Author Topic: It is that time of year again...  (Read 22168 times)

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Offline star seed 7

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #100 on: August 22, 2014, 12:25:42 PM »
It makes me very happy that Tom was a coach

_fan too
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #101 on: August 22, 2014, 12:26:05 PM »

My oldest boy decided he didn't want to play this year.  Is going to run cross country instead.  One of his coaches was a huge douchebag last year which led to his decision.  He asked me about playing this year and I just gave him the Trim 3:16 advice.  He's a great athlete, but he has to want to play to enjoy it.

You are a good Dad.

My son is not a great athlete.  I think I may have a thespian or a hard core gamer here.  I am cool with whatever.  In this day and age, those skills are probably better translated to career success in America than sports prowess.

Acting, huh?

I think all of that is cool.

I've coached football and basketball for 16 years, but never forced my kids play. My 8th grade son now plays football (started as a 6th grader) and enjoys it. He also plays some tennis. My 5th grader dabbles in tennis and golf and that's about it. I see some merits for making your kids do things, but I think too many kids get turned off or burnt quickly, especially if they aren't overly athletic (neither of my kids are) or because its clear their parents are living vicariously through their kids. To me the key is finding something they like and it doesn't always have to be sports.

XocolateThundarr, it ticks me off when coaches ruin sports for kids. I hope I don't do that for anyone that I coach.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2014, 12:26:41 PM »
Fedor I want to read your last post, but it is a quote mess.

Offline Fedor

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2014, 12:44:18 PM »
Fedor I want to read your last post, but it is a quote mess.
Yes, good lord I don't know what happened.  I was trying to get out of the office for lunch.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Online michigancat

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2014, 12:55:21 PM »
I was able to get a few quotes from that:

Not concerned about winning, but having success.  Success is defined by me to include the 3 items you list above but also,and this is more specific for lineman types, to understand and take pride in your role and understand how it helps the team.  We had a kid who was 5'4" and weighed 225 lbs, just this year he ran a 9 second 40, he is a lineman and would never be anything but a lineman.  And he is fantastic at it, a freaking road grader in every sense of the word.  He needs to feel pride in being a lineman and own it and work to improve.

How old was this kid? 11? 12? His body will evolve. Running some routes would have been great for him, even if he ended up being a lineman. He may have had a great arm, too. I guess we'll never know, oh well.


Yes I agree, and I knew alot of this going in.  But somehow you convince yourself that it wont be as bad as you think.  Another guy I was friends with, and whose son is a legit QB, saw the writing on the wall and went to another org. in another town.  I let my son make the decision where he wanted to play and he chose to stay.  So I guess I just tried to grin and bear it much of the time.

Did your son have fun?

OK, here is the deal.  It is a player safety issue.  In football you have to meet the contact, meaning if you are going to get hit you need to hit back.  If you don't there is a much greater chance of getting hurt.  The kids who are timid will not meet the contact, they close their eyes and stand there or turn their back.  In practice you can protect them through managing the matchups but in games there is no way to do that.  Once the other team locates them they start getting lit up.  And you have to play them because there are league participation requirements.  So you "hide" them.  As for just kicking them off the team and refunding the money, I am not comfortable with that, it would feel like giving up on the kid.  Some do eventually get it and start getting involved, some even in the last game.

Well, you could have just said the league had participation requirements from the start and what you did would have made a lot more sense. But it seems like your league is sending mixed signals - "competitive leagues" shouldn't have participation requirements. Really, contact football in general probably shouldn't have participation requirements for safety reasons you mentioned.

Offline pissclams

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #105 on: August 22, 2014, 01:05:29 PM »
I was asked to coach my oldest sons 4th grade basketball team after the area director could find no one else.  Did it never thinking it was something I would do long term.  Needless to say, I got hooked and 15 years later I had coached 11 seasons of basketball (head), 8 seasons of baseball (asst/head), 6 seasons of football (asst/head).  Took on a baseball and football team after my sons were out of youth sports because they needed coaches.  Nothing more rewarding then seeing kids develop from the 4th-8th grades.  The kid who scores 2 points the entire season as a 4th grader to hitting 3 pointers and scoring 20 in his final game as an eighth grader.  The scrawny kid who plays center as a 4th grader and matures to become the best combo qb/rb in middle school. Or the shy, tentative kid who didn't want the ball or want to get physical, but finally 'got it' after lots of encouragement and practice.  He chose to become a Marine and defend our country out of high school. Finally, retired to enjoy watching my youngest son playing in college now.  It did get to be a grind near the end with parents, etc.  However, I got far more from coaching than the kids ever got from me I think.  Definitely made me a better person. 

Tom
tom what sport is your son playing now


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

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Offline CHONGS

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #106 on: August 22, 2014, 01:09:05 PM »
For too many its a ego trip for the adults (coaches and parents).   Oh wow your 11 year old son scored three touchdowns? Who gives a crap?  Oh wow you coached your team of 11 year boys into a undefeated season by exploiting an easy to figure out weakness in the wide maturity spread of 11 year olds?  Well here's a call from Jerry Jones he needs you to save the Cowboys!

Offline Fedor

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #107 on: August 22, 2014, 01:54:53 PM »
I was able to get a few quotes from that:

Not concerned about winning, but having success.  Success is defined by me to include the 3 items you list above but also,and this is more specific for lineman types, to understand and take pride in your role and understand how it helps the team.  We had a kid who was 5'4" and weighed 225 lbs, just this year he ran a 9 second 40, he is a lineman and would never be anything but a lineman.  And he is fantastic at it, a freaking road grader in every sense of the word.  He needs to feel pride in being a lineman and own it and work to improve.

How old was this kid? 11? 12? His body will evolve. Running some routes would have been great for him, even if he ended up being a lineman. He may have had a great arm, too. I guess we'll never know, oh well.
It is possible that his body will evolve and if it does he can make a go of it.  Plenty of QB's in HS get switched over from another position and do fine.  Just because he did not play in 6th grade does not preclude him from doing it in 4 yrs.  FTR he does not have an arm, most kids do not at his age.  You can tell just from throwing around before and after practice who can throw.
Quote
Quote
Yes I agree, and I knew alot of this going in.  But somehow you convince yourself that it wont be as bad as you think.  Another guy I was friends with, and whose son is a legit QB, saw the writing on the wall and went to another org. in another town.  I let my son make the decision where he wanted to play and he chose to stay.  So I guess I just tried to grin and bear it much of the time.

Did your son have fun?
Yep, he really likes FB, but could have been more fun.  And he did complain re: coaches and QB.
Quote
OK, here is the deal.  It is a player safety issue.  In football you have to meet the contact, meaning if you are going to get hit you need to hit back.  If you don't there is a much greater chance of getting hurt.  The kids who are timid will not meet the contact, they close their eyes and stand there or turn their back.  In practice you can protect them through managing the matchups but in games there is no way to do that.  Once the other team locates them they start getting lit up.  And you have to play them because there are league participation requirements.  So you "hide" them.  As for just kicking them off the team and refunding the money, I am not comfortable with that, it would feel like giving up on the kid.  Some do eventually get it and start getting involved, some even in the last game.

Well, you could have just said the league had participation requirements from the start and what you did would have made a lot more sense. But it seems like your league is sending mixed signals - "competitive leagues" shouldn't have participation requirements. Really, contact football in general probably shouldn't have participation requirements for safety reasons you mentioned.
So all this could have been avoided if I had just mentioned participation requirements from the start?  The instant judging of me to be a ego driven meathead would have never happened?
 :dubious: :dubious: :dubious:
These are small towney teams in Kansas.  There is no recruiting superstar players for an all star team like AAU basketball.  The teams are drawn from the respective communities.  It is perfectly appropriate to have participation rules. Those kids put in the work just like everyone else, they should get on the field too. 
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline Trim

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #108 on: August 22, 2014, 02:11:24 PM »
they should get on the field too. 

The hidden part of it.

Offline Fedor

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #109 on: August 22, 2014, 02:13:31 PM »
they should get on the field too. 

The hidden part of it.
The safe part, it is not a perfect system.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline sys

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #110 on: August 22, 2014, 03:02:38 PM »
a couple of points from a former child athlete with no experience or interest in coaching or ever watching a current child athlete.

1)  the stuff michigan said about the adults caring more about winning than the children is complete bullshit.  winning is the entire point.  without trying to win, it's just exercise.  might as well hop on a treadmill.  sports are only fun when you try to win.  you can still have tons of fun if you don't win, but you can't have hardly any fun if you don't try to win.  there is nothing more boring than playing a team sport where score is not kept and/or both teams aren't vigorously attempting to win.  i'm not a particularly competitive person, btw, and wasn't a competitive child.

2)  the only thing more boring than playing a game where no one cares about winning is sitting on the sideline watching other children play and/or playing, but not being involved in the action.  jesus christ, that sucks.  eff that crap about the fat kid needs to learn to play on the line because he's good at it and sucks at everything else.  he deserves to be a qb or rb or wr just like everyone else.


i don't know what the upshot of that is.  maybe (definitely) don't play games where large numbers of children have to be linemen or some other position that sucks.  and make more teams and have less subs so that everyone has to play and coaches aren't bitching about having to play the shitty kids and parents aren't bitching about their kid not playing and kids aren't stuck on the sideline watching other kids play.  like structurally remove the ways in which children are forced to do crap that sucks and then let them play and compete and have fun trying to win and don't be stupid about it by trying to tell them that it doesn't matter who wins when the entire point of the activity is to attempt to win.
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Online michigancat

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2014, 03:31:38 PM »
a couple of points from a former child athlete with no experience or interest in coaching or ever watching a current child athlete.

1)  the stuff michigan said about the adults caring more about winning than the children is complete bullshit.  winning is the entire point.  without trying to win, it's just exercise.  might as well hop on a treadmill.  sports are only fun when you try to win.  you can still have tons of fun if you don't win, but you can't have hardly any fun if you don't try to win.  there is nothing more boring than playing a team sport where score is not kept and/or both teams aren't vigorously attempting to win.  i'm not a particularly competitive person, btw, and wasn't a competitive child.

Yeah, none of that contradicts what I said about parents caring more about winning than the kids. I agree with what you say for the most part, but I don't think a coach at the youth level should place winning over development. A coach can encourage players to be competitive without worrying about the final score or hiding a player so he never gets to touch the ball. And remember, I explicitly said winning is part of what makes sports fun for kids. But it definitely isn't the only part.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 03:36:07 PM by michigancat »

Online michigancat

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #112 on: August 22, 2014, 03:33:02 PM »
2)  the only thing more boring than playing a game where no one cares about winning is sitting on the sideline watching other children play and/or playing, but not being involved in the action.  jesus christ, that sucks.  eff that crap about the fat kid needs to learn to play on the line because he's good at it and sucks at everything else.  he deserves to be a qb or rb or wr just like everyone else.


i don't know what the upshot of that is.  maybe (definitely) don't play games where large numbers of children have to be linemen or some other position that sucks.  and make more teams and have less subs so that everyone has to play and coaches aren't bitching about having to play the shitty kids and parents aren't bitching about their kid not playing and kids aren't stuck on the sideline watching other kids play.  like structurally remove the ways in which children are forced to do crap that sucks and then let them play and compete and have fun trying to win and don't be stupid about it by trying to tell them that it doesn't matter who wins when the entire point of the activity is to attempt to win.

my 7on 7 flag football suggestion was a great solution to this

Offline slobber

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #113 on: August 22, 2014, 03:45:25 PM »

For too many its a ego trip for the adults (coaches and parents).   Oh wow your 11 year old son scored three touchdowns? ...
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ME???? I THINK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ME AND HOW AWESOME DOBBERJR IS AT SOCCER!!!!!

I really can't help it that he scores goals and makes awesome crosses and kicks a soccer ball like a stud. I always figured my kids would play football and basketball, like normal kids do.


Gonna win 'em all!

Offline kslim

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #114 on: August 22, 2014, 03:47:00 PM »
well this thread is pertinent to me. helping coach for about my 4th year now

Offline sys

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #115 on: August 22, 2014, 04:07:03 PM »
Yeah, none of that contradicts what I said about parents caring more about winning than the kids. I agree with what you say for the most part... And remember, I explicitly said winning is part of what makes sports fun for kids.

well, i only read a very small % of the thread, so it's not surprising i missed that.  the 7on7 thing is smart.  there's no reason children should have to be blocking.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Fedor

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #116 on: August 22, 2014, 04:21:38 PM »
well this thread is pertinent to me. helping coach for about my 4th year now
You should have chimed in so I did not have to deal with these goofballs all the time.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline ben ji

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #117 on: August 22, 2014, 04:48:22 PM »
Guyz, I'm totally going to live vicariously through unborn ben ji jr.

Already got it planned out with all my HS football bro's.

-We are all going to have MALE children at the exact same time, preferably twins or 2 in a 3 year period so when one is a senior the other will be a soph.
-Children will grow up having pushup contests and races starting at like age 3.
-3 week camp every summer between 3rd and 8th grade, really get them ready for the upcoming season.
-If things all go as planned they should be able to bring home the state title my bro's and I fell short of!!!!

Offline CNS

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #118 on: August 22, 2014, 04:53:58 PM »
Snake venom in their Gatorade!

Offline star seed 7

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #119 on: August 22, 2014, 04:56:25 PM »
Bee stings if they slack off
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Offline ben ji

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #120 on: August 22, 2014, 05:55:57 PM »
Snake venom in their Gatorade!

I know a guy....

Offline kslim

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #121 on: August 22, 2014, 06:46:21 PM »
well this thread is pertinent to me. helping coach for about my 4th year now
You should have chimed in so I did not have to deal with these goofballs all the time.
well I'm a huge goofball

Online KST8FAN

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #122 on: August 24, 2014, 10:04:57 AM »
I was asked to coach my oldest sons 4th grade basketball team after the area director could find no one else.  Did it never thinking it was something I would do long term.  Needless to say, I got hooked and 15 years later I had coached 11 seasons of basketball (head), 8 seasons of baseball (asst/head), 6 seasons of football (asst/head).  Took on a baseball and football team after my sons were out of youth sports because they needed coaches.  Nothing more rewarding then seeing kids develop from the 4th-8th grades.  The kid who scores 2 points the entire season as a 4th grader to hitting 3 pointers and scoring 20 in his final game as an eighth grader.  The scrawny kid who plays center as a 4th grader and matures to become the best combo qb/rb in middle school. Or the shy, tentative kid who didn't want the ball or want to get physical, but finally 'got it' after lots of encouragement and practice.  He chose to become a Marine and defend our country out of high school. Finally, retired to enjoy watching my youngest son playing in college now.  It did get to be a grind near the end with parents, etc.  However, I got far more from coaching than the kids ever got from me I think.  Definitely made me a better person. 

Tom
tom what sport is your son playing now

He is playing football at Highland JuCo.  This fall will be his sophomore season.  He is qualified academically so he hopes to get recruited and transfer in January to a four year school.  He has some D-I/D-II schools interest, but his dream(s) are to either a) play for a team on a coast so he can go to the beach or b) compete to replace BJ Finney at mom and dad's alma mater;)

Highland head/line coach is Aaron Arnold who played two years at Garden City then two years at K-State '01-02.  Scotties have been historically bad in the JJC, but posted their best season ever last fall going 6-4.  Hoping they can follow that up this fall with similar or better campaign.

Tom

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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #123 on: August 24, 2014, 10:32:35 AM »
The total station pizza is better than the Casey's pizza (Highland protip)
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Re: It is that time of year again...
« Reply #124 on: August 24, 2014, 10:54:23 AM »
The total station pizza is better than the Casey's pizza (Highland protip)

 :thumbsup:  ...and a stop at the Dairy Barn in Wathena for dessert.

Tom