people talk about atheletes and student loan stuff

[TownieCat]

Another thing that bothers me is that your scholarship can be revoked. It's basically a one year contract and your school has you by the balls


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Yeah. Student athletes should be guaranteed their scholarship for at least 4 years, regardless of performance, injury, etc. The school should only be able to take the scholarship back if the athlete quits for non-injury related reasons.

How many places have you worked that have promised to employ you regardless of performance? I agree that you can't just take a kid off of scholarship for not being as talented as you expected, but teams shouldn't have to keep players around who don't work, skip class, are late to meetings/practice, etc.

There needs to be some accountability from the SA if he/she wants to be on scholarship.

[MakeItRain]

Seems to me that agreeing to be a scholarship student athlete is a huge risk, at least from the description MIR is giving, which I assume is correct.  You're sacrificing any real shot at a quality education, you're basically doomed to be broke in college, and the odds of going pro are astronomically small. 

So why are there so damn many scholarship athletes across the country?  Are scholarship athletes uninformed suckers when it comes to this stuff?

Woah

And yes being a student athlete is a risk and it requires sacrifice on some level

[Skipper44]

Seems like student athletes get a choice.  You take it or you don't.  If they didn't take the scholly, and went to college and had some crappy job, they still couldn't afford the lifestyle the scholarship provides.

This is the point I wanted to make, but I was busy making stupid analogies.

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why can't they go to the nfl or nba straight out of high school?

The leagues can both make age requirements if they want, they're just mitigating risk, the same way any profit driven business does.  What opportunities are available to those that wouldn't get drafted out of high school, and would their compensation  be more than, less than, or equal to a full ride athletic scholarship?

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my point is, its bullshit. if they are ready for the nfl or nba let them play. no more of this free farm system bullshit. if a team is willing to take a risk on them, let them.

Honest question, I don't know anything about it. But why aren't NBA ready bball players going the euroball route for a year? seems like they make decent money over there.   

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A few have tried it and it really hasn't worked out for the Euro teams.  The teams that can afford it are pretty good and most 18 or 19 year olds are not going to have much of an impact.  Brandon Jennings averaged less than 10 points a game for his Italian team, got drafted by the Bucks and put up 15 a game as a rookie.  A few big guys tried later and were pretty much a failure on the court and have never made the league.

[TownieCat]

They elect to do it because they clearly have support coming from somewhere else. You are aware that college, and things you need while in college cost money right?

I'll ask again, do you want our sports teams filled with people who can afford to be walkons? How much money do you think universities would make essentially charging people to watch intramurals? I'm sure advertisers would flock to that.

They elect to do it because there are privileges that come along with being a SA, regardless of whether you are on scholarship or not. They are able to do it because they have the means necessary to attend college without having to work while they're in school, or they are willing to take on a mountain of debt because they don't want to let go of a dream they've had since they were 5 y/o.

[MakeItRain]

Those euro squads don't view themselves as a minor league, they absolutely don't want to host an 18 year old for a year. That really isn't advantageous to building a championship team.

[DQ12]

Seems to me that agreeing to be a scholarship student athlete is a huge risk, at least from the description MIR is giving, which I assume is correct.  You're sacrificing any real shot at a quality education, you're basically doomed to be broke in college, and the odds of going pro are astronomically small. 

So why are there so damn many scholarship athletes across the country?  Are scholarship athletes uninformed suckers when it comes to this stuff?

Woah

And yes being a student athlete is a risk and it requires sacrifice on some level

Maybe I misunderstood you, or i'm actually responding to an argument I heard at another time, so I don't want to put words in your mouth.  I imagine that in most cases, getting a quality education is much harder for athletes than it is for some idiot frat boy (like myself), simply because they had this gargantuan time commitment that they had to attend to.  Most people would agree with that, right? 

And my last post wasn't meant to be rhetorical.  If we accept that scholarship athletes get such a raw deal (which I do), then why are there so many across the country?  How do you respond to the idea that no one is holding a gun to these guys' and gals' heads and saying: play college sports? 

[MakeItRain]

They elect to do it because they clearly have support coming from somewhere else. You are aware that college, and things you need while in college cost money right?

I'll ask again, do you want our sports teams filled with people who can afford to be walkons? How much money do you think universities would make essentially charging people to watch intramurals? I'm sure advertisers would flock to that.

They elect to do it because there are privileges that come along with being a SA, regardless of whether you are on scholarship or not. They are able to do it because they have the means necessary to attend college without having to work while they're in school, or they are willing to take on a mountain of debt because they don't want to let go of a dream they've had since they were 5 y/o.

You've made the same point half a dozen different ways. Again I'll ask you, how much money do you think the NCAA and universities will make selling intramurals? If thats what its going to be we won't have to worry about compensation because there won't be any money for the schools or the athletes.

[TownieCat]

Those euro squads don't view themselves as a minor league, they absolutely don't want to host an 18 year old for a year. That really isn't advantageous to building a championship team.

Basketball players can play in the NBDL right out of high school. Very few have done this, but it is an option for them.

[OK_Cat]

i lean towards not paying, just because the logistics of it seem sketchy.  how much do you pay them?  the same for each kid?  each sport?  male/female? 

just don't think it's something that could work without lawsuits and a lot of trouble.

[sunny_cat]

Those euro squads don't view themselves as a minor league, they absolutely don't want to host an 18 year old for a year. That really isn't advantageous to building a championship team.

Basketball players can play in the NBDL right out of high school. Very few have done this, but it is an option for them.

That really short St. John's commit did that recently I think. Can't think of his name at the moment.

[sunny_cat]

i lean towards not paying, just because the logistics of it seem sketchy.  how much do you pay them?  the same for each kid?  each sport?  male/female? 

just don't think it's something that could work without lawsuits and a lot of trouble.

I mentioned this type of thing last night.

[TownieCat]

They elect to do it because they clearly have support coming from somewhere else. You are aware that college, and things you need while in college cost money right?

I'll ask again, do you want our sports teams filled with people who can afford to be walkons? How much money do you think universities would make essentially charging people to watch intramurals? I'm sure advertisers would flock to that.

They elect to do it because there are privileges that come along with being a SA, regardless of whether you are on scholarship or not. They are able to do it because they have the means necessary to attend college without having to work while they're in school, or they are willing to take on a mountain of debt because they don't want to let go of a dream they've had since they were 5 y/o.

You've made the same point half a dozen different ways. Again I'll ask you, how much money do you think the NCAA and universities will make selling intramurals? If thats what its going to be we won't have to worry about compensation because there won't be any money for the schools or the athletes.

The Ivy League does this, but I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here.

[TownieCat]

Those euro squads don't view themselves as a minor league, they absolutely don't want to host an 18 year old for a year. That really isn't advantageous to building a championship team.

Basketball players can play in the NBDL right out of high school. Very few have done this, but it is an option for them.

That really short St. John's commit did that recently I think. Can't think of his name at the moment.

Former Cat recruit Latavious Williams also did this when he was ruled academically ineligible to play at Memphis.

[eastcat]

Lets just give everyone free crap and pay them too! Yeah, that'll work. 

[yoga-like_abana]

they are treated differently than everyone else so shouldn't they be compensated differently than everyone else?

[troubledscribe]

Paying college athletes is the absolute worst idea I've ever heard of. You know what they will spend the money on? Food? No. Drugs, Cars, Strip Clubs, and Casinos. College sports will turn into GTA5 on steroids. If schools really want to better support their student athletes, then the colleges need to negotiate with the NCAA a better compensation package along with their scholarships.

[Skipper44]

They elect to do it because they clearly have support coming from somewhere else. You are aware that college, and things you need while in college cost money right?

I'll ask again, do you want our sports teams filled with people who can afford to be walkons? How much money do you think universities would make essentially charging people to watch intramurals? I'm sure advertisers would flock to that.

They elect to do it because there are privileges that come along with being a SA, regardless of whether you are on scholarship or not. They are able to do it because they have the means necessary to attend college without having to work while they're in school, or they are willing to take on a mountain of debt because they don't want to let go of a dream they've had since they were 5 y/o.

You've made the same point half a dozen different ways. Again I'll ask you, how much money do you think the NCAA and universities will make selling intramurals? If thats what its going to be we won't have to worry about compensation because there won't be any money for the schools or the athletes.

CFB and CBB are not intramurals but they are distinctly inferior to the NBA and NFL but still make a ton of cash because of the ties the fans have to the schools.  Most D league teams have far superior talent to all but the best NCAA teams but no one cares about minor league sports in the USA.

I really have no problem for a stipend for the players in football and mbb as they are the ones earning the money for the university.  I do have a problem with paying the same stipend to non revenue athletes, mainly because it would be bad for schools like KSU.  There is very little chance of a financial payoff for non rev athletes, even less if the NBA ever decides to stop the charity that is the WNBA.

[MakeItRain]

Seems to me that agreeing to be a scholarship student athlete is a huge risk, at least from the description MIR is giving, which I assume is correct.  You're sacrificing any real shot at a quality education, you're basically doomed to be broke in college, and the odds of going pro are astronomically small. 

So why are there so damn many scholarship athletes across the country?  Are scholarship athletes uninformed suckers when it comes to this stuff?

Woah

And yes being a student athlete is a risk and it requires sacrifice on some level

Maybe I misunderstood you, or i'm actually responding to an argument I heard at another time, so I don't want to put words in your mouth.  I imagine that in most cases, getting a quality education is much harder for athletes than it is for some idiot frat boy (like myself), simply because they had this gargantuan time commitment that they had to attend to.  Most people would agree with that, right? 

And my last post wasn't meant to be rhetorical.  If we accept that scholarship athletes get such a raw deal (which I do), then why are there so many across the country?  How do you respond to the idea that no one is holding a gun to these guys' and gals' heads and saying: play college sports?

I don't think the time commitment from athletes interfere with their quality of education, aside from some missed classroom time. Athletic departments provide plenty of academic resources and all parties have a vested interest in keeping athletes in good academic standing.

The sacrifice is in all of the other stuff that is entailed in being a college student. Athletes simply don't get to enjoy the student life that non athletes do. College is the time of your lives for a reason. I'll tie this to the walkon point that tonite is on. I had the opportunity to walkon a community college basketball team. I did it for two weeks before I discovered that waking up at 5:30 to lift weights when I was never going to play was not to me, best decision I ever made. At K-State we had a walkon basketball player in our fraternity, we rarely saw the guy, his experience in the fraternity was much different than the rest of us. He spent so much time with team related stuff and studying he just didn't have time for anything else. He loved being on the team but it wasn't some glamorous posh life.

Why do they do it? Some feel obligated, some are chasing a dream, some don't know anything else; almost all of them feel an intense sense of camaraderie with their teammates. Again I don't think these athletes are suffering by any means but I don't think the system is doing all for them that they can.

[kso_FAN]

i lean towards not paying, just because the logistics of it seem sketchy.  how much do you pay them?  the same for each kid?  each sport?  male/female? 

just don't think it's something that could work without lawsuits and a lot of trouble.

I mentioned this type of thing last night.

This is my issue with paying athletes as well, but I'm sure with some good planning and thought it could work. Of course, we are trusting the NCAA with this, so who knows. I think longterm schools like K-State wouldn't benefit (and would likely be hurt) by paying athletes.

Its a different discussion, but kids paying to play sports (especially football) is a real thing that is happening more and more now. D3 schools are starting football just to get 60 kids to come and pay to play at their schools. http://deadspin.com/how-division-iii-colleges-profit-from-football-no-one-w-1440369611 Of course, that's a completely different circumstance than what we are talking about because people don't want to come watch that level of football besides parents of the players and a few people in those communities.

[MakeItRain]

They elect to do it because they clearly have support coming from somewhere else. You are aware that college, and things you need while in college cost money right?

I'll ask again, do you want our sports teams filled with people who can afford to be walkons? How much money do you think universities would make essentially charging people to watch intramurals? I'm sure advertisers would flock to that.

They elect to do it because there are privileges that come along with being a SA, regardless of whether you are on scholarship or not. They are able to do it because they have the means necessary to attend college without having to work while they're in school, or they are willing to take on a mountain of debt because they don't want to let go of a dream they've had since they were 5 y/o.

You've made the same point half a dozen different ways. Again I'll ask you, how much money do you think the NCAA and universities will make selling intramurals? If thats what its going to be we won't have to worry about compensation because there won't be any money for the schools or the athletes.

The Ivy League does this, but I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here.

Ivy League and Patriot League athletes are on scholarship just not athletic scholarship. And your ivy league example slammed my point home. They don't attract top flight athletes, their schools athletic departments make no money for their schools, they may as well be D2.

[MakeItRain]

i lean towards not paying, just because the logistics of it seem sketchy.  how much do you pay them?  the same for each kid?  each sport?  male/female? 

just don't think it's something that could work without lawsuits and a lot of trouble.

I mentioned this type of thing last night.

Lets just give everyone free crap and pay them too! Yeah, that'll work. 

Paying college athletes is the absolute worst idea I've ever heard of. You know what they will spend the money on? Food? No. Drugs, Cars, Strip Clubs, and Casinos. College sports will turn into GTA5 on steroids. If schools really want to better support their student athletes, then the colleges need to negotiate with the NCAA a better compensation package along with their scholarships.

I realize the posters I quotes here and their track record of reading and comprehension but who the hell said anything about paying athletes?

[troubledscribe]

A stipend is the same thing as paying athletes. Wake up.

[MadCat]

Salary cap

[yoga-like_abana]

If schools really want to better support their student athletes, then the colleges need to negotiate with the NCAA a better compensation package along with their scholarships.

A stipend is the same thing as paying athletes. Wake up.

how exactly would you set it up so this would be something that could be set up across the board and be attainable for all sports and SA's?

[troubledscribe]

If schools really want to better support their student athletes, then the colleges need to negotiate with the NCAA a better compensation package along with their scholarships.

A stipend is the same thing as paying athletes. Wake up.

how exactly would you set it up so this would be something that could be set up across the board and be attainable for all sports and SA's?

That is the problem. I don't think you can fairly extend compensation between every sport and SA without someone getting screwed. The best chance of success for something like this, would be if each sport individually presented their "compensation package" to the governing body. If each sport was governed separately it has a chance, but sharing an entire athletic budget equally for every sport and SA just isn't going to work.