Kansas City things

[420seriouscat69]

You know what it's like having your place on ground level downtown? Like, if Ms. wacky and I go Pak our faces off and we're to lazy to take it to the bedroom, we're putting on a show for everyone that walks by because our blinds suck!  Like, sometimes I wanna watch TV in the living room, with my hands down my pants, with no judgement, like a goddamn America, but that's not possible right now. 

[Phil Titola]

i don't know crap about the financials, but i have a hard time believeing a waldo->city market street car wouldn't get used a lot.

it would get used a lot. 

by whom?  the same folks who ignore existing bus lines in favor of the convenience of having their own car with them?

I take the MAX to waldo at least monthly for boozy brunch or family/friend interactions.

works pretty good, eh?

Yup... Doesn't discount what a rail system can add to the transit system... Waldo will never see rail

[star seed 7]

First floor? 

[420seriouscat69]

First floor? 

Yes. And like 25 ft away from the Quaff. We hear/see a lot of crap at night.

[Phil Titola]

You know what it's like having your place on ground level downtown? Like, if Ms. wacky and I go Pak our faces off and we're to lazy to take it to the bedroom, we're putting on a show for everyone that walks by because our blinds suck!  Like, sometimes I wanna watch TV in the living room, with my hands down my pants, with no judgement, like a goddamn America, but that's not possible right now. 

I honestly can't believe they rent hothouse places out on the ground floor... Hope you get a great price on rent.

[Dub]

and b) dlew's weird "acknowledge the fact that i ride the bus" complex

Well, I DO ride busses a ton. I solely rely on public transport -- I think that gives me a slightly unique perspective in this thread. 

I just think busses (which already exist) make more sense than spending an assload of money on something that's going to do the same damn thing. 

  .

Initial investment is more.  Maintenance is more on buses.

link?  This says otherwise: http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Vehicles/a/What-Are-The-True-Operating-Cost-Differences-Between-Bus-And-Light-Rail.htm

While I hold About.com in the highest regard, I looked at the website of the source they used .. http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/NTST/2013%20NTST%20Storylines.pdf

Transit rail has among the highest number
of trips per hour among all modal categories. Therefore, even though cost per hour is higher
than fixed route services, the ultimate operating cost per trip is comparable.

I feel like I should change industries after this much research.. also.. cities with ferries should be furious about tax money.

[420seriouscat69]

You know what it's like having your place on ground level downtown? Like, if Ms. wacky and I go Pak our faces off and we're to lazy to take it to the bedroom, we're putting on a show for everyone that walks by because our blinds suck!  Like, sometimes I wanna watch TV in the living room, with my hands down my pants, with no judgement, like a goddamn America, but that's not possible right now. 

I honestly can't believe they rent hothouse places out on the ground floor... Hope you get a great price on rent.

Me too, bud! Me too!

[DQ12]

and b) dlew's weird "acknowledge the fact that i ride the bus" complex

Well, I DO ride busses a ton. I solely rely on public transport -- I think that gives me a slightly unique perspective in this thread. 

I just think busses (which already exist) make more sense than spending an assload of money on something that's going to do the same damn thing. 

  .

Initial investment is more.  Maintenance is more on buses.

link?  This says otherwise: http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Vehicles/a/What-Are-The-True-Operating-Cost-Differences-Between-Bus-And-Light-Rail.htm

While I hold About.com in the highest regard, I looked at the website of the source they used .. http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/NTST/2013%20NTST%20Storylines.pdf

Transit rail has among the highest number
of trips per hour among all modal categories. Therefore, even though cost per hour is higher
than fixed route services, the ultimate operating cost per trip is comparable.

I feel like I should change industries after this much research.. also.. cities with ferries should be furious about tax money.

I feel like what you quoted doesn't exactly support your position that "maintenance" (which I assumed you meant the cost of operation) is higher for busses,

[Dub]

and b) dlew's weird "acknowledge the fact that i ride the bus" complex

Well, I DO ride busses a ton. I solely rely on public transport -- I think that gives me a slightly unique perspective in this thread. 

I just think busses (which already exist) make more sense than spending an assload of money on something that's going to do the same damn thing. 

  .

Initial investment is more.  Maintenance is more on buses.

link?  This says otherwise: http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Vehicles/a/What-Are-The-True-Operating-Cost-Differences-Between-Bus-And-Light-Rail.htm

While I hold About.com in the highest regard, I looked at the website of the source they used .. http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/NTST/2013%20NTST%20Storylines.pdf

Transit rail has among the highest number
of trips per hour among all modal categories. Therefore, even though cost per hour is higher
than fixed route services, the ultimate operating cost per trip is comparable.

I feel like I should change industries after this much research.. also.. cities with ferries should be furious about tax money.

I feel like what you quoted doesn't exactly support your position that "maintenance" (which I assumed you meant the cost of operation) is higher for busses,

They have graphs on there to look at.  And it's your article that sourced it and paraphrased wrong.

Cost per Unlinked Passenger Trip:  Bus: $3.71  Streetcar: $2.53   And for good measure:  Lightrail: $3.46
 

[Dub]

St. Louis Metro – Total Costs & Passenger Mileage, 1996-2005

Capital Costs:
          Capital Costs:    Rolling Stock     O&M Cost   Total Cost       Passenger-Mileage
Bus     $64.0          $131.3            $1,045.5        $1,240.8            1,389.5
LRT     $844.4            $124.2          $262.2         $1,231.2           1,047.7

[michigancat]

St. Louis Metro – Total Costs & Passenger Mileage, 1996-2005

Capital Costs:
          Capital Costs:    Rolling Stock     O&M Cost   Total Cost       Passenger-Mileage
Bus     $64.0          $131.3            $1,045.5        $1,240.8            1,389.5
LRT     $844.4            $124.2          $262.2         $1,231.2           1,047.7

Is that comparing the entire bus system to their light rail? That is a pretty poor comparison. The St. Louis Metro buses serve pretty distant and relatively sparsely populated areas compared to Light Rail which would really skew the passenger-mileage dollars.

[Dub]

St. Louis Metro – Total Costs & Passenger Mileage, 1996-2005

Capital Costs:
          Capital Costs:    Rolling Stock     O&M Cost   Total Cost       Passenger-Mileage
Bus     $64.0          $131.3            $1,045.5        $1,240.8            1,389.5
LRT     $844.4            $124.2          $262.2         $1,231.2           1,047.7

Is that comparing the entire bus system to their light rail? That is a pretty poor comparison. The St. Louis Metro buses serve pretty distant and relatively sparsely populated areas compared to Light Rail which would really skew the passenger-mileage dollars.

It's total cost per passenger mile. 

For bus, average annual O&M costs were $104.6 million, and average passenger-mileage was 139.0 million.
For LRT, average annual O&M costs were $26.2 million, and average passenger-mileage was 104.8 million

[michigancat]

Yeah, that is not a useful comparison

[pissclams]

sometimes perception is reality.  streetcars are perceived as nicer, cleaner, more convenient than busses.  this street car will be free - v. paying for a bus. 

it is what it is.  Kind of like uber v. cab.  it's the same idea - you're getting from point A to point B.  but to a lot of people, there's a huge difference. 

that's true what you're saying but if visitors want to get around, they have options and cleaning up our bus system into something that people would want to ride and not be scared to ride and thats easy to ride seems like a much more prudent option to me.  but we weren't given that option

[Phil Titola]

sometimes perception is reality.  streetcars are perceived as nicer, cleaner, more convenient than busses.  this street car will be free - v. paying for a bus. 

it is what it is.  Kind of like uber v. cab.  it's the same idea - you're getting from point A to point B.  but to a lot of people, there's a huge difference. 

that's true what you're saying but if visitors want to get around, they have options and cleaning up our bus system into something that people would want to ride and not be scared to ride and thats easy to ride seems like a much more prudent option to me.  but we weren't given that option

Forming a TDD to get your option takes passion.  Let's do it!

[The Big Train]

Wow! This thread grew a lot today! Just like the KC transport system!

[Belvis Noland]

sometimes perception is reality.  streetcars are perceived as nicer, cleaner, more convenient than busses.  this street car will be free - v. paying for a bus. 

it is what it is.  Kind of like uber v. cab.  it's the same idea - you're getting from point A to point B.  but to a lot of people, there's a huge difference. 

that's true what you're saying but if visitors want to get around, they have options and cleaning up our bus system into something that people would want to ride and not be scared to ride and thats easy to ride seems like a much more prudent option to me.  but we weren't given that option

You weren't given an option, because you don't live in the downtown TDD.  This is not a hard concept.  The City didn't force this streetcar on anybody.  When you were given the choice, you voted it down and, hence, are not paying for it.   

Regarding the funding for busses, the Missouri Legislature in 2015 renewed a half-cent sales tax providing ~$35 million in annual funding to the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority, for use in improving and maintaining the bus system. 

These systems aren't mutually exclusive.  They complement one another. 

[mocat]

just heard Prospect is getting federal $ for a MAX bus line of its own 

[mocat]

i also did not know the Main st MAX has only been around since 2005, and Troost MAX since 2011

[Phil Titola]

I'd invite all you kc peeps to my annual MAX pub crawl but mixing IRL friends with IRL gE friends... Is that weird?

[mocat]

annual MAX pub crawl

been to blind tiger yet?

[420seriouscat69]

Yup

[KCFDcat]

I'd invite all you kc peeps to my annual MAX pub crawl but mixing IRL friends with IRL gE friends... Is that weird?

Don't do it.

[Phil Titola]

annual MAX pub crawl

been to blind tiger yet?

Harling's has been our traditional 39th street stop...

I just remembered this year we are doing streetcar instead. I tried to do troost max last year but there was quite a gap in midtown that didn't have day bars.

[Phil Titola]

Yup