The Scott Pruitt "If the models are all wrong" thread

[camKSU]

Not an effing soul on here has said don't develop alternative energy sources.   

But once again, decisions are being driven by bad data and politics.   

But it appears the greenies prefer seeing people living in energy poverty, which is a growing problem in developed countries who are going all-in on alternative (inefficient) energy.   

Sure, your right... The decisions by Trump and the GOP are being driven by bad data (breitbart and infowars) and bad politics (oil and gas lobbying).

 "energy poverty" 

If India and China (and africa) try to adopt the same lifestyles that we have historically had in the US and Western Europe... We are toast as a planet. Our environment as a system can not bear the burden of these increases in global emissions, and its subsequent effects on our climate.

The inefficiencies and expensiveness are hurdles currently but with increased investment and research this is going to vastly improve... As the trends have shown for decades now.

Why are you so being so clingy to fossil fuels? I mean I get religion, civil rights, and culture, I even understand economic conservative views in terms of being traditional and resistant to change... but science and technology?

Are you creationists too, Dax/FSD/KSU_W? Or maybe you all just prefer alternate facts in all facets of your life

[sonofdaxjones]

Lol, the scientist at NOAA who created their standards just went rogue and excoriated their latest major report for failing to adhere to their own standards.  Now they're having to revise the entirety of the report which Obama used to sign the US up for stupid climate deals.   

Emissions? The US is on an emissions decline, take your case to China and India.

Oh and stop with all hyperbolic BS.   Humans or Mother Nature will kill everybody with something  long before CO2 even comes remotely close.

[camKSU]

Lol, the scientist at NOAA who created their standards just went rogue and excoriated their latest major report for failing to adhere to their own standards.  Now they're having to revise the entirety of the report which Obama used to sign the US up for stupid climate deals.

Cling to that one guy, and the 3%. The truth is out there, Dax. 

Emissions? The US is on an emissions decline, take your case to China and India.

An emission decline in large part due to regulations put in place by BO44. And as with most science and technology, the US carries the weight in terms of development and research... You want the chinese or indians being the greatest countries on the planet? Do you even 'merica, bro?

Oh and stop with all hyperbolic BS.   Humans or Mother Nature will kill everybody with something  long before CO2 even comes remotely close.

I'm the hyperbolic one? What have you and yours been for the past 8 years under Obama?

[sonofdaxjones]

Lol, the scientist at NOAA who created their standards just went rogue and excoriated their latest major report for failing to adhere to their own standards.  Now they're having to revise the entirety of the report which Obama used to sign the US up for stupid climate deals.

Cling to that one guy, and the 3%. The truth is out there, Dax. 

Emissions? The US is on an emissions decline, take your case to China and India.

An emission decline in large part due to regulations put in place by BO44. And as with most science and technology, the US carries the weight in terms of development and research... You want the chinese or indians being the greatest countries on the planet? Do you even 'merica, bro?

Oh and stop with all hyperbolic BS.   Humans or Mother Nature will kill everybody with something  long before CO2 even comes remotely close.

I'm the hyperbolic one? What have you and yours been for the past 8 years under Obama?

LOL, that "one" guy has essentially destroyed the entire political agenda and horrific "science" of a government agency.  LOL, derp, "just one guy" derp, derp, 

Your "thought" (if you want to call it that) on China and India makes absolutely no rough ridin' sense . . . where in the FSM's giant bowl of meatballs does global leadership reside in the context of countries where people can't even venture outside during many times of the year because of the pollution (See Also:  India and China)?   Get back to me when you have answer that isn't classified under the realm of:  Total Dumbass.

Yes, you're hyperbolic with your "we're all gonna die from global warming" BS 

[sonofdaxjones]

God plays his games, we play ours (NOAA)

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/02/07/even-more-on-the-david-rose-bombshell-article-how-noaa-software-spins-the-agw-game/

In each state, zero or very slight warming was converted to pronounced warming.

[camKSU]

Lol, the scientist at NOAA who created their standards just went rogue and excoriated their latest major report for failing to adhere to their own standards.  Now they're having to revise the entirety of the report which Obama used to sign the US up for stupid climate deals.

Cling to that one guy, and the 3%. The truth is out there, Dax. 

Emissions? The US is on an emissions decline, take your case to China and India.

An emission decline in large part due to regulations put in place by BO44. And as with most science and technology, the US carries the weight in terms of development and research... You want the chinese or indians being the greatest countries on the planet? Do you even 'merica, bro?

Oh and stop with all hyperbolic BS.   Humans or Mother Nature will kill everybody with something  long before CO2 even comes remotely close.

I'm the hyperbolic one? What have you and yours been for the past 8 years under Obama?

LOL, that "one" guy has essentially destroyed the entire political agenda and horrific "science" of a government agency.  LOL, derp, "just one guy" derp, derp, 

Your "thought" (if you want to call it that) on China and India makes absolutely no rough ridin' sense . . . where in the FSM's giant bowl of meatballs does global leadership reside in the context of countries where people can't even venture outside during many times of the year because of the pollution (See Also:  India and China)?   Get back to me when you have answer that isn't classified under the realm of:  Total Dumbass.

Yes, you're hyperbolic with your "we're all gonna die from global warming" BS 

 

We're not going to die, Dax but our kids or grandkids may. Pardon me for thinking outside of my lifetime and what's "easy" for society right this instant. Also, in other news your fake news has been debunked yet again.   

http://mediamatters.org/research/2017/02/07/bogus-daily-mail-story-spearheads-latest-right-wing-assault-climate-change-science/215257

http://grist.org/article/heres-why-the-climategate-2-scandal-is-bunk/

Have you ever thought for a second that the fringe alt-right might just be change averse, clinging to their social strata and "culture", and in the pocket of large multi-national interests... the fossil fuel lobby included? When the same day they confirm the former exxon ceo as SoS, they remove regulations regarding oil, gas and minning and foreign payment disclosures.... It really makes you think. And when a former website owner, flaming white nationalist, is named to the National Security Council by EO without the president even knowing... It really makes you think... Right? If ever there was shady crap going down... Wouldn't it be when this buffoon and trope are in charge?

[sonofdaxjones]

You're just babbling at this juncture Cam.

Here, read an article about a real problem.

? http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/02/07/512634375/map-find-out-what-new-viruses-are-emerging-in-your-backyard?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170208?

[camKSU]

You're just babbling at this juncture Cam.

If you say so, dax. Feel free to dig that head in the sand a little further, I guess.

[sonofdaxjones]

You're gurgling and babbling and have yet to put together a single coherent "thought" on anything.

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh and Media Matters and grist.  That's diving deep into the domain of the ultra alt-left.  Next stop Vox and Daily Kos. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

This does appear to be a big deal. In a nutshell, NOAA decided to dump a bunch of sea temp data collected by buoys, because it didn't show an increase in temperature, and replaced it with data collected by ships (themselves a source of warming), so it could push a new paper ahead of the Paris climate summit disproving the hiatus in global warming. This appears to be more "scientific" fraud to advance the cause. All that's missing now are the emails talking about the need to "hide the decline."

And LOL at citing to Media Matters and Grist as "debunking" a story.

[camKSU]

Oh and Media Matters and grist.  That's diving deep into the domain of the ultra alt-left.  Next stop Vox and Daily Kos.

Feel free to link me a rebuttal to any debunking and I will take a look at it... I won't hold my breath while you dredge breitbart and infowars.

[camKSU]

From the Grist article...

These false allegations were quickly echoed in various blogs and conservative media outlets, and quickly praised in a Sunday press release by Lamar Smith, Texas Republican whose career has been funded by fossil fuels, and whose chairmanship of the House Science, Space, and Technology committee has become what a colleague described as an “ideological crusade” and “witch hunt” against the NOAA paper and its lead author Tom Karl.

David Rose, who has a history of scientifically inaccurate reporting, portrayed this flawed procedural complaint as proof of scandal and dubbed it “Climategate 2.” Just like Climategate was a manufactured scandal that was debunked by eight multiple independent agencies, this attempt at Climategate 2 is “fake news” which will serve as cover for attacking the multiple lines of evidence and overwhelming consensus of the reality of human influence on the climate.

It is worth noting that Lamar Smith is scheduled to hold a hearing on “Making EPA Great Again” this week.

This does appear to be a big deal. In a nutshell, NOAA decided to dump a bunch of sea temp data collected by buoys, because it didn't show an increase in temperature, and replaced it with data collected by ships (themselves a source of warming), so it could push a new paper ahead of the Paris climate summit disproving the hiatus in global warming. This appears to be more "scientific" fraud to advance the cause. All that's missing now are the emails talking about the need to "hide the decline."

"Is the science bad? No. Karl et al. was published in a high-prestige, peer-reviewed journal, where the reviewers were almost certainly eminent scientists external to NCEI and NOAA. More importantly, the Berkley group (originally founded to disprove the NOAA and NASA temperatures recorded but ended up confirming their validity) as well as other external organizations, such as the U.K. Met Office, have all subsequently INDEPENDENTLY replicated the Karl et al. results. That’s the gold standard of science, not some NOAA internal bureaucratic procedure that may or may not have been followed.

Is the Earth continuing to warm? Yes.

While the arguments about ARGO floats vs. WWII shipping sea water injection temperatures vs. Satellite SSTs are fascinating to the dozens of scientists who care about such things, our knowledge of global warming and climate change is built on overwhelming, independent lines of observational evidence, understanding of the basic physics that goes back to the mid-19th century, and our ability to accurately project the overall global warming in computer models for over 40 years. Nothing in the Daily Mail article refutes any of this evidence."
-Retired Rear Admiral David Titley, former NOAA chief operating officer

"Those trying to debunk these studies seem to be grasping at straws and resorting to personal attacks. If they have evidence that these studies are wrong then it should be submitted to the appropriate journals and peer-reviewed. Nothing they’ve pointed to so far seems to hold up. The current attacks should be received with extreme skepticism, given the enormous body of evidence supporting the conclusion that the climate is changing and poses a danger that needs to be addressed. And public officials have an obligation to follow the scientific consensus unless more credible critiques emerge."
-Sherwood Boehlert, retired member of Congress, U.S. House of Representatives 1983-2007

"This is another case of making a mountain out of an anthill, while not telling the public that it is an anthill. The misimpression, that there might be a substantial flaw in climate change analyses, was predictable and surely was realized and even encouraged by those who brought forth this attack. The only censure should be on the heads of those who pretend that there is some significant new revelation and those who aid in the promulgation of this falsehood."
-James Hansen, former director of NASA-GISS

These are just a couple of the responses in just this one article by people in the know, with real credibility.

http://grist.org/article/heres-why-the-climategate-2-scandal-is-bunk/

[sonofdaxjones]

This is the same over-the-top, how dare you question us response that occurs every time the "scientists" get caught cooking (pun intended) the books.

Nearly every time anyone wants to scrutinize the data that's being used to drive political decisions the warmist scientist community huddles up, throws up the walls, fails to respond to FOIA requests and congressional subpoenas and hopes that it all just goes away, so they can keep right on getting the funding from the politicians they curry favor from and for.   Nothing says we're legit like the continual hiding behind bureaucratic walls and constant obfuscation and redirection. 

No one of merit doubts for a second that man isn't impacting the environment (why does this always have to be said?) but the debate from how much or how little man is impacting the overal climate of earth is still very much legitimate and real.   Nothing is more anti-science then the constant proclamation that on this issue, the science is "settled", it's not even close to be settling and probably never will be. 

NOAA has been busted by one of their own, and instead of just owning up to it, along come the same old excuses from the usual suspects.

 

[camKSU]

This is the same over-the-top, how dare you question us response that occurs every time the "scientists" get caught cooking (pun intended) the books.

Nearly every time anyone wants to scrutinize the data that's being used to drive political decisions the warmist scientist community huddles up, throws up the walls, fails to respond to FOIA requests and congressional subpoenas and hopes that it all just goes away, so they can keep right on getting the funding from the politicians they curry favor from and for.   Nothing says we're legit like the continual hiding behind bureaucratic walls and constant obfuscation and redirection. 

No one of merit doubts for a second that man isn't impacting the environment (why does this always have to be said?) but the debate from how much or how little man is impacting the overal climate of earth is still very much legitimate and real.   Nothing is more anti-science then the constant proclamation that on this issue, the science is "settled", it's not even close to be settling and probably never will be. 

NOAA has been busted by one of their own, and instead of just owning up to it, along come the same old excuses from the usual suspects.

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding. 

Keeping beating that drum, Dax. The oil and gas lobby is sincerely appreciative I'm sure.

[sonofdaxjones]

This is the same over-the-top, how dare you question us response that occurs every time the "scientists" get caught cooking (pun intended) the books.

Nearly every time anyone wants to scrutinize the data that's being used to drive political decisions the warmist scientist community huddles up, throws up the walls, fails to respond to FOIA requests and congressional subpoenas and hopes that it all just goes away, so they can keep right on getting the funding from the politicians they curry favor from and for.   Nothing says we're legit like the continual hiding behind bureaucratic walls and constant obfuscation and redirection. 

No one of merit doubts for a second that man isn't impacting the environment (why does this always have to be said?) but the debate from how much or how little man is impacting the overal climate of earth is still very much legitimate and real.   Nothing is more anti-science then the constant proclamation that on this issue, the science is "settled", it's not even close to be settling and probably never will be. 

NOAA has been busted by one of their own, and instead of just owning up to it, along come the same old excuses from the usual suspects.

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding. 

Keeping beating that drum, Dax. The oil and gas lobby is sincerely appreciative I'm sure.

Oh yeah, the oil and gas lobby, the industry that gets 25-30 cents on the dollar of federal subsidies as opposed to inefficient (politically connected) and expensive "green" energy (of which a large chunk is using food and lots of ground water to make energy . . . absurd). 

By all means, continue to join in the usual character assassination routine that is immediately unleashed every time warmest propagandists are caught cooking the books.

You're pooh-poohing away the realities of energy poverty tell me all you I need to know about your whackadoo (sock) mind.

[Tobias]

alex jones is covering this rn fyi

[renocat]

I'm not an alarmist by any means, but the Earth is indeed warming.  Climate change is a real thing.  14 of the last 15 years have been the hottest average global temperatures on record.  The chance that that is just a coincidence is less than 1 divided by all of the stars in the universe.


 

http://m.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/snow-to-disrupt-travel-from-dc-to-new-york-city-and-boston-thursday/70000772
It ain't warming in Philly.  Coldest winter since last year.   That dMn bloated rodent thing predicts winter every years.  Squirrels.  They are the true measurements of climate.  Squirrels in Reno county have big nuts and food stashed all over, sure signs of  tough winter.  Animals don't do nut storing for the fun of it.  Ants are another indicator.  They are no whereabouts right now.  If it was so dang warm they would be out of their holes anting.  Critters don't make up stupid facts to make lazy bastard scientists rich.

[camKSU]

This is the same over-the-top, how dare you question us response that occurs every time the "scientists" get caught cooking (pun intended) the books.

Nearly every time anyone wants to scrutinize the data that's being used to drive political decisions the warmist scientist community huddles up, throws up the walls, fails to respond to FOIA requests and congressional subpoenas and hopes that it all just goes away, so they can keep right on getting the funding from the politicians they curry favor from and for.   Nothing says we're legit like the continual hiding behind bureaucratic walls and constant obfuscation and redirection. 

No one of merit doubts for a second that man isn't impacting the environment (why does this always have to be said?) but the debate from how much or how little man is impacting the overal climate of earth is still very much legitimate and real.   Nothing is more anti-science then the constant proclamation that on this issue, the science is "settled", it's not even close to be settling and probably never will be. 

NOAA has been busted by one of their own, and instead of just owning up to it, along come the same old excuses from the usual suspects.

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding. 

Keeping beating that drum, Dax. The oil and gas lobby is sincerely appreciative I'm sure.

Oh yeah, the oil and gas lobby, the industry that gets 25-30 cents on the dollar of federal subsidies as opposed to inefficient (politically connected) and expensive "green" energy (of which a large chunk is using food and lots of ground water to make energy . . . absurd). 

By all means, continue to join in the usual character assassination routine that is immediately unleashed every time warmest propagandists are caught cooking the books.

Huh. Turns out there are reasonable and rational conservatives out there when it comes to climate change and fossil fuels. The resident nut-jobs here could have fooled me.

https://newrepublic.com/article/140518/republicans-beg-party-finally-something-climate-change

[camKSU]

Oh and Media Matters and grist.  That's diving deep into the domain of the ultra alt-left.  Next stop Vox and Daily Kos.

Feel free to link me a rebuttal to any debunking and I will take a look at it... I won't hold my breath while you dredge breitbart and infowars.

Wikipedia, that ultra-alt-left organization we all know and love, has decided to not allow the Daily Mail (where this whole climategate2 originated) to serve as a source.

Maybe the right should start their own wikipedia... Maybe call it Fibipedia^TM

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website?CMP=twt_a-media_b-gdnmedia

[sonofdaxjones]

You keep coming at this from the angle that I don't believe in climate change.

That's why you repeatedly look so stupid.

[camKSU]

You keep coming at this from the angle that I don't believe in climate change.

That's why you repeatedly look so stupid.

Ah yes. I look stupid. Trump's president, Dax is a genius, we live in upside down world. I forgot.

[sonofdaxjones]

You keep coming at this from the angle that I don't believe in climate change.

That's why you repeatedly look so stupid.

Ah yes. I look stupid. Trump's president, Dax is a genius, we live in upside downworld. I forgot.

Nice tapout.

Stay stupidly enraged.  It's funny.

[renocat]

People in my herd do not deny climate change.  Climate has had swings in variation for thousands of years.  Man has altered the environment and it affects weather - urban asphalt or plowing the prairies.  My herd doesn't accept the conclusions from chicken little doomsdayers who are observing something and then using false data and mathematical gymnastics to come up a scenario that becomes a weapon to achieve the leftist aim of one world government, replacing personal liberty with state control, and creating a communist economy.  Many are whipping up hysteria so they can enrich themselves.

[Panjandrum]

I'm not an alarmist by any means, but the Earth is indeed warming.  Climate change is a real thing.  14 of the last 15 years have been the hottest average global temperatures on record.  The chance that that is just a coincidence is less than 1 divided by all of the stars in the universe.


 

http://m.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/snow-to-disrupt-travel-from-dc-to-new-york-city-and-boston-thursday/70000772
It ain't warming in Philly.  Coldest winter since last year.   That dMn bloated rodent thing predicts winter every years.  Squirrels.  They are the true measurements of climate.  Squirrels in Reno county have big nuts and food stashed all over, sure signs of  tough winter.  Animals don't do nut storing for the fun of it.  Ants are another indicator.  They are no whereabouts right now.  If it was so dang warm they would be out of their holes anting.  Critters don't make up stupid facts to make lazy bastard scientists rich.

It was like 70 degrees in Philly yesterday (I was there), and then they were getting a foot of snow today.

But, hey, that's normal.