Separate but equal...

[sonofdaxjones]

You can't catch voter fraud if you make not real attempt to even look for it.

In KC, a political machine lived off voter fraud.   Harry Truman survived his early days in politics off of voter fraud.   

Oh, and the, "we'll catch it after the vote" is a load of crap as well.

[Dugout DickStone]

You can't catch voter fraud if you make not real attempt to even look for it.

In KC, a political machine lived off voter fraud.   Harry Truman survived his early days in politics off of voter fraud.   

Oh, and the, "we'll catch it after the vote" is a load of crap as well.

Still can't enact a poll tax. 

[michigancat]

I believe the number of people who want to vote but don't have an ID is about as small as the number of people who are trying to commit voter fraud by voting for someone else.

Two minuscule problems blown way out of proportion by partisans hacks.

well said moderate friend

you'd think true conservative/libertarians would err on the side of freedom to vote.

[Paul Moscow]

I believe the number of people who want to vote but don't have an ID is about as small as the number of people who are trying to commit voter fraud by voting for someone else.

Two minuscule problems blown way out of proportion by partisans hacks.

well said moderate friend

you'd think true conservative/libertarians would err on the side of freedom to vote.

That's absolutely not true. 15,000 Kansans are currently in limbo because of the new proof-of-citizenship rule while even the most outrageous claims of voter fraud (mostly unsubstantiated) are a few hundred in the past 10 years.

You should reconsider what being a "moderate" truly is because its certainly not taking the middle position or creating a false equivalency where none exists.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I believe the number of people who want to vote but don't have an ID is about as small as the number of people who are trying to commit voter fraud by voting for someone else.

Two minuscule problems blown way out of proportion by partisans hacks.

well said moderate friend

you'd think true conservative/libertarians would err on the side of freedom to vote.

That's absolutely not true. 15,000 Kansans are currently in limbo because of the new proof-of-citizenship rule while even the most outrageous claims of voter fraud (mostly unsubstantiated) are a few hundred in the past 10 years.

You should reconsider what being a "moderate" truly is because its certainly not taking the middle position or creating a false equivalency where none exists.

I think you're missing the point. This has less to do with outright voter "fraud" than tamping down on the number of lazy morons who are bused in to vote Democrat. Let's not kid ourselves. The Republicans absolutely have a political reason for doing this, and the Democrats are opposing to it purely because of politics. This is a frontal assault on the Democrat machine which relies heavily on the dumbass demographic.

[star seed 7]

i've never in my life seen a voter bus.

[Paul Moscow]

I believe the number of people who want to vote but don't have an ID is about as small as the number of people who are trying to commit voter fraud by voting for someone else.

Two minuscule problems blown way out of proportion by partisans hacks.

well said moderate friend

you'd think true conservative/libertarians would err on the side of freedom to vote.

That's absolutely not true. 15,000 Kansans are currently in limbo because of the new proof-of-citizenship rule while even the most outrageous claims of voter fraud (mostly unsubstantiated) are a few hundred in the past 10 years.

You should reconsider what being a "moderate" truly is because its certainly not taking the middle position or creating a false equivalency where none exists.

I think you're missing the point. This has less to do with outright voter "fraud" than tamping down on the number of lazy morons who are bused in to vote Democrat. Let's not kid ourselves. The Republicans absolutely have a political reason for doing this, and the Democrats are opposing to it purely because of politics. This is a frontal assault on the Democrat machine which relies heavily on the dumbass demographic.

Yes, the movement in Kansas is done under the guise that voter fraud occurs and Kobach has taken it a step further by fusing it with anti-immigration paranoia, "In Kansas, the illegal registration of alien voters has become pervasive," - Kobach.

As can be seen in any respectable, non-bankrolled study though these laws prohibit disproportionately the elderly, young voters, minorities, low-income voters and has now gone so far as to entangle normal Kansas citizens (the great un-bused) who now sit on registration rolls 17,000 names long, unable to vote - a cure far worse than the disease. As has become typical the ultra-right will ultimately drop a nuke on the whole thing regardless of the harm it will do to themselves both in terms of ensnarling their own voters in the disjointed voter suppression effort and galvanizing the disenfranchised vote in the fallout, but that's just an opinion.

As an aside, any republican taking the "dumbass demographic" argument while their party seeks quickly to eliminate college ID's as an acceptable form of ID while rushing in concealed weapons permits to take their place is not in a position to claim intellectual superiority.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I believe the number of people who want to vote but don't have an ID is about as small as the number of people who are trying to commit voter fraud by voting for someone else.

Two minuscule problems blown way out of proportion by partisans hacks.

well said moderate friend

you'd think true conservative/libertarians would err on the side of freedom to vote.

That's absolutely not true. 15,000 Kansans are currently in limbo because of the new proof-of-citizenship rule while even the most outrageous claims of voter fraud (mostly unsubstantiated) are a few hundred in the past 10 years.

You should reconsider what being a "moderate" truly is because its certainly not taking the middle position or creating a false equivalency where none exists.

I think you're missing the point. This has less to do with outright voter "fraud" than tamping down on the number of lazy morons who are bused in to vote Democrat. Let's not kid ourselves. The Republicans absolutely have a political reason for doing this, and the Democrats are opposing to it purely because of politics. This is a frontal assault on the Democrat machine which relies heavily on the dumbass demographic.

Yes, the movement in Kansas is done under the guise that voter fraud occurs and Kobach has taken it a step further by fusing it with anti-immigration paranoia, "In Kansas, the illegal registration of alien voters has become pervasive," - Kobach.

As can be seen in any respectable, non-bankrolled study though these laws prohibit disproportionately the elderly, young voters, minorities, low-income voters and has now gone so far as to entangle normal Kansas citizens (the great un-bused) who now sit on registration rolls 17,000 names long, unable to vote - a cure far worse than the disease. As has become typical the ultra-right will ultimately drop a nuke on the whole thing regardless of the harm it will do to themselves both in terms of ensnarling their own voters in the disjointed voter suppression effort and galvanizing the disenfranchised vote in the fallout, but that's just an opinion.

As an aside, any republican taking the "dumbass demographic" argument while their party seeks quickly to eliminate college ID's as an acceptable form of ID while rushing in concealed weapons permits to take their place is not in a position to claim intellectual superiority.

I haven't been following this Kansas voter ID legislation, but have a couple of questions I hope you can answer.

Who are these 17,000 and why can't they register to vote and why?

Why would a college ID be enough to vote since you don't need to be a citizen to have one? I understand why the conceal carry would work since you need an FBI background check to get one.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

As can be seen in any respectable, non-bankrolled study though these laws prohibit disproportionately the elderly, young voters, minorities, low-income voters

Any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that young voters and low-income voters are, generally speaking, lazy dumbasses, so I'm all in favor of suppressing the hell out of their votes. Again, if you are literally too lazy, stupid, or disengaged from society to have one form of ID, you should not be voting (and if that screens out a few Red Dawn off-the-grid patriots, so be it). If we had fewer lazy dumbasses going to the polls, we'd have fewer liberals in office, and any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that is a very good thing.

Are there better solutions? Sure. We could raise the voting age to 30 unless you're in the military, maybe go back to requiring property ownership, etc. before being allowed to vote, but requiring an ID is at least a start to screening out at least a few lazy dumbasses.

As for minorities, do you really think so little of them that you question whether they even have one form of ID? Sounds kinda racist to me...

As for the elderly, they'll be just fine. They have nothing better to do than go sit in a DMV to get an ID, to the extent they don't have one.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Well, K-S-U has just successfully swayed me on an issue that I couldn't care less about to now adamantly oppose voter ID laws.

[Paul Moscow]

As can be seen in any respectable, non-bankrolled study though these laws prohibit disproportionately the elderly, young voters, minorities, low-income voters

Any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that young voters and low-income voters are, generally speaking, lazy dumbasses, so I'm all in favor of suppressing the hell out of their votes. Again, if you are literally too lazy, stupid, or disengaged from society to have one form of ID, you should not be voting (and if that screens out a few Red Dawn off-the-grid patriots, so be it). If we had fewer lazy dumbasses going to the polls, we'd have fewer liberals in office, and any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that is a very good thing.

Are there better solutions? Sure. We could raise the voting age to 30 unless you're in the military, maybe go back to requiring property ownership, etc. before being allowed to vote, but requiring an ID is at least a start to screening out at least a few lazy dumbasses.

As for minorities, do you really think so little of them that you question whether they even have one form of ID? Sounds kinda racist to me...

As for the elderly, they'll be just fine. They have nothing better to do than go sit in a DMV to get an ID, to the extent they don't have one.

Perhaps its not democrats you have a problem but democracy as a whole that bothers you.

In either case, there's plenty of other countries whose ideas and policies might closely resemble your own.  I'd suggest checking out ones that begin with"The People's Republic of" first so as to work your way down from the top.

[Dugout DickStone]

A lot of concealed carry holders are dangerous psychos, I'd prefer they not vote.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

As can be seen in any respectable, non-bankrolled study though these laws prohibit disproportionately the elderly, young voters, minorities, low-income voters

Any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that young voters and low-income voters are, generally speaking, lazy dumbasses, so I'm all in favor of suppressing the hell out of their votes. Again, if you are literally too lazy, stupid, or disengaged from society to have one form of ID, you should not be voting (and if that screens out a few Red Dawn off-the-grid patriots, so be it). If we had fewer lazy dumbasses going to the polls, we'd have fewer liberals in office, and any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that is a very good thing.

Are there better solutions? Sure. We could raise the voting age to 30 unless you're in the military, maybe go back to requiring property ownership, etc. before being allowed to vote, but requiring an ID is at least a start to screening out at least a few lazy dumbasses.

As for minorities, do you really think so little of them that you question whether they even have one form of ID? Sounds kinda racist to me...

As for the elderly, they'll be just fine. They have nothing better to do than go sit in a DMV to get an ID, to the extent they don't have one.

Perhaps its not democrats you have a problem but democracy as a whole that bothers you.

In either case, there's plenty of other countries whose ideas and policies might closely resemble your own.  I'd suggest checking out ones that begin with"The People's Republic of" first so as to work your way down from the top.

Perhaps you are not aware that all democracies, including the very first, imposed limitations on those who could vote. Indeed, we impose restrictions to this day. We do this for a reason. As Thomas Jefferson noted, an informed citizenry is essential to the survival of the republic.

I love democracy, but I also recognize that it has one key flaw: lazy dumbasses. Or, as a wise man once said, "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." This is what tends to happen when your dead, and your dumbasses, vote.

[Tobias]

actual footage from a prototype voting booth:

[kim carnes]

FYI.  If u vote, you're not a moderate.  A true moderate cares nothing about politics.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The democrats don't like voter ID requirements because it makes it harder for them to cheat.  Republicans like voter ID requirements because it makes it harder for Democrats to cheat.  No sane person actually believes that presenting a valid ID to vote is outrageous or unduly burdensome, because it obviously is not.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Guys, did you know that KCMO hasn't issued a jaywalking ticket in 5 years?  That means nobody in KCMO has jaywalked in 5 years.

Regardless, anyone who wants to enforce the  jaywalking ordinance is clearly racist because a disproportionate percent of minorities can't figure out how to use crosswalks.

[michigancat]

Guys, did you know that KCMO hasn't issued a jaywalking ticket in 5 years?  That means nobody in KCMO has jaywalked in 5 years.

Regardless, anyone who wants to enforce the  jaywalking ordinance is clearly racist because a disproportionate percent of minorities can't figure out how to use crosswalks.

great anecdote

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Guys, did you know that KCMO hasn't issued a jaywalking ticket in 5 years?  That means nobody in KCMO has jaywalked in 5 years.

Regardless, anyone who wants to enforce the  jaywalking ordinance is clearly racist because a disproportionate percent of minorities can't figure out how to use crosswalks.

great analogy

Thanks

[ben ji]

As can be seen in any respectable, non-bankrolled study though these laws prohibit disproportionately the elderly, young voters, minorities, low-income voters

Any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that young voters and low-income voters are, generally speaking, lazy dumbasses, so I'm all in favor of suppressing the hell out of their votes. Again, if you are literally too lazy, stupid, or disengaged from society to have one form of ID, you should not be voting (and if that screens out a few Red Dawn off-the-grid patriots, so be it). If we had fewer lazy dumbasses going to the polls, we'd have fewer liberals in office, and any respectable, non-bankrolled study will tell you that is a very good thing.

Are there better solutions? Sure. We could raise the voting age to 30 unless you're in the military, maybe go back to requiring property ownership, etc. before being allowed to vote, but requiring an ID is at least a start to screening out at least a few lazy dumbasses.

As for minorities, do you really think so little of them that you question whether they even have one form of ID? Sounds kinda racist to me...

As for the elderly, they'll be just fine. They have nothing better to do than go sit in a DMV to get an ID, to the extent they don't have one.

Pro Tip- This is a mean thing to say. 

[star seed 7]

hey K-S-U, how about we compromise and just give "those" people 3/5th's of a vote?  sounds fair to me!

[sys]

That's absolutely not true. 15,000 Kansans are currently in limbo because of the new proof-of-citizenship rule while even the most outrageous claims of voter fraud (mostly unsubstantiated) are a few hundred in the past 10 years.

paul, i don't think you are making an intellectually honest argument.  you compare 15000 to a few hundred as if they are equivalent numbers when i do not believe they are.  i assume the 15000 you reference are persons who do not possess adequate documentation of their citizenship.  presumably mostly persons living on the the margins of society, elderly persons who began their lives in a time when documents were less necessary and less numerous (incidentally, i believe my paternal grandmother, who voted in every election up to her death and is not so very long gone from this world was one of these persons), and likely some citizen children of illegal immigrants.

it is not honest to consider these people as unavoidably disenfranchised by any law requiring voter proof of citizenship, when there is no reason that that should be the case.  certainly the state should bear the responsibility of assisting such persons in documenting their citizenship, but it is not an insurmountable problem.  when you balance the equation with the benefit of eliminating the hassle of voter registration (which i would argue disenfranchises more than 15k kansans) for 2+ million people and increased confidence in election legitimacy, i think it is a fairly easy choice.

i would also think that many among your 15000 would benefit in other aspects of their lives by being able to document their citizenship, and if voter id provides impetus and assistance in doing so, then that could be considered another benefit.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

hey K-S-U, how about we compromise and just give "those" people 3/5th's of a vote?  sounds fair to me!

'cause it's racist, right? I get it! Problem is, if you believe voter ID is racist, then you believe racial minorities are too stupid or lazy to obtain an ID, which is, itself, a pretty racist thing to think. Are you a racist, seven?

[OK_Cat]

k-s-u-wildcats is all about not letting dumbasses vote, but he's kind of a dumbass

[Tobias]

K-S-U-W pulling out some absolute classic reverse racism slam dunks on folks itt