

Because the government doesn't have to bear the full cost of R&D.  As an analogue, it's cheaper for me buy a car from Cadillac than it would be for me to hire engineers and buy all the manufacturing equipment necessary to build my own Cadillac from scratch.

Cadillac recoups that R&D cost by selling cars to more people than just you, though. These private contractors really only have one customer, so I'm not sure if that still holds true.

Private companies need rockets to send satellites into space.  Plus, space tourism is becoming a thing.

don't private companies already build and launch their own rockets?

Like I said, Space Ex launches commercial satellites into orbit.  I don't know if there are others, but there probably is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_spaceflight_companies

Offline Spracne

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 05:43:01 PM »
Oops, I guess it's SpaceX.  My bad.  Looks like they kind of dominate that space, at the moment.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 05:58:18 PM »
space tourism isn't going to fund anything

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2014, 09:13:55 PM »
space tourism isn't going to fund anything

This guy is gonna watch his b&w tv until they get the kinks worked out of those fancy technicolor tvs.
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Offline chum1

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2014, 09:16:24 PM »
I'd like to launch that damn Chelsea baby straight into the sun.

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2014, 10:40:57 AM »
Privatization mostly only works with the government serving as a backstop for when private companies eff up.  That's not real "privatization" -- it's privatizing the gains and socializing the losses.  When the government maintains operational control, at least the public gets both the benefits and the losses.

And I can say from experience that private companies are just as rife with inefficiencies as public companies.  You think CEOs want to take over services provided by the government just because they have some weird fetish for increasing efficiency?  Or is it because they see the opportunity to pad bills and get rich and leave the risk of downside to the government.

That being said, it's simply idiotic to speak in absolutes.  There are certain companies in certain sectors that can do a better job than the government at running things.  Even in those sectors, there are companies that are eff ups and won't do a better job.  And there are certain sectors where the government will almost always do a better job, such as monopolistic utilities -- e.g., a private water company with a monopoly on the pipes supplying water to your town has almost no incententive to give the town clean water if it is cheaper to just let the equipment turn to crap, whereas a government doing that job has to answer to the townspeople.
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Offline ydarg2012

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2014, 10:47:59 AM »
All very good points. That's why it makes sense to me that to have a competition based system you have to deal with a situation that is anti monopoly.  Where two companies at least are always competing and thus maintain subsidies. 

I understand that the oversight for this process can be daunting/astronomical. . .so it might not be efficient immediately. Yet, if we adopted the ideas. . .that could definitely lead somewhere.

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2014, 11:33:11 AM »
CEO salaries are actually a ridiculously enormous inefficiency

Offline slobber

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2014, 11:46:38 AM »
I'd like to launch that damn Chelsea baby straight into the sun.
:lol:

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2014, 12:09:14 PM »
Anything that can't be done without a profit should absolutely done by the government.

Offline ydarg2012

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2014, 12:13:13 PM »
Anything that can't be done without a profit should absolutely done by the government.

Doesn't the issue then become internal politics? The fact that there are so many hands in the decision making everything gets muddled?

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2014, 12:46:05 PM »
Anything that can't be done without a profit should absolutely done by the government.

Doesn't the issue then become internal politics? The fact that there are so many hands in the decision making everything gets muddled?

I dunno I was making an insincere statement to make fun or someone who posted earlier.

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Re: Lost in Space
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2014, 09:51:21 PM »
The government should never be engaged in anything for profit, sillies. It's run by a bunch of self interested jagoffs who were placed there by a bunch of rich self interested jagoffs for the sole purpose of diverting money to all the jagoffs. How some of you fail to realize this is baffling.
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