Waters

[420seriouscat69]

OK. That's fair.

[kso_FAN]

jake is good. he's not great. daniel was good not great. they have different strengths and weaknesses. neither was ever going to be as good as bish, ell or colin. simple as that.

Yes. I also agree with the Beasley 2.0 comparison. Or Miller 2.0.

[MakeItRain]

This thread is so weird.

Yeah.  Hard for some people to admit that maybe they were wrong about "H30."  When is the last time our offense had more than 500 yards?  Would have to think it was a Freeman led team.  Granted, we ran upwards of 80 plays last night, but 520 yards and 1 turnover is great.

First of all the thread is 14 months old. Secondly, you too are being just as absolutist as the waters sucks crowd. Critiquing the quarterback comes with the gig, why do sensitive when it's Jake?

[420seriouscat69]

Waters is over critiqued at times tho cause of what went down with Sams. Like, so ppl still can't get over it and they hate Waters for it. That just really annoys me.

[CHONGS]

UPDATE:

Queso has as good an arm as Waters.  Waters is not terrible, but it's debatable that he's in the upper half of the Big 12 no?  Well lets see:

Clearly better:
Knight
Petty
Boykin
Trickett

Arguably better:
Garman

Clearly worse:
Webb
Swoopes
Richardson
Cozart

[kim carnes]

waters is the fifth or sixth best QB in the big 12.  that's not good enough for me.

[catzacker]

I evaluate waters on what he does and has done.  If he goes to f'ing norman and throws for 150 w/ no picks and runs for 79 (4.6ypc), and because of his effective running/throwing allows our RB's to run for 100+yds  and we walk away with a win, then i'll shut the eff up about jake rough ridin' waters. Because last year, jake threw for 348yds (2 picks) against OU but we could only run for 24 net yards. 

[MakeItRain]

Waters is over critiqued at times tho cause of what went down with Sams. Like, so ppl still can't get over it and they hate Waters for it. That just really annoys me.

Some people will be irrational about quarterbacks no matter the situation, that doesn't matter all discussion is ridiculous and should be stifled. All waters critiques generally are rebutted with, you are a hater, get over Sams.

I will say that if we lose to TCU and Waters didn't play well, the pro lifers will go nuts because Sams was a much better QB than Boykin.

[ChiComCat]

As far as Boykin goes, the new TCU OCs deserve raises and promotions for what they've done to that offense.  They instantly became a really scary team.

[wetwillie]

I'm really concerned that he is going to get injured.  He needs to slide way more and has to start avoiding getting sacked.

[kim carnes]

I'm really concerned that he is going to get injured.  He needs to slide way more and has to start avoiding getting sacked.

he'll probably get injured against tcu b/c they injure all of our players

[EMAWzified]

Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.

[CNS]

They way he turns and flops back first makes me worry about injury a lot.

[kso_FAN]

He needs to slide way more and has to start avoiding getting sacked.

Its a tough balance. I get concerned because he's overly patient while waiting for his receivers to get open on longer developing routes. Its clear he has a lot of trust in Lockett and Sexton getting open, even if it takes a long time. That said, I don't really want him pulling it down and running a lot. He's gotten a lot better with the QB running game, but I agree he can only take so many shots because he's not a big guy.

[kim carnes]

Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.

oh yeah, what has waters done?

[Kat Kid]

Jake Waters

Likes: 
understands and can execute back shoulder throw to Lockett even when he is well covered
seems like he makes a lot of reads/checks, our playcalling has been good so far this year imo
has underrated ability to read/hit hole and decent speed
is able to throw a good deep ball
is able to make throws/reads to keep sticks moving

Dislikes:
does not throw the ball away/takes a lot of sacks/does not step up in pocket to deliver balls/does not evade with the purpose of making a throw well when there is pressure
not good throwing on the run
accuracy issues in general
speed option reads are painful to watch
RZ execution is bad (offense as a whole)

He is not bad.  Waters possesses a key weakness that is terrifying -- he does not handle pressure well.  Because of this, teams will continue to dial up blitzes the rest of the year in the hopes they can force the TO.  The OU/TCU/UT/Baylor stretch will define Waters' career for better or worse.

As far as Waters' place in the Big 12 QB rankings.  I think there are 4 tiers and Jake is Tier 2.

Gunslinger Elites- Fast paced, offenses designed to put up huge points, talented receivers to support them, can make all the throws
Petty
Trickett

Solid Gamers- make most of the throws, can win a game for you with arm or feet, Surrounding cast is solid, Defense/ST support
Boykin
Knight
Waters

Any Given Saturday- can put up a monster day and beat you deep if your defense is off its game, high TD/high INT #'s, wannabe elites
Webb
Garman

Bad- these guys are bad at football and will cost their teams many more games than they will win
Swoopes
Richardson
KU QB carousel

[EMAWzified]

"oh yeah"
Dumbass fourth-grader rejoinder

Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.

oh yeah, what has waters done?

[kim carnes]

"oh yeah"
Dumbass fourth-grader rejoinder

Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.

oh yeah, what has waters done?

oh yeah?

[michigancat]

[DQ12]

This thread is so weird.

Yeah.  Hard for some people to admit that maybe they were wrong about "H30."  When is the last time our offense had more than 500 yards?  Would have to think it was a Freeman led team.  Granted, we ran upwards of 80 plays last night, but 520 yards and 1 turnover is great.

First of all the thread is 14 months old. Secondly, you too are being just as absolutist as the waters sucks crowd. Critiquing the quarterback comes with the gig, why do sensitive when it's Jake?

Well, I critiqued jake a shitload last year.  I hated him.  At one point I think I posted something like "OK, that's it, i never want him to take another snap."  And I think the Beasley comparisons are apt.  I'm just saying that Jake (and Sexton/Lockett played a pretty damn good game last night, and our offense looked as good as it's ever looked -- whether that's due mostly to waters, the receivers, the line, whatever, I'm just happy that we looked great.  Were all of his throws right on the money?  No.  But they were good enough to let our talented receivers make plays and score points. 

I never have loved Waters unconditionally, but I do love Waters and our offense in weeks where he accrues 390 yards of offense, 5 TDs and no TOs. 

[wetwillie]

As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is.  After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS.   I wouldn't put any stock on numbers put up against them. 

[DQ12]

As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is.  After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS.   I wouldn't put any stock on numbers put up against them.

Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.

[CHONGS]

As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is.  After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS.   I wouldn't put any stock on numbers put up against them.

Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.

Yes. That's why our poor offensive showing against ISU worried me (ISU has the second worst defense behind Tech).   But Waters was effective last night, and that's better than what we saw against ISU.

[kim carnes]

As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is.  After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS.   I wouldn't put any stock on
 numbers put up against them.

Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.

pfft.  what game were you watching? 

[DQ12]

As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is.  After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS.   I wouldn't put any stock on
 numbers put up against them.

Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.

pfft.  what game were you watching?

The one where we put up 45 points and the most yards we've had since 2008 ("28-28").