Unsettled Waters

[catzacker]

It doesn't matter who is qb.  They both eff up enough in their own special way that they never gain seperation.  I mean, great, sams ran all over osu and baylor....but he still mumped up enough and we lost. Awesome, sams has a high qb rating....what game did he win?

[kso_FAN]

It doesn't matter who is qb.  They both eff up enough in their own special way that they never gain seperation.  I mean, great, sams ran all over osu and baylor....but he still mumped up enough and we lost. Awesome, sams has a high qb rating....what game did he win?

Yeah. Neither guy acts like they really want the job when given the opportunity.

[kougar24]

Teams win games, zacker. And shitty opponents.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I get this board likes Sams and I really do also. But given the last 4 games I don't think he has separated himself. And frankly many this board gives him free passes that I've never seen them give any other K-State player or coach.

If they're even, Sams should be given the job full time. He's younger and has a far higher ceiling. It makes no sense to waste this extremely valuable practice time on Waters, who is at his ceiling already.

I get this, but more so next year. With Lockett and Thompson I think the desire to make Waters work is a bit more appealing to the staff.

That makes no sense. Lockett and Thompson benefit Sams as much as they do Waters. Why wouldn't you let them help accelerate Sams' passing development? Our future with Waters is forgettable at best.

Sams hasn't shown the ability to make the throws where Lockett and Thompson are difference makers, specifically deep post routes and fades down the sidelines. I appreciate Sams ability to throw underneath routes with accuracy, but not throwing those vertical routes really limits the offense when he is in the game.

Did you just not see his deep throw to Thompson in the endzone?

[michigancat]

It doesn't matter who is qb.  They both eff up enough in their own special way that they never gain seperation.  I mean, great, sams ran all over osu and baylor....but he still mumped up enough and we lost. Awesome, sams has a high qb rating....what game did he win?

Yeah. Neither guy acts like they really want the job when given the opportunity.

I mean, it really sounded like you thought Sams was the best option after OSU.

http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3088

[catzacker]

Teams win games, zacker. And shitty opponents.

Teams may win but QB's get blamed.  And waters took his fair share of criticism (rightfully so) for his eff ups earlier. Sams deserves the same critique.  He hasn't done enough to not make it still a competition.  For all the good, there is just enough bad.  Same with waters. It is depressing, actually, that sams hasn't been able to take the job.  This is his 3rd year of college all within the program.

[kso_FAN]

It doesn't matter who is qb.  They both eff up enough in their own special way that they never gain seperation.  I mean, great, sams ran all over osu and baylor....but he still mumped up enough and we lost. Awesome, sams has a high qb rating....what game did he win?

Yeah. Neither guy acts like they really want the job when given the opportunity.

I mean, it really sounded like you thought Sams was the best option after OSU.

http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3088

I did, but I didn't like that he made a bad throw at the end of the Baylor game, essentially the same mistake that he made against OSU. That said, I still had Sams ahead going into the WVU game, but I thought Waters played a great 2nd half and pulled even. Then my point in this thread was that Waters had an opportunity to move ahead and take the job, but he didn't.

I've said several times that I think Snyder will continue to play both, but I think we'd be better if one guy would win the job outright. I don't think either guy has done enough to lose it, but neither has done enough to win it either.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Don't have the game tivo'd to rewatch, but did SAMs make the right read on the Rose touchdown?  Watching it live, I thought SAMs would have walked into the endzone had he kept it.  Instead of following the blocking, Rose had to cutback into the lane that SAMs would've gone through.


Meanwhile, Waters completed a few big plays, but plays that would have gone for much more yardage had they been better throws.

It was the wrong read, but with a 30+ point lead at the end of the game, I really don't want the best player on the team carrying the footall. Plus, it was nice to see Rose score a touchdown.

[kso_FAN]

Teams win games, zacker. And shitty opponents.

Teams may win but QB's get blamed.  And waters took his fair share of criticism (rightfully so) for his eff ups earlier. Sams deserves the same critique.  He hasn't done enough to not make it still a competition.  For all the good, there is just enough bad.  Same with waters. It is depressing, actually, that sams hasn't been able to take the job.  This is his 3rd year of college all within the program.

Agree with all of this 100%.

[pvegs]

Quote from Sams on the pass to Tramaine

"I was getting flushed out of the pocket and I just have tremendous faith in both of those guys," Sams said. "I saw it was really two-on-two and honestly, I was going to Lockett, but it went to Tramaine somehow."

This quote is an example of why I don't think Sams ever beats out Waters outright for the starting spot. Great play by Thompson saved an ill-advised throw, and Sams' his fifth int. on the season. Love Sams, but his decision making HAS to get better before he is trusted to run an offense. I'm sure this play with continue to bother Snyder for the remainder of the season. To me, Waters seems as if he is beginning to turn the corner, and is gaining confidence in his abilities to run the offense.

Either way, I'm hopeful that one of the two QB's takes the job outright next season. If Waters takes the spot, I like the rest of the K-State faithful, would like to see Sams move to WR and run occasional wildcat plays. Kid is a freak athlete, and we can't afford to keep him on the sidelines for half of the game.

Going to be interesting to see how both of these guys play once competition increases next week against Tech and OU in a few weeks.

EMAW!

I agree with you overall, but situationally speaking, the Sams prayer wasn't that bad of a decision.  There was a only a minute to play in the half, it was a long throw deep into ISU territory on 3rd down.  It wasn't like he was throwing from his own goal with the game on the line or the pass had a chance to be returned for a pick 6.  He was just trying to make a play in a low leverage situation and it paid off.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The decision was fine. The execution was just abysmal.

[kso_FAN]

The decision was fine. The execution was just abysmal.

Yeah, I had no problem with the decision to throw there, but it was an awful throw. Thompson said he thought it was to Lockett, then saw it sailing and he knew he had to play defensive back at that point.

And the issue is the inaccuracy on this throw is becoming what he does far too often on these types of throws. Several of his other INTs are very similar; he's just way off on throws down the field when he's on the move.

[CNS]

You guys know how Bill petty much just puts sams in when we are running?  I wish we did that with Jake, only just putting him in when we are going to throw a 30yd bomb.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[michigancat]

In all seriousness, I think the reason Snyder (and most in this thread) don't think Sams should have received the majority of snaps after Baylor and OSU is because that is an admission that Snyder made a big rough ridin' mistake with his use of Sams over the first 4 games.

(zack, on the other hand, is just being zack) ()

[kso_FAN]

In all seriousness, I think the reason Snyder (and most in this thread) don't think Sams should have received the majority of snaps after Baylor and OSU is because that is an admission that Snyder made a big rough ridin' mistake with his use of Sams over the first 4 games.

(zack, on the other hand, is just being zack) ()

Meh. I think the main reason Sams didn't play early was because he missed multiple practices with an injury.

[michigancat]

In all seriousness, I think the reason Snyder (and most in this thread) don't think Sams should have received the majority of snaps after Baylor and OSU is because that is an admission that Snyder made a big rough ridin' mistake with his use of Sams over the first 4 games.

(zack, on the other hand, is just being zack) ()

Meh. I think the main reason Sams didn't play early was because he missed multiple practices with an injury.

That was still a big mistake.

[AndrewVonLintel]

Guys we are 2nd in the Big 12 in yards per attempt.

Dumb turnovers are the only reason we are not 7-1 or 6-2.

Turnover margin -6 (9th in conference)  KU is +5 for the love of OregonSmock.

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=805448

[AndrewVonLintel]

Guys we are 2nd in the Big 12 in yards per play.

Dumb turnovers are the only reason we are not 7-1 or 6-2.

Turnover margin -6 (9th in conference)  KU is +5 for the love of OregonSmock.

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=805448

[kougar24]

Teams win games, zacker. And shitty opponents.

Teams may win but QB's get blamed.  And waters took his fair share of criticism (rightfully so) for his eff ups earlier. Sams deserves the same critique.  He hasn't done enough to not make it still a competition.  For all the good, there is just enough bad.  Same with waters. It is depressing, actually, that sams hasn't been able to take the job.  This is his 3rd year of college all within the program.

Agree with all of this 100%.

AND IF BOTH PLAYERS ARE EVEN RIGHT NOW, SAMS -- THE YOUNGER PLAYER WITH A HIGHER CEILING -- SHOULD GET THE SNAPS NOW, FOR THE FUTURE OF THE PROGRAM.

For heaven's sake, guys.

[steve dave]

the stats say they are not even

[star seed 7]

the stats say they are not even

i don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this very important fact.

[kougar24]

the stats say they are not even

Very true. Notice I did say "if."

[kim carnes]

the stats say they are not even

i don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this very important fact.

U know what I always say?  The numbers don't lie

[kougar24]

the stats say they are not even

i don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this very important fact.

U know what I always say?  The numbers don't lie

You should trademark that before someone steals it!

[MakeItRain]

This is so rough ridin' stupid it hurts to read.  Sams (more importantly the rest of the team) will benefit tremendously if we make a bowl game and he gets extra practice. Throwing the season so he can have unlimited fuckups all because you think his ceiling is higher than the #1 juco qb and 1 additional year of eligibility helps no one. He isn't anywhere near Waters as far as throwing the ball, this isn't debatable nor is it a function of "opportunity".  Waters so-called poor throwing day is more of a function of MiR slanted opinion based on what he watched from the 35 row of the stadium than anything actually true.  He made some great throws down field as evidenced by his rediculous 16 yard per completion performance.


All of you shut up.

Much of what you said I can agree with, but there is no question that Waters missed multiple throws yesterday to open receivers, especially in the first half. His day should have been 250+ yards with at least 2 touchdowns if he is a little more accurate.

He missed a couple throws, he didn't have a poor throwing day.

I'm not sure why I'm even addressing this because the most slanted component of this conversation is the effort you and eastcat are making to swim up stream. Waters was 9-15 157 yds and 0 TDs. Of the 9 catches, at least 3 of them were off target for the expectations of a BCS starting quarterback, that 3 is very conservative. So what quarterback would be deemed successful by hitting their target 6 out of 15 times? This is a pretty basic and black and white premise but I'm sure you will find some way to turn this into Anti-Waters. I was complimentary of Waters last week, was I slanting for the black qb then too?