QB rotation stunting Sams growth

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

No doubt that 2nd quarter stretch was bad offensive football, but for the course of the game both QBs had good stretches that led to points. I don't think we win that game by playing only one or the other.

Waters hit one big play between about 5 H3Os and then led the final drive for the game winning field goal. Sams moved the ball consistently throughout the entire game and was only stopped once by a fumble. I think we win that game by multiple touchdowns if we don't play Waters.

If we still had Klein, would you support playing both QBs? Klein was a very similar QB to Sams.

[kso_FAN]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

No doubt that 2nd quarter stretch was bad offensive football, but for the course of the game both QBs had good stretches that led to points. I don't think we win that game by playing only one or the other.

Waters hit one big play between about 5 H3Os and then led the final drive for the game winning field goal. Sams moved the ball consistently throughout the entire game and was only stopped once by a fumble. I think we win that game by multiple touchdowns if we don't play Waters.

If we still had Klein, would you support playing both QBs? Klein was a very similar QB to Sams.

Klein last year? No. But if it was Klein in 2011 with Waters, I think both would've played.

While similar, I don't think Sams is built to take the punishment of running power football like Klein and I think that is part of why they are playing both. IMHO if Sams had continued to play like he did vs OSU/BU there is a high likelihood he would be injured by now.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

No doubt that 2nd quarter stretch was bad offensive football, but for the course of the game both QBs had good stretches that led to points. I don't think we win that game by playing only one or the other.

Waters hit one big play between about 5 H3Os and then led the final drive for the game winning field goal. Sams moved the ball consistently throughout the entire game and was only stopped once by a fumble. I think we win that game by multiple touchdowns if we don't play Waters.

If we still had Klein, would you support playing both QBs? Klein was a very similar QB to Sams.

Klein last year? No. But if it was Klein in 2011 with Waters, I think both would've played.

While similar, I don't think Sams is built to take the punishment of running power football like Klein and I think that is part of why they are playing both. IMHO if Sams had continued to play like he did vs OSU/BU there is a high likelihood he would be injured by now.

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

[kso_FAN]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

That team just controlled the ball and the clock enough to ensure that every game was close enough to give them a chance. That's not really getting lucky. It's just great coaching. Saying we would have 7 or 8 wins might have been too generous, really. Looking back on the schedule, we had several really close games that probably would have gotten ugly if we had replaced a long sustained drive by Klein with a 3 and out. Even replacing a long touchdown drive with a 70 yard TD bomb would have hurt us.

[steve dave]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

I hope our coaches play the better of the two. the "wins the job" talking point is the retardediest talking point on this message board.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

I hope our coaches play the better of the two. the "wins the job" talking point is the retardediest talking point on this message board.

I agree. If Jake had "won the job" this year, I kind of doubt we would be going to a bowl game.

[Emo EMAW]

I just don't understand why we can't read option every team to death with Sams/Hubert.  Seems so simple. 

[steve dave]

sams just didn't win the job. it's his own fault because it can't be the coaches obviously. the stats show he's much better but clearly he's not for a mysterious reason we are not allowed to know. YOU UNGRATEFUL FUCKS THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN LHC Bill Snyder ABOUT FOOTBALL?

[kso_FAN]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

That team just controlled the ball and the clock enough to ensure that every game was close enough to give them a chance. That's not really getting lucky. It's just great coaching. Saying we would have 7 or 8 wins might have been too generous, really. Looking back on the schedule, we had several really close games that probably would have gotten ugly if we had replaced a long sustained drive by Klein with a 3 and out. Even replacing a long touchdown drive with a 70 yard TD bomb would have hurt us.

But luck is still in play, especially regarding turnovers, which is probably the biggest key in our losses.

1st, both QBs have been turnover prone and that is the difference in both of these guys from Klein.

2nd, we haven't forced TOs at the same clip. Even last week's game is a perfect example, our defense (as bad as it played) still made two really good plays on the ball and forced fumbles and in both cases OU recovered. There are lots of things that a defense can do to create TOs, but in many cases its luck, especially in the bounce of the ball and recovering fumbles. Even OU's INT was more of a mistake on their part (the receiver ran the wrong route) than the defensive scheme we were in.

[Skipper44]

I just don't understand why we can't read option every team to death with Sams/Hubert.  Seems so simple.

I agree but when we did run it early in the year, Sams made some mistakes when reading the unblocked defender.   I think it is Waters fewer mistakes at this kind of decision making that have made him the starter and get most of the snaps.

[Emo EMAW]

I just don't understand why we can't read option every team to death with Sams/Hubert.  Seems so simple.

I agree but when we did run it early in the year, Sams made some mistakes when reading the unblocked defender.   I think it is Waters fewer mistakes at this kind of decision making that have made him the starter and get most of the snaps.

Like UT/OSU/Baylor?  I didn't get a chance to watch those games.

[Skipper44]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

That team just controlled the ball and the clock enough to ensure that every game was close enough to give them a chance. That's not really getting lucky. It's just great coaching. Saying we would have 7 or 8 wins might have been too generous, really. Looking back on the schedule, we had several really close games that probably would have gotten ugly if we had replaced a long sustained drive by Klein with a 3 and out. Even replacing a long touchdown drive with a 70 yard TD bomb would have hurt us.

But luck is still in play, especially regarding turnovers, which is probably the biggest key in our losses.

1st, both QBs have been turnover prone and that is the difference in both of these guys from Klein.

2nd, we haven't forced TOs at the same clip. Even last week's game is a perfect example, our defense (as bad as it played) still made two really good plays on the ball and forced fumbles and in both cases OU recovered. There are lots of things that a defense can do to create TOs, but in many cases its luck, especially in the bounce of the ball and recovering fumbles. Even OU's INT was more of a mistake on their part (the receiver ran the wrong route) than the defensive scheme we were in.

What are we going to do next year when Hubert is gone and they have to play another RB?  They clearly have never trusted Robinson, Leverett has yet to see the field and I cannot imagine them playing a true freshman in Warmack. 

We seriously will be a spread team with Curry Sexton as our 2nd best receiving option.

[MakeItRain]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

No doubt that 2nd quarter stretch was bad offensive football, but for the course of the game both QBs had good stretches that led to points. I don't think we win that game by playing only one or the other.

come on

[michigancat]

Sams just made too many mistakes with reads in that game where he ran for 200 yards to justify playing much.

[MakeItRain]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

No doubt that 2nd quarter stretch was bad offensive football, but for the course of the game both QBs had good stretches that led to points. I don't think we win that game by playing only one or the other.

Waters hit one big play between about 5 H3Os and then led the final drive for the game winning field goal. Sams moved the ball consistently throughout the entire game and was only stopped once by a fumble. I think we win that game by multiple touchdowns if we don't play Waters.

If we still had Klein, would you support playing both QBs? Klein was a very similar QB to Sams.

Klein last year? No. But if it was Klein in 2011 with Waters, I think both would've played.

While similar, I don't think Sams is built to take the punishment of running power football like Klein and I think that is part of why they are playing both. IMHO if Sams had continued to play like he did vs OSU/BU there is a high likelihood he would be injured by now.

Yeah the moron coaches calling the same 3 run plays between the tackles will eventually get him killed, you're right about that _FENCE

[kslim]

mods we need an icon by each posters name that shows what team they are on. i need to know who to talk crap too, ksu_fence is exempt

[steve dave]

mods we need an icon by each posters name that shows what team they are on. i need to know who to talk crap too, ksu_fence is exempt

I'm on #teamCATfootball

[kslim]

mods we need an icon by each posters name that shows what team they are on. i need to know who to talk crap too, ksu_fence is exempt

I'm on #teamCATfootball

thats funny because it looks like you are on team stuffing to me

[steve dave]

mods we need an icon by each posters name that shows what team they are on. i need to know who to talk crap too, ksu_fence is exempt

I'm on #teamCATfootball

thats funny because it looks like you are on team stuffing to me

that's a different game

[kslim]

mods we need an icon by each posters name that shows what team they are on. i need to know who to talk crap too, ksu_fence is exempt

I'm on #teamCATfootball

thats funny because it looks like you are on team stuffing to me

that's a different game

oh so now its a game?

[Skipper44]

Sams just made too many mistakes with reads in that game where he ran for 200 yards to justify playing much.

I think they had virtually given up on running zone read with Sams by the Baylor game

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

That team just controlled the ball and the clock enough to ensure that every game was close enough to give them a chance. That's not really getting lucky. It's just great coaching. Saying we would have 7 or 8 wins might have been too generous, really. Looking back on the schedule, we had several really close games that probably would have gotten ugly if we had replaced a long sustained drive by Klein with a 3 and out. Even replacing a long touchdown drive with a 70 yard TD bomb would have hurt us.

But luck is still in play, especially regarding turnovers, which is probably the biggest key in our losses.

1st, both QBs have been turnover prone and that is the difference in both of these guys from Klein.

2nd, we haven't forced TOs at the same clip. Even last week's game is a perfect example, our defense (as bad as it played) still made two really good plays on the ball and forced fumbles and in both cases OU recovered. There are lots of things that a defense can do to create TOs, but in many cases its luck, especially in the bounce of the ball and recovering fumbles. Even OU's INT was more of a mistake on their part (the receiver ran the wrong route) than the defensive scheme we were in.

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

[Emo EMAW]

Do you think we would have won 10 games in 2011 playing both? I think we would have won 7 or 8.

Possibly, that team was extremely lucky.

For the record, I hope one guy wins the job next year and our coaches go with it so we can build a more complete offense around one guy, rather than try to morph an offense around 2 guys with different skills.

That team just controlled the ball and the clock enough to ensure that every game was close enough to give them a chance. That's not really getting lucky. It's just great coaching. Saying we would have 7 or 8 wins might have been too generous, really. Looking back on the schedule, we had several really close games that probably would have gotten ugly if we had replaced a long sustained drive by Klein with a 3 and out. Even replacing a long touchdown drive with a 70 yard TD bomb would have hurt us.

But luck is still in play, especially regarding turnovers, which is probably the biggest key in our losses.

1st, both QBs have been turnover prone and that is the difference in both of these guys from Klein.

2nd, we haven't forced TOs at the same clip. Even last week's game is a perfect example, our defense (as bad as it played) still made two really good plays on the ball and forced fumbles and in both cases OU recovered. There are lots of things that a defense can do to create TOs, but in many cases its luck, especially in the bounce of the ball and recovering fumbles. Even OU's INT was more of a mistake on their part (the receiver ran the wrong route) than the defensive scheme we were in.

Sams' turnover issues happen mostly when we are in a hole and he has to move the ball quickly down the field. Klein was also horrible in those situations. See 2011 OU and 2012 Baylor. It's sort of an unfair criticism, imo, because in both cases this year, Waters came into the game to dig the hole that Sams had to try to get out of. If he were out there all game turning the ball over and pissing away drives, the criticism would be far more fair, imo.

Also Fiesta Bowl.  But yes great point(s) NK.

[kso_FAN]

mods we need an icon by each posters name that shows what team they are on. i need to know who to talk crap too, ksu_fence is exempt

I'm on #teamCATfootball