The tales of Brownback mountain: My religious liberty > your liberty

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Some people live in small towns that don't have a lot of bakeries to choose from, though. Also, some bakeries are a whole lot better than others. I think if you are going to open your business to the public, you should expect to deal with the public, including minorities, and if you can't do that, you should expect to lose civil suits BECAUSE THE CAKE YOU BAKED IS NOT YOURS IT BELONGS TO THE COLLECTIVE.

^^ Those guys could have an issue getting a cake in Kansas.    ^^

[ChiComCat]

 I think if you are going to open your business to the public, you should expect to deal with the public, including minorities, and if you can't do that, you should expect to lose civil suits.

Yeah. I think that's basically what was decided when the civil rights laws were upheld. Going to be interesting to see how the same issue is handled this time around, but this time with the additional hurdle that it will have to be to determined that the interest of being able to buy a cake from the best baker is important enough to over-ride what will be presented as the baker's sincere religious belief that he should not bake cakes for same sex weddings.

As several have said above, it will make for some interesting testimony and arguments.

I think I could maybe sympathize with the baker if he would show me in his religious texts where it says he isn't supposed to bake cakes for gay people.

Well, apparently Muhammad said to kill anyone who commits a homosexual act and turn effiminent men out of your houses. I don't think he said anything about baking cakes, specifically, but an instruction to turn effiminent men out of your house could reasonably be interpreted as saying don't serve gays in your business.

So they don't really have a religious reason to not bake cakes for gay people, then.

They do if they're Muslim.  I assume everyone that voted for it is Muslim and pushing their ideology. 

[michigancat]

Some people live in small towns that don't have a lot of bakeries to choose from, though. Also, some bakeries are a whole lot better than others. I think if you are going to open your business to the public, you should expect to deal with the public, including minorities, and if you can't do that, you should expect to lose civil suits BECAUSE THE CAKE YOU BAKED IS NOT YOURS IT BELONGS TO THE COLLECTIVE.

^^ Those guys could have an issue getting a cake in Kansas.    ^^

Are there religions that don't let you bake cakes for Asians?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Some people live in small towns that don't have a lot of bakeries to choose from, though. Also, some bakeries are a whole lot better than others. I think if you are going to open your business to the public, you should expect to deal with the public, including minorities, and if you can't do that, you should expect to lose civil suits BECAUSE THE CAKE YOU BAKED IS NOT YOURS IT BELONGS TO THE COLLECTIVE.

^^ Those guys could have an issue getting a cake in Kansas.    ^^

Are there religions that don't let you bake cakes for Asians?

We may never know unless they have a church/temple in Kansas. 

[Daddy Claxton]

They do if they're Muslim.  I assume everyone that voted for it is Muslim and pushing their ideology.

How amazing would kansas Facebook accounts be if the law was struck down regarding Christians because the bible doesn't say to discriminate against gays (does it?) but upheld as to Muslims because they can cite Muhammad's instructions.

[Rage Against the McKee]

They do if they're Muslim.  I assume everyone that voted for it is Muslim and pushing their ideology.

How amazing would kansas Facebook accounts be if the law was struck down regarding Christians because the bible doesn't say to discriminate against gays (does it?) but upheld as to Muslims because they can cite Muhammad's instructions.

The bible says they deserve death, but it doesn't instruct Christians to half ass it anywhere by not baking them cakes.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

What if someone asked a Jewish baker to cook him a swastika cake, or a ku alum asked a black baker to cater his Klan party?

These ku alum types are members of the "public", should the Jew and the black family be forced to accept their business?  I hope not.

The police state Nazis are running a muck in this thread.

[ChiComCat]

What if someone asked a Jewish baker to cook him a swastika cake, or a ku alum asked a black baker to cater his Klan party?

These ku alum types are members of the "public", should the Jew and the black family be forced to accept their business?  I hope not.

The police state Nazis are running a muck in this thread.

Great analogy comparing gay people to nazis and the klan. You have a firm grasp on this situation.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

What if someone asked a Jewish baker to cook him a swastika cake, or a ku alum asked a black baker to cater his Klan party?

These ku alum types are members of the "public", should the Jew and the black family be forced to accept their business?  I hope not.

The police state Nazis are running a muck in this thread.

Great analogy comparing gay people to nazis and the klan. You have a firm grasp on this situation.

That's not the analogy you nitwit.

The SCOTUS has repeatedly protected those groups right to free speech and association.  Public officials cannot deny them permits nor can they arrest their demonstration.  As I've stated, nor should public officials be able to deny homosexuals service based on their religious beliefs. The discussion here, however, is whether a private party could deny them service.

It wasn't long ago that homosexuality was about as popular as the Klan in the eyes of the public. Just think, if at that time, they were denied the right of free speech and association. Buying a cake wouldnt even be on the table today.  However, you, the simpleton, would willy nilly allow discrimination based on public opinion. And that is why YOU don't have a firm grasp on the situation.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

To put it in bbs terms: if this were 1920's Germany, ChiCat and his ilk would be talking about how great Hitler is.

[Dugout DickStone]

What's the Internet rule about people bringing up Nazis and hitler?

[Rage Against the McKee]

You should be able to deny service to awful people. You just shouldn't be able to discriminate based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

You should be able to deny service to awful people. You just shouldn't be able to discriminate based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation.

What a great police state standard, "awful people".  As decided by the government, or the proprietor. Because if its the proprietor you're back to square one.

Also, absent from your list is religion, physical ability (handicapped), mental ability (Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)). I'll just assume you think these people are awful.


Seriously, you people can't be this dumb.




Bu

[Jackstack99EMAW]

The bible says specifically to stone and kill gays, not to deny cake baking to them. 

[steve dave]

There is a lot of really terrible stuff in the Bible. Luckily most Christians have progressed beyond the worst stuff.

[Benja]

Most of my christian friends understand it's just a rough ridin' book.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

Can you imagine if a muslim denied a Christian woman service because she wasnt covering her face?  They would go ballistic.

[Rage Against the McKee]

You should be able to deny service to awful people. You just shouldn't be able to discriminate based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation.

What a great police state standard, "awful people".  As decided by the government, or the proprietor. Because if its the proprietor you're back to square one.

Also, absent from your list is religion, physical ability (handicapped), mental ability (Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)). I'll just assume you think these people are awful.


Seriously, you people can't be this dumb.




Bu

Why would I assume those people are awful? I do agree with you that religion, physical, and mental ability should also be protected. Of course there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. I think the Jew shouldn't be able to deny all service to the Neo Nazi, but he shouldn't be required to bake a cake with hate speech or a swastika. Basically, you shouldn't be able to deny service just because of who your potential customer is. You should need a reason. If a gay couple wants a cake that depicts two men kissing, I'm fine with the baker saying that he will make them a cake, just not that cake. I'm not fine with the baker saying he won't make them any cakes because they are gay.

[star seed 7]

You should be able to deny service to awful people. You just shouldn't be able to discriminate based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation.

What a great police state standard, "awful people".  As decided by the government, or the proprietor. Because if its the proprietor you're back to square one.

Also, absent from your list is religion, physical ability (handicapped), mental ability (Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)). I'll just assume you think these people are awful.


Seriously, you people can't be this dumb.




Bu

Why would I assume those people are awful? I do agree with you that religion, physical, and mental ability should also be protected. Of course there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. I think the Jew shouldn't be able to deny all service to the Neo Nazi, but he shouldn't be required to bake a cake with hate speech or a swastika. Basically, you shouldn't be able to deny service just because of who your potential customer is. You should need a reason. If a gay couple wants a cake that depicts two men kissing, I'm fine with the baker saying that he will make them a cake, just not that cake. I'm not fine with the baker saying he won't make them any cakes because they are gay.

What if the only cake he'll bake says "mommies burn in hell"

[8manpick]

I mean, if you believe people should have the right to not serve gays, you pretty much need to believe people should have the right to not serve blacks, right?

[Rage Against the McKee]

You should be able to deny service to awful people. You just shouldn't be able to discriminate based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation.

What a great police state standard, "awful people".  As decided by the government, or the proprietor. Because if its the proprietor you're back to square one.

Also, absent from your list is religion, physical ability (handicapped), mental ability (Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)). I'll just assume you think these people are awful.


Seriously, you people can't be this dumb.




Bu

Why would I assume those people are awful? I do agree with you that religion, physical, and mental ability should also be protected. Of course there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. I think the Jew shouldn't be able to deny all service to the Neo Nazi, but he shouldn't be required to bake a cake with hate speech or a swastika. Basically, you shouldn't be able to deny service just because of who your potential customer is. You should need a reason. If a gay couple wants a cake that depicts two men kissing, I'm fine with the baker saying that he will make them a cake, just not that cake. I'm not fine with the baker saying he won't make them any cakes because they are gay.

What if the only cake he'll bake says "mommies burn in hell"

Well, that is offensive and a clear case of discrimination. If the business owner isn't willing to bake them a cake that he would be willing to bake for other customers, then that is wrong.

[star seed 7]

I mean, if you believe people should have the right to not serve gays, you pretty much need to believe people should have the right to not serve blacks, right?

yes, and you also believe a business shouldn't be forced to serve whites either.

[Benja]

I mean, if you believe people should have the right to not serve gays, you pretty much need to believe people should have the right to not serve blacks, right?

I mean, yeah. It's like the easiest logical progression ever to make, and yet it still is getting tossed around legislation. How rough ridin' embarrassing.

[ChiComCat]

I think the free market can work a bunch of things out, but the most alarming thing about the legislation to me was giving public employees cover.  Some people could beat up a gay dude and for the police/ambulance, responding is optional.

[star seed 7]

I think the free market can work a bunch of things out, but the most alarming thing about the legislation to me was giving public employees cover.  Some people could beat up a gay dude and for the police/ambulance, responding is optional.

yes, i don't think the private and public sector are in the same conversation on this.  very different markets.  (this obviously includes when private businesses are contracted to do public business)