QB rotation stunting Sams growth

[kso_FAN]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

[catzacker]

IMO….
Baylor was probably Sams’ best game – and he had a costly turn over at the end. 

UT was probably Waters’ best game – and he had a costly turn over at the end.

Sams had a good game against OSU but turned it over a lot.

Waters had a good game against OU but turned it over a lot.

There are things that Waters has shown (on a consistent basis) that Sams hasn’t shown (this point will be and has been argued, if you disagree, fine). 

There are things that Sams has shown (on a consistent basis) that Waters hasn’t shown.

In both situations, some of the things they have/haven’t shown have been a product of what the coaches are willing (right or wrong) to let them show/not show.  Others are part of their limitations.

I can’t stand Waters.  Can’t stand him.  I want Sams to do whatever the hell it is that he’s not doing (again, right or wrong) in the coaches’ eyes to start because I believe the success I’ve seen this coaching staff achieve is through Sams’ skill set rather than Waters’ skill set. 

#fence

[chum1]

Is something lost in the stats because Sams, who is apparently most effective running, is being compared to a bunch of QBs who mostly throw?  Also, when Sams throws, to what extent is he throwing the same sorts of passes that the other QBs throw, or is his passing game more limited than theirs?

[michigancat]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

No one takes the time to really analyze Waters' mistakes like they do Sams'

[kso_FAN]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

No one takes the time to really analyze Waters' mistakes like they do Sams'

Do it!

[ChiComCat]

Fun Fact: Waters has 22% of the team's rushing attempts and Sams has 22% of the team's passing attempts. 

[catzacker]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

No one takes the time to really analyze Waters' mistakes like they do Sams'

yeah, i remember at the beginning of the year a lot of people didn't even realize that Waters was turning it over a lot.

[Skipper44]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

No one takes the time to really analyze Waters' mistakes like they do Sams'

yeah, i remember at the beginning of the year a lot of people didn't even realize that Waters was turning it over a lot.

3 and outs into the wind should count as TO

[420seriouscat69]

That's just untrue, MC. This board analyzes waters mistakes all the time and bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs. Sam's need more snaps tho.

[MakeItRain]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

[#LIFE]

Look.  Daniel is a gifted athlete and could become a very good quarterback if he improves in some areas one of which is controlling his emotions.  I happen to believe that Coach is probably a little uneasy with Sams high stepping, helmet slapping, and jaw jacking during the game.  Look me in the eye and tell me that you don't think Coach is more comfortable with Water's demeanor.

 

[kso_FAN]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I can't disagree with most of that, but this was a pretty damn good throw. Lockett was open, but a 50 yard throw right in stride is still pretty good.

[MakeItRain]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I can't disagree with most of that, but this was a pretty damn good throw. Lockett was open, but a 50 yard throw right in stride is still pretty good.

beautiful

[Rage Against the McKee]

I was starting to think that maybe everyone, myself included, was maybe overreacting with this whole H3O business and harping on the 3 and outs and short drives Jake puts together. I mean, how often does that really happen? So, over lunch I looked up the play by play of our conference games. Throwing out drives where Sams plays at least one play, as well as drives at the end of each half that don't result in points, Waters has run the offense for 45 drives. Of those 45, 24 have been 4 plays or less and resulted in 0 points. JFC, that is awful. He's H3O 53% of the time. That's way worse that I thought it would be. Keep in mind that this is a very lenient metric that considers 5 plays and a punt or 5 plays and a butt fumble as positive outcomes.

[420seriouscat69]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I knew this would be brought up, but Waters had a few nice touch passes. If you're going to discredit waters for great receiver play, you have to do the same with Sams.

[MakeItRain]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I knew this would be brought up, but Waters had a few nice touch passes. If you're going to discredit waters for great receiver play, you have to do the same with Sams.

I wish I had the chance. I would like to think that if Sams and Waters were yielding the same results everyone would credit the receivers for being amazing. There were many many many pro-lifers that pointed out how unfair it was that Sams got most of his attempts the two weeks when Lockett and Thompson were out. I don't mean to completely discredit Waters deep passing ability. I just want to make it clear that it shouldn't be used as a weakness of Sams, since he hasn't been given anywhere close to the chances that Waters did. Against OSU Sams completed long passes to Gronk and Torrel.

[420seriouscat69]

That's totally fair.

[eastcat]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I knew this would be brought up, but Waters had a few nice touch passes. If you're going to discredit waters for great receiver play, you have to do the same with Sams.

I wish I had the chance. I would like to think that if Sams and Waters were yielding the same results everyone would credit the receivers for being amazing. There were many many many pro-lifers that pointed out how unfair it was that Sams got most of his attempts the two weeks when Lockett and Thompson were out. I don't mean to completely discredit Waters deep passing ability. I just want to make it clear that it shouldn't be used as a weakness of Sams, since he hasn't been given anywhere close to the chances that Waters did. Against OSU Sams completed long passes to Gronk and Torrel.

Gronk's pass was like 10 yards max. YAC got the other 50.

[Rage Against the McKee]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I knew this would be brought up, but Waters had a few nice touch passes. If you're going to discredit waters for great receiver play, you have to do the same with Sams.

I wish I had the chance. I would like to think that if Sams and Waters were yielding the same results everyone would credit the receivers for being amazing. There were many many many pro-lifers that pointed out how unfair it was that Sams got most of his attempts the two weeks when Lockett and Thompson were out. I don't mean to completely discredit Waters deep passing ability. I just want to make it clear that it shouldn't be used as a weakness of Sams, since he hasn't been given anywhere close to the chances that Waters did. Against OSU Sams completed long passes to Gronk and Torrel.

Gronk's pass was like 10 yards max. YAC got the other 50.

YAC got about 50 yards of Water's bomb to Lockett as well. Who cares?

[star seed 7]

I was starting to think that maybe everyone, myself included, was maybe overreacting with this whole H3O business and harping on the 3 and outs and short drives Jake puts together. I mean, how often does that really happen? So, over lunch I looked up the play by play of our conference games. Throwing out drives where Sams plays at least one play, as well as drives at the end of each half that don't result in points, Waters has run the offense for 45 drives. Of those 45, 24 have been 4 plays or less and resulted in 0 points. JFC, that is awful. He's H3O 53% of the time. That's way worse that I thought it would be. Keep in mind that this is a very lenient metric that considers 5 plays and a punt or 5 plays and a butt fumble as positive outcomes.

 

[MakeItRain]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I knew this would be brought up, but Waters had a few nice touch passes. If you're going to discredit waters for great receiver play, you have to do the same with Sams.

I wish I had the chance. I would like to think that if Sams and Waters were yielding the same results everyone would credit the receivers for being amazing. There were many many many pro-lifers that pointed out how unfair it was that Sams got most of his attempts the two weeks when Lockett and Thompson were out. I don't mean to completely discredit Waters deep passing ability. I just want to make it clear that it shouldn't be used as a weakness of Sams, since he hasn't been given anywhere close to the chances that Waters did. Against OSU Sams completed long passes to Gronk and Torrel.

Gronk's pass was like 10 yards max. YAC got the other 50.

And how much YAC has been cost by inaccurate throws by both QBs? Dumbass.

[michigancat]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

No one takes the time to really analyze Waters' mistakes like they do Sams'

yeah, i remember at the beginning of the year a lot of people didn't even realize that Waters was turning it over a lot.

Our coaches?

[steve dave]

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

That is extremely generous. 3 fumbles (yes, 1 was a bad call) were all in critical situations. 2 INTs were in situations when we were within one score. People question the play calls, but on both he had intermediate and deep routes, he chose to take a chance deep and it cost him. Another INT was a good read, but just not quite a good throw. 1 was definitely a chance taken when we were in a whole (as were several of Waters' INTs). I don't think its fair to Sams' abilities as a QB to give him an out like that, especially when its not really true.

I'd say the same thing about Waters' dumb fumbles and INTs, which are most of his TOs as well.

No one takes the time to really analyze Waters' mistakes like they do Sams'

yeah, i remember at the beginning of the year a lot of people didn't even realize that Waters was turning it over a lot.

Our coaches?

lol

[eastcat]

bury their heads in the sand on 99 yard TD bombs

When did this happen? Of you are referring to the 90 yard bomb, people aren't crediting Waters because Lockett was a million miles open. Of the 5 long TD passes Waters has thrown the last two weeks 4 of them were to receivers so open that a severe under throw wouldn't have made a difference, literally HS QBs could have completed them. 3 were dur to amazing routes, 1 due to a DB falling down. The pass to Thompson was 2 seconds late and 7 yards under thrown. He did have a really nice pass to Lockett, the second TD against OU I believe.

The dropped snap and then blind prayer to Thompson against OU was hilarious, and amazing catch by tripleF'inT

I knew this would be brought up, but Waters had a few nice touch passes. If you're going to discredit waters for great receiver play, you have to do the same with Sams.

I wish I had the chance. I would like to think that if Sams and Waters were yielding the same results everyone would credit the receivers for being amazing. There were many many many pro-lifers that pointed out how unfair it was that Sams got most of his attempts the two weeks when Lockett and Thompson were out. I don't mean to completely discredit Waters deep passing ability. I just want to make it clear that it shouldn't be used as a weakness of Sams, since he hasn't been given anywhere close to the chances that Waters did. Against OSU Sams completed long passes to Gronk and Torrel.

Gronk's pass was like 10 yards max. YAC got the other 50.

YAC got about 50 yards of Water's bomb to Lockett as well. Who cares?

Sams ability to deliver it deep is in question. Figured a pass that counted as 50 but was really 10 would be RELEVANT.

[UCHADBRO]

I'm not a football genius but it's pretty evident that the offense looks better when Sams comes out with a full playbook. My tuck roommate gets all defensive about H30 and we get into yelling matches during games. I'm attributing it to him being an idiot and maybe racist too. Everyone can go ahead and defend Waters all they want (they're wrong) but I think if the coaching staff wouldn't handcuff Sams half the time I don't think this would even be an argument.