Author Topic: Kansas City things  (Read 1003656 times)

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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3825 on: February 18, 2016, 10:59:39 AM »
A guy who designs massive parking lots is mad about public transportation?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3826 on: February 18, 2016, 10:59:50 AM »
I love the Pissclams anger over this thing - given the fact he's not paying for it.  The City is using the TDD approach for funding - it's not taking money out of the general fund or imposing a city-wide tax.  So, unless you live/shop in the downtown TDD, you'll never spend a single penny on this thing. Of course, he already knows how this works, because midtown/plaza/brookside residents already voted down the TDD that would have brought the streetcar to UMKC. 

The system worked like it was supposed to.  downtown businesses/residents voted to build the streetcar, midtown residents voted against it. 

Maybe it's a big fancy toy that won't amount to crap.  who knows.  just like P&L and Sprint Center.  Long term, who knows if it's worth the investment.  But, the facts seem pretty clear that things like P&L/SC and now, the streetcar, are driving downtown development.  All along the streetcar corridor buildings are going up and surface lots are going away.  Residential numbers are booming.  in the last 10 years the number of downtown residents has increased from 5,000 to +20,000.  This is obviously not all due to a streetcar line.  But, a lot of it could be due to simply providing prospective residents with the basic necessities of a modern downtown area. 

It could be all smoke and mirrors.  But, the really strange thing is that every modern city in America has a rail system that feeds into the downtown area.  And every downtown area has a circulator of some sort - whether it's a fixed bus lane (Denver), or streetcar (Portland, Dallas, Seattle, etc.).  This may be pure coincidence.  Or, maybe, these cities are onto something.         

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3827 on: February 18, 2016, 11:00:28 AM »
phil, i appreciate your level attitude towards this and your willingness to discuss the streetcar from a different point of view. i just disagree with you. :cheers:
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline RockState2000

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3828 on: February 18, 2016, 11:01:12 AM »
Almost everyone I know backing the streetcar rides the bus on the regular....the dorks that say they will ride the streetcar but never ride a bus are typically the hayseed immigrants from Western Kansas... And I'm all on board with saying they have some sort of weird complex.

I knew I was atypical. Happy to have it verified.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3829 on: February 18, 2016, 11:03:07 AM »
phil, i appreciate your level attitude towards this and your willingness to discuss the streetcar from a different point of view. i just disagree with you. :cheers:

Cheers. Its hard to log into goEMAW.com and try and put away that persona for actual discussion... Which is why I told clams we should drinks beers and talk about it.

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3830 on: February 18, 2016, 11:03:57 AM »
It could be all smoke and mirrors.  But, the really strange thing is that every modern city in America has a rail system that feeds into the downtown area.  And every downtown area has a circulator of some sort - whether it's a fixed bus lane (Denver), or streetcar (Portland, Dallas, Seattle, etc.).  This may be pure coincidence.  Or, maybe, these cities are onto something.         

this doesnt feed into the downtown area. it just travels through it. the people of midtown/plaza/brookside voted against it because it doesnt make sense. they built part of it anyway like a sort of "well build part of it now and show you guys how great it is so you change your minds." which is a terrible waste of money...
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3831 on: February 18, 2016, 11:07:01 AM »
It could be all smoke and mirrors.  But, the really strange thing is that every modern city in America has a rail system that feeds into the downtown area.  And every downtown area has a circulator of some sort - whether it's a fixed bus lane (Denver), or streetcar (Portland, Dallas, Seattle, etc.).  This may be pure coincidence.  Or, maybe, these cities are onto something.         

this doesnt feed into the downtown area. it just travels through it. the people of midtown/plaza/brookside voted against it because it doesnt make sense. they built part of it anyway like a sort of "well build part of it now and show you guys how great it is so you change your minds." which is a terrible waste of money...

Midtown voted in favor by a 60 percent margin. South of the plaza and east killed the phase 2 election. Hence phase 2 take 2 will be to umkc to where people wanted it.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3832 on: February 18, 2016, 11:15:08 AM »
It could be all smoke and mirrors.  But, the really strange thing is that every modern city in America has a rail system that feeds into the downtown area.  And every downtown area has a circulator of some sort - whether it's a fixed bus lane (Denver), or streetcar (Portland, Dallas, Seattle, etc.).  This may be pure coincidence.  Or, maybe, these cities are onto something.         

this doesnt feed into the downtown area. it just travels through it. the people of midtown/plaza/brookside voted against it because it doesnt make sense. they built part of it anyway like a sort of "well build part of it now and show you guys how great it is so you change your minds." which is a terrible waste of money...

Right.  the streetcar is the downtown circulator part of the plan.  Not the regional rail part of the plan.  After 30 years of rough ridin' around with mass transit (which again exists in every modern city in the world) the City finally just said let's get shovels in the ground.  kind of a "if you build it, they will come" approach. 

Maybe it will be a massive waste of money, guess we'll find out. 

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3833 on: February 18, 2016, 11:24:56 AM »
well why not try the "if you build it, they will come" thing again? it worked for P&L and the sprint center! :flush:
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3834 on: February 18, 2016, 11:28:12 AM »
Sprint center is a huge success as is P&L....p&l does cost the city money due annually to the massive public garages underground that are city assets and upgraded utilities.... Not because bar Louie doesn't sell enough dollar beers.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3835 on: February 18, 2016, 11:28:47 AM »
well why not try the "if you build it, they will come" thing again? it worked for P&L and the sprint center! :flush:

I'm confused. 

I would say it absolutely worked for P&L and Sprint Center.

Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3836 on: February 18, 2016, 11:35:24 AM »
If I had to guess, the people in this thread opposing the streetcar and/or SC/P&L, neither live nor work downtown.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3837 on: February 18, 2016, 11:37:21 AM »
If I had to guess, the people in this thread opposing the streetcar and/or SC/P&L, neither live nor work downtown.
I live in Chicago.  But I think I'm still allowed to take interest in what's going on in my favorite city.


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Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3838 on: February 18, 2016, 11:42:11 AM »
If I had to guess, the people in this thread opposing the streetcar and/or SC/P&L, neither live nor work downtown.
I live in Chicago.  But I think I'm still allowed to take interest in what's going on in my favorite city.

I didn't say you're not allowed to.  I just think living/working downtown (especially pre-SC/P&L) provides helpful perspective about the things we're currently discussing. 

Online mocat

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3839 on: February 18, 2016, 11:49:25 AM »
well why not try the "if you build it, they will come" thing again? it worked for P&L and the sprint center! :flush:


Lolol

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3840 on: February 18, 2016, 11:58:47 AM »
If I had to guess, the people in this thread opposing the streetcar and/or SC/P&L, neither live nor work downtown.

That doesn't invalidate opinions

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3841 on: February 18, 2016, 12:04:29 PM »
I live downtown and I don't want it. It's been a cluster eff in the river market. I can only imagine had I stayed at my place off Delaware.

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3842 on: February 18, 2016, 12:05:19 PM »
You mean the construction of it was a clusterfuck?

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3843 on: February 18, 2016, 12:08:41 PM »
You mean the construction of it was a clusterfuck?
Yes. I imagine it will be more clustery when it's up and going too.

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3844 on: February 18, 2016, 12:09:23 PM »
i might be off base here but everything ive read about PnL and the SC say theyre way off from revenue projections and are taking much longer to pay off debt than anticipated.

i enjoy having both there like 3 times a year, just like i probably will the street car. doesnt mean i dont think theyre a huge waste of money.
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline Dub

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3845 on: February 18, 2016, 12:10:10 PM »
I don't understand what the main anti-rail reasoning is... 

Is it cost?
Is it something about homeless people?
Is it simply because you wouldn't use it?

What's the main hangup here?

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3846 on: February 18, 2016, 12:10:53 PM »
You mean the construction of it was a clusterfuck?
Yes. I imagine it will be more clustery when it's up and going too.

construction of anything going in where existing traffic is is always going to be a clusterfuck. people who think construction inconvenience is a reason to dislike something are impatient. infrastructure isnt built at the snap of a finger.
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3847 on: February 18, 2016, 12:11:21 PM »
I think the major hang up right now is the cost for a rail system that goes like 2 blocks.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3848 on: February 18, 2016, 12:12:22 PM »
You mean the construction of it was a clusterfuck?
Yes. I imagine it will be more clustery when it's up and going too.

Why?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline DQ12

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Re: Kansas City things
« Reply #3849 on: February 18, 2016, 12:12:34 PM »
I don't understand what the main anti-rail reasoning is... 

Is it cost?
Is it something about homeless people?
Is it simply because you wouldn't use it?

What's the main hangup here?
My only hang up is that I think it makes very little sense from a transportation perspective.  I looked at blogs like Totola suggested, and I couldn't find anything beyond "perception" as reasons a streetcar makes more sense than busses.


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