Author Topic: The KU Rayhawks are NOT going through a rough patch. They make Raytown, Missouri proud!  (Read 4021152 times)

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Offline kslim

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rough ridin' headshot

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

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Dlew!!


Offline DQ12

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"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

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Offline Stevesie60

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Dlew's that goofy bastard who can turn on the serious switch when necessary. Remains me of my main man, JD (that's a Scrubs reference, Dlew).

Offline kso_FAN

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You want the context?  Ok. 

First of all, Prince didn't inherit a whole lot in '06.  K-State was coming off two years that were putrid.  He started a freshman quarterback that he recruited his first year on the job.  That future pro was handing off to another future pro he recruited (johnson) and another true freshman he recruited (babyshaker).

Regarding the schedule, Prince split with Baylor.  Baylor also had 3 conference wins in '06 (the year they beat K-State), which, without looking it up, is probably right around Baylor's average Big 12 win total.  Baylor was awful in '07 and the Chizik era was terrible (although Prince lost a game to ISU), but to imply that Prince feasted on conference weaklings is outrageous.  If anything, Prince's downfall was losing games he was expected to win at the time (the loss to CU in '08 really sealed his fate).

Back then, OU and UT were superpowers and Prince played them.  I mean, Prince's biggest win was UT in '06 - they were top 5 at the time.  Prince also played two legit top 5 teams in '07 (KU and MU).  He also played at Auburn.  He also played two very good Louisville teams.  Prince played OU in '08 who went to a national title game.  All in all, K-State was playing a difficult OOC, the Big 12 had better teams during that era, and Prince certainly wasn't lucky enough to avoid those teams when they were hot.

There's been what, one legitimate top 5 team since the beginning of the Gill era (OSU '11)? 

So contextually, if we're ignoring the inherent advantages K-State's program has, Prince's job was harder than Gill's and Weis's.  The conference is worse now.  K-State's schedule was tougher back then. 

Prince played tougher teams, with a team he assembled, and won more games. 

So the point remains, even if this year and talent is 2004/2005, K-State could hire someone as inept as Prince, and the bottom is still higher than KU's best season since 2009, and even then, there would be k-state students (ahem) that would email the president of the university begging for that coach to be fired.


Offline GoodForAnother

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You want the context?  Ok. 

First of all, Prince didn't inherit a whole lot in '06.  K-State was coming off two years that were putrid.  He started a freshman quarterback that he recruited his first year on the job.  That future pro was handing off to another future pro he recruited (johnson) and another true freshman he recruited (babyshaker).

Regarding the schedule, Prince split with Baylor.  Baylor also had 3 conference wins in '06 (the year they beat K-State), which, without looking it up, is probably right around Baylor's average Big 12 win total.  Baylor was awful in '07 and the Chizik era was terrible (although Prince lost a game to ISU), but to imply that Prince feasted on conference weaklings is outrageous.  If anything, Prince's downfall was losing games he was expected to win at the time (the loss to CU in '08 really sealed his fate).

Back then, OU and UT were superpowers and Prince played them.  I mean, Prince's biggest win was UT in '06 - they were top 5 at the time.  Prince also played two legit top 5 teams in '07 (KU and MU).  He also played at Auburn.  He also played two very good Louisville teams.  Prince played OU in '08 who went to a national title game.  All in all, K-State was playing a difficult OOC, the Big 12 had better teams during that era, and Prince certainly wasn't lucky enough to avoid those teams when they were hot.

There's been what, one legitimate top 5 team since the beginning of the Gill era (OSU '11)? 

So contextually, if we're ignoring the inherent advantages K-State's program has, Prince's job was harder than Gill's and Weis's.  The conference is worse now.  K-State's schedule was tougher back then. 

Prince played tougher teams, with a team he assembled, and won more games. 

So the point remains, even if this year and talent is 2004/2005, K-State could hire someone as inept as Prince, and the bottom is still higher than KU's best season since 2009, and even then, there would be k-state students (ahem) that would email the president of the university begging for that coach to be fired.

emaw

Offline OregonSmock

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yeah at this point i don't understand how KU kids could talk bad about RP. 

it's pretty funny to hear KU kids say "well the hawks may be bad, but K-State will be really bad when OBz retires because hey just look at what Ron Prince did!"  Well Ron won more games in a single year than KU won during the 2010, 2011, and 2012 seasons combined.  Even during Prince's worst season, he still won 5 games.

Also, it's important to remember that Prince was, by all accounts, completely incompetent, but yet, he still bumbled his way into 5 wins at K-State. 

If anything, the Prince era should give confidence to K-Staters nervous about the Post Snyder days.  We can look East with relief and know that, even with Ron Prince, it will never be as bad as any one of the past 3 seasons the Jayhawks have suffered through.


There is such a thing as context.  Ron Prince had the luxury of playing in the Big 12 North and matching up against Baylor and Iowa State when they were absolute garbage.  The Big 12 is better from top to bottom now.  If your point is that the Ron Prince hire was better than the Turner Gill hire, I'd agree, but let's face it, both pretty much sucked.  Prince was a combined 0-9 against KU, MU, and NU.  That being said, Prince is still probably the 2nd-best coach in K-State football history, which is hilarious in and of itself.
You want the context?  Ok. 

So contextually, if we're ignoring the inherent advantages K-State's program has, Prince's job was harder than Gill's and Weis's.  The conference is worse now.  K-State's schedule was tougher back then. 

Prince played tougher teams, with a team he assembled, and won more games. 

So the point remains, even if this year and talent is 2004/2005, K-State could hire someone as inept as Prince, and the bottom is still higher than KU's best season since 2009, and even then, there would be k-state students (ahem) that would email the president of the university begging for that coach to be fired.


Let's take a look back at the Prince era, shall we?

2006:  wins against Eastern Illinois, Florida Atlantic, Marshall, Oklahoma State (7-6 {3-5}), Iowa State (4-8 {1-7}), Colorado (2-10 {2-6}), Texas (10-3 {6-2})

2007:  wins against San Jose St., Missouri St., Texas (10-3 {5-3}) , Colorado (6-7 {4-4}) , Baylor (3-9 {0-8})

2008:  wins against North Texas, Montana St., La Lafayette, Texas A&M (4-8 {2-6}) , Iowa State (2-10 {0-8})


So, looking back, Prince had four quality wins in his three years at K-State (Texas x2, Oklahoma State, Colorado).  By comparison, Gill had two quality wins in two years at KU (Georgia Tech and Northern Illinois).  Also, as you can see, there were multiple bad teams in the Big 12 during the Prince years (Iowa State, Colorado, Baylor, Texas A&M, Nebraska, K-State, etc.).  Right now, there's one bad team (KU).  The difference is night and day, my friend. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 01:48:08 PM by OregonSmock »

Offline GoodForAnother

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how many games do you guys think weis and gill would have won if they were at a quality football school like ksu?  I'm thinking both could've been around .500 type coaches.  they'd both get fired for it, but still.
emaw

Offline DQ12

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OS, i like you.  We get along.  But i'm not going to make any more points about the Big 12 being weaker today than it was during the 06-08, and I don't think you should try making any more points saying otherwise.  I have my reasons to think that it is (national title appearances, top 10 finishes, etc.) and you have yours (total number of teams with 6 win seasons). We can agree to disagree.

:cheers:


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline yoEMAW

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OS, i like you.  We get along.  But i'm not going to make any more points about the Big 12 being weaker today than it was during the 06-08, and I don't think you should try making any more points saying otherwise.  I have my reasons to think that it is (national title appearances, top 10 finishes, etc.) and you have yours (total number of teams with 6 win seasons). We can agree to disagree.

:cheers:

 :sdeek:

Now I know what everyone felt like who witnessed that "no mas" fight from the last 30 for 30.

Offline OregonSmock

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OS, i like you.  We get along.  But i'm not going to make any more points about the Big 12 being weaker today than it was during the 06-08, and I don't think you should try making any more points saying otherwise.  I have my reasons to think that it is (national title appearances, top 10 finishes, etc.) and you have yours (total number of teams with 6 win seasons). We can agree to disagree.

:cheers:


dlew, you're a good dude.  Thanks for the kind words.  I would argue that both of us are right.  The Big 12 was stronger at the top during the Prince era (OU, UT, KU, MU, and Tech were all top 5 teams at one point), but the Big 12 is stronger from top to bottom now (the only bad team is KU). 

 :cheers:

Offline GoodForAnother

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the big 12 was good last year but this year is about the worst it's ever been
emaw

Offline bubbles4ksu

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Let's take a look back at the Prince era, shall we?

2006:  wins against Eastern Illinois, Florida Atlantic, Marshall, Oklahoma State (7-6 {3-5}), Iowa State (4-8 {1-7}), Texas (10-3 {6-2})

2007:  wins against San Jose St., Missouri St., Texas (10-3 {5-3}) , Colorado (6-7 {4-4} , Baylor (3-9 {0-8})

2008:  wins against North Texas, Montana St., La Lafayette, Texas A&M (4-8 {2-6}) , Iowa State (2-10 {0-8})

So, looking back, Prince had four quality wins in his three years at K-State (Texas x2, Oklahoma State, Colorado).  By comparison, Gill had two quality wins in two years at KU (Georgia Tech and Northern Illinois).  Also, as you can see, there were multiple bad teams in the Big 12 during the Prince years (Iowa State, Colorado, Baylor, Texas A&M, Nebraska, K-State, etc.).  Right now, there's one bad team (KU).  The difference is night and day, my friend.
Beems is really running down the '07 'Hawk team and building up the '12 Big 12 Champion KSU 'Cats.

OS, i like you.  We get along.  But i'm not going to make any more points about the Big 12 being weaker today than it was during the 06-08, and I don't think you should try making any more points saying otherwise.  I have my reasons to think that it is (national title appearances, top 10 finishes, etc.) and you have yours (total number of teams with 6 win seasons). We can agree to disagree.

:cheers:


dlew, you're a good dude.  Thanks for the kind words.  I would argue that both of us are right.  The Big 12 was stronger at the top during the Prince era (OU, UT, KU, MU, and Tech were all top 5 teams at one point), but the Big 12 is stronger from top to bottom now (the only bad team is KU). 

 :cheers:

He even admits that the KU team lost to the only quality opponent they faced.  :sdeek:

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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There's been what, one legitimate top 5 team since the beginning of the Gill era (OSU '11)? 


KSU '12 was legitimately one of the 5 best teams in college football, too. I don't really believe that the Big 12 was that much stronger at the top in the past, either. The bottom is just so much stronger than it used to be (at least in '11 and '12, the league isn't all that great at the top or bottom now) that the odds of a team running the table are just pretty slim.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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 :ROFL:

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Offline mocat

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right on time, wacky

Offline 420seriouscat69

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right on time, wacky
Guess what else I found? Beems suit.  :lol:

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Offline DQ12

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OS, i like you.  We get along.  But i'm not going to make any more points about the Big 12 being weaker today than it was during the 06-08, and I don't think you should try making any more points saying otherwise.  I have my reasons to think that it is (national title appearances, top 10 finishes, etc.) and you have yours (total number of teams with 6 win seasons). We can agree to disagree.

:cheers:


dlew, you're a good dude.  Thanks for the kind words.  I would argue that both of us are right.  The Big 12 was stronger at the top during the Prince era (OU, UT, KU, MU, and Tech were all top 5 teams at one point), but the Big 12 is stronger from top to bottom now (the only bad team is KU). 

 :cheers:
Well if we're both right then the whole context of Prince isn't really all that much different than that of Weis/Gill, at least in terms of scheduling.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline OregonSmock

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This board could use more dlews/good posters and less wackytards/timhawk enablers. 

Offline OregonSmock

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dlew, perhaps you could explain your line of reasoning there.  My whole point comes down to the fact that there were more shitty teams to win against during the Prince era than there are now.  You seem to be fixating on strength of schedule, which I would still argue has been more difficult from top to bottom over the last few years.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 02:13:52 PM by OregonSmock »

Offline 420seriouscat69

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This board could use more dlews/good posters and less wackytards/timhawk enablers.

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Offline lopakman

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right on time, wacky
Guess what else I found? Beems suit.  :lol:

lol, good post Wacky.
@lopakman

Offline OregonSmock

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Pro tip:  posting pics of OJ Simpson just strengthens my point that you're a shitty poster, wackytard.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Pro tip:  posting pics of OJ Simpson just strengthens my point that you're a shitty poster.

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