QB rotation stunting Sams growth

[steve dave]

_fan just doesn't like to ever disagree with coaching decisions and is overall very non critical. that's really all it is. if the adv stats agree with what the coaches are doing then he's pro adv stats and if they don't then he's fence.

I know, but I don't like it 

[Dr Rick Daris]

_fan just doesn't like to ever disagree with coaching decisions and is overall very non critical. that's really all it is. if the adv stats agree with what the coaches are doing then he's pro adv stats and if they don't then he's fence.

Maybe, but not really. I think both QBs have quality stats.

very non critical response.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The Broncos have at least 2 NFL-caliber QBs on the roster. The backup can't possibly suck that bad. Maybe they should both play.

Right or wrong, the offense this year was built around playing BOTH QBs. I was very against 2 QBs to start the season, but as the season progressed (and we turned it around and started winning) I came on board playing both. I'm not sold that that's how it should be next year, but this year I am fine with it.

Again, the problem last week was we were too unbalanced with QB play and Sams should have played more, especially in the 1st and 4th quarters. Besides a horrendous defensive performance (regardless of TOP, OU was destroying us up front from the beginning), the offensive gameplan to start the game was terrible. The game should have started with a game plan for Sams running and throwing and eating clock against OU's defense into the wind and NOT allowing OU to run out to a 14-0 lead. Then in the 2nd quarter unleash the passing game plan that we had in place against an OU defense that was clearly unprepared to stop a vertical passing game, and that part of our offense is best suited for Waters. JMHO.

The way Bill uses them makes his playcalling very predictable, and it just doesn't work. Big plays only win games if you can move the ball on the rest of your plays, too. It's like Bill forgot how he managed to win so many games over the last 2 years by keeping his below average defense off the field. Waters absolutely cannot be successful without Sams coming in to move the ball for him several times per game. Sams would have been far more successful in the games he played the majority of without Waters coming in to go 3 and out a few times and turn the ball over inside his own 5 yard line. So yeah, if Waters is going to start, Bill had better have a 2 QB system. The real question is "why start Waters?"

[Dr Rick Daris]

also and just to put my two cents out there, i don't mind waters at all. like, if we didn't have sams then i'd be pretty content going into next year with a senior waters to see what we could do and i think he'd do really well. but we do have sams and so it just makes me so, so sad/mad. you can hate the situation and still think waters is dece.

[steve dave]

also and just to put my two cents out there, i don't mind waters at all. like, if we didn't have sams then i'd be pretty content going into next year with a senior waters to see what we could do and i think he'd do really well. but we do have sams and so it just makes me so, so sad/mad. you can hate the situation and still think waters is dece.

exactly this

[8manpick]

The Broncos have at least 2 NFL-caliber QBs on the roster. The backup can't possibly suck that bad. Maybe they should both play.

Right or wrong, the offense this year was built around playing BOTH QBs. I was very against 2 QBs to start the season, but as the season progressed (and we turned it around and started winning playing against the bottom half of the Big XII) I came on board playing both. I'm not sold that that's how it should be next year, but this year I am fine with it.

[Trim]

Right or wrong, the offense this year was built around playing BOTH QBs. I was very against 2 QBs to start the season, but as the season progressed (and we turned it around and started winning) I came on board playing both. I'm not sold that that's how it should be next year, but this year I am fine with it.

You were right and they were wrong all along, _FAN.  As the season progressed, we played the bad teams until last week when we had to play one of the good teams again.  That's all.

But I'm sure after what happened this year, next year will be different.

[CNS]

It doesn't seem like our offense was built around either qb to me, let alone both of them.   

[kso_FAN]

you can hate the situation and still think waters is dece.

I'm fine with that.

The way Bill uses them makes his playcalling very predictable, and it just doesn't work. Big plays only win games if you can move the ball on the rest of your plays, too. It's like Bill forgot how he managed to win so many games over the last 2 years by keeping his below average defense off the field. Waters absolutely cannot be successful without Sams coming in to move the ball for him several times per game. Sams would have been far more successful in the games he played the majority of without Waters coming in to go 3 and out a few times and turn the ball over inside his own 5 yard line. So yeah, if Waters is going to start, Bill had better have a 2 QB system. The real question is "why start Waters?"

I agree that's the tough part of playing both and its difficult to get into an offensive rhythm. I think the staff managed that well during the middle of the season. Against OU I think they gave up on running the ball very early in the ballgame (that's what Snyder said anyway) and that led to them playing Waters much more, which I think was a mistake. I don't think they really gave running the ball a fair chance in that game.

After the OSU/BU games, I don't think the staff thought we had enough offense in place with just Sams to win games, just like after the Texas game I don't think the staff thought we had enough offense with just Waters, and that's why they went to playing both. I don't think they trust Sams with running a lot of option or the drop back passing game and I don't think they trust Waters with the power QB running game, all of which are big parts of the offense (and were with Klein as well). So yes, there is some predictability on offense for us, but I still think the best chance of winning comes from playing both. I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

[Dr Rick Daris]

also i think it's funny that after the osu and bu games people wanted to jump all over sams for not pulling out the wins but the same people aren't doing it with waters. can't have it only one way. also, ou at home was the easiest of the three and by far our least competitive.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The Broncos have at least 2 NFL-caliber QBs on the roster. The backup can't possibly suck that bad. Maybe they should both play.

Right or wrong, the offense this year was built around playing BOTH QBs. I was very against 2 QBs to start the season, but as the season progressed (and we turned it around and started winning playing against the bottom half of the Big XII) I came on board playing both. I'm not sold that that's how it should be next year, but this year I am fine with it.

We did lose to NDSU before that happened. We probably wouldn't even be a bowl team if Bill didn't decide to start giving Sams more snaps. I don't think the takeaway should be that playing both QBs makes us just mediocre enough to go bowling, though. It should be that Sams is just better than Waters and that we would have had a pretty nice season if he had been the starter from day 1 and taken all the snaps.

[steve dave]

also i think it's funny that after the osu and bu games people wanted to jump all over sams for not pulling out the wins but the same people aren't doing it with waters. can't have it only one way. also, ou at home was the easiest of the three and by far our least competitive.

I'm very lol at the fans for this but I'm very angry at the coaches for it. they should know better.

[CNS]

We had enough O stats against OU to win.  That was a D issue, imo.

[steve dave]

We had enough O stats against OU to win.  That was a D issue, imo.

TOP and TOs, tho

[michigancat]

We had enough O stats against OU to win. 

Obviously we didn't.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

[kso_FAN]

We had enough O stats against OU to win.  That was a D issue, imo.

TOP and TOs, tho

Its a mix. The first quarter TOP was even, but we played terrible on offense and didn't score. Second quarter we had the ball for a little over 3 minutes and scored on every drive.

Defense gave up 60% conversions on 3rd down and one 4th down conversion.

The terrible sequence to start the 4th quarter with the 3 and out setting up OU inside our 5 and then the pick 6 were really bad, and on both drives Sams should have had snaps.

[kso_FAN]

I think the TCU game plan (against a good defense) showed that both can play successfully and the ratio of how they played was about right.

You mean the game where we jumped out to a 14-0 lead and then the next 4 drives led by Waters resulted in 0 points and only 13 plays run, allowing TCU to come back and take the lead?

No doubt that 2nd quarter stretch was bad offensive football, but for the course of the game both QBs had good stretches that led to points. I don't think we win that game by playing only one or the other.

[michigancat]

I think we didn't give Hubert's Wildcat a fair chance. Obviously the coaches saw something there that we can't so we should trust them.

[kso_FAN]

I think we didn't give Hubert's Wildcat a fair chance. Obviously the coaches saw something there that we can't so we should trust them.

No.

[CNS]

We had enough O stats against OU to win.  That was a D issue, imo.

TOP and TOs, tho

Yeah, our offense is no where near perfect, and the only reason it scored enough, imo, to win the game is because OU's secondary was absolute trash.  If their secondary wasn't so abhorrent, I would be where I normally am.  That said, we scored 38pts.  Our D sucked huge balls.  If our run D could do anything, we would be fine.  This is why I am so excited about the Dericott(sp) twitter'cruiting of the other lb's.  Our D could be night and day from this year in a very good way and allowing us to win games like the OU one.

[steve dave]

I think we didn't give Hubert's Wildcat a fair chance. Obviously the coaches saw something there that we can't so we should trust them.

if waters is so good how did he not win the job from Hubert, tho?

[420seriouscat69]

I think we didn't give Hubert's Wildcat a fair chance. Obviously the coaches saw something there that we can't so we should trust them.

if waters is so good how did he not win the job from Hubert, tho?

[_33]

You guys know that I'm not much of an advanced stats guy.  To be honest, I don't know what they are.  But what I do use is something I refer to as the eyeball test.  And when I use my eyeballs I can see that Sams is a superior QB.  Which confirms what my gut had already told me before the season.  And if what you guys are saying is true then his advanced stats are also superior.  So to sum up:

gut:  Sams
eyeball test: Sams
Stats:  Sams

[Rage Against the McKee]

We had enough O stats against OU to win.  That was a D issue, imo.

TOP and TOs, tho

Yeah, our offense is no where near perfect, and the only reason it scored enough, imo, to win the game is because OU's secondary was absolute trash.  If their secondary wasn't so abhorrent, I would be where I normally am.  That said, we scored 38pts.  Our D sucked huge balls.  If our run D could do anything, we would be fine.  This is why I am so excited about the Dericott(sp) twitter'cruiting of the other lb's.  Our D could be night and day from this year in a very good way and allowing us to win games like the OU one.

We didn't have enough TOP for 38 points to be enough to beat any good team.