Benghazi Hearing

[sonofdaxjones]

No one is the least surprised that there were CIA in Libya . . . hell they helped bring about the regime change in that country, and they're in the process of trying to bring about regime change in another country in the region.   What no one can really explain is . . . why?   At worst Libya and Syria are/were nothing but mild annoyances in the grand scheme of things and yet still, they WERE relatively stable and understandably calculating entities operating pretty much as typical nation states.

In turn we have and soon will have nothing but chaos and the CIA is playing an integral role in much of this process.

So spare me this faux overly simplistic disgust along the lines of, "well hell,  you want us to tell you who the spies are" . . . that's bullshit and a cop out.

Do you think the U.S. triggered the incidents or merely tried to steer an inevitable shipwreck towards a friendlier shore?

So in other words, as long as the perception is that it went the U.S.'s way, than it's okay.   Sort of a blinders on, pro U.S. hegemony view of the world.   

Just say No to Regime Change . . . unless the Democrat administration says it worked out for the best . . . and the CIA can rally the troops and the arms for the next regime change.

Is that an answer? I bet dax would be a treat in a deposition.

Sure it's an answer . . . and yeah, I'd be a treat in anything.

[ednksu]

So in essence the U.S. engaged in regime change in Libya because Gaddafi was a bad guy and wasn't for all inclusive freedom for the various sects of people in Libya?

Golly, I thought regime change based on those ideals was wholly unacceptable.

"Local Insurgents" is oxymoron of n'th degree in this day and age and in that region of the world, and when F-15E's and Cruise Missiles are flying overhead in order to support the "insurgency" than it's really state sponsored regime change.

Once again, just because our interest align doesn't mean its a conspiracy like you want it to be. 

Also your colonialist views betray your points once again when you confine these people's identity to the western constructed states imposed on them.

I'd actually buy into what you're saying, but when the British Special Forces are rolling in, the "rebels" are pictured using some very high tech gear only found in Western military usage, and the F-15's are dropping guided munitions overhead . . . it all rings a little hollow.

They're using motorola talkabouts from Sam's club! That doesn't prove that its a western operation either, all it shows is that they had material support, something we already knew and that the US and other western countries have admitted to.

[felix rex]

It is pretty hilarious that we have someone on here that is both in a position to:
1) provide more details about what actually happened
2) would probably be willing to do it

yet almost everyone would rather just spout off their own half-baked theories based on media reports that talk to sources like the one we have right here.  It is a fascinating study in epistemic closure.

I have a friend with a boring job title who was quoted in the media regarding the September protests. He had permission from the press office and gave them his full name, etc. They quoted him as "a senior Western diplomat with knowledge of the incident" or something. So we still call him variations of that sometimes.

great episode premise right there.

Tentative title: "Mormon, Mor problems"

Do any grizzly veteran types lay down profanity tirades in front of the Mormons? That would be great. If not, I'm sure you could add it for laughs.

And sometimes when they bring snacks they make things like kahlua cake just so the mormons can't have any (mormons are notorious office snack hogs).

[felix rex]

No one is the least surprised that there were CIA in Libya . . . hell they helped bring about the regime change in that country, and they're in the process of trying to bring about regime change in another country in the region.   What no one can really explain is . . . why?   At worst Libya and Syria are/were nothing but mild annoyances in the grand scheme of things and yet still, they WERE relatively stable and understandably calculating entities operating pretty much as typical nation states.

In turn we have and soon will have nothing but chaos and the CIA is playing an integral role in much of this process.

So spare me this faux overly simplistic disgust along the lines of, "well hell,  you want us to tell you who the spies are" . . . that's bullshit and a cop out.

Do you think the U.S. triggered the incidents or merely tried to steer an inevitable shipwreck towards a friendlier shore?

So in other words, as long as the perception is that it went the U.S.'s way, than it's okay.   Sort of a blinders on, pro U.S. hegemony view of the world.   

Just say No to Regime Change . . . unless the Democrat administration says it worked out for the best . . . and the CIA can rally the troops and the arms for the next regime change.

Is that an answer? I bet dax would be a treat in a deposition.

Sure it's an answer . . . and yeah, I'd be a treat in anything.

I agree with this. I think we'd have a great time.

[sonofdaxjones]

So in essence the U.S. engaged in regime change in Libya because Gaddafi was a bad guy and wasn't for all inclusive freedom for the various sects of people in Libya?

Golly, I thought regime change based on those ideals was wholly unacceptable.

"Local Insurgents" is oxymoron of n'th degree in this day and age and in that region of the world, and when F-15E's and Cruise Missiles are flying overhead in order to support the "insurgency" than it's really state sponsored regime change.

Once again, just because our interest align doesn't mean its a conspiracy like you want it to be. 

Also your colonialist views betray your points once again when you confine these people's identity to the western constructed states imposed on them.

I'd actually buy into what you're saying, but when the British Special Forces are rolling in, the "rebels" are pictured using some very high tech gear only found in Western military usage, and the F-15's are dropping guided munitions overhead . . . it all rings a little hollow.

They're using motorola talkabouts from Sam's club! That doesn't prove that its a western operation either, all it shows is that they had material support, something we already knew and that the US and other western countries have admitted to.

edn's definition of "material support":



We wanted the poor Libyan civilians to have a little scrap metal to sell.

[OregonSmock]

Oh please EDN, I doubt Fox News puts the lack of response by the military in Benghazi in the context of a $1 Trillion Dollar Plus annual military/industrial/complex.   Those types love that stuff.

The only person who sounds like a Fox News Guy is your conservative hard on inducing comment about "Overwhelming Force" in 24 hours.

I think you're just lashing out because things like your "indigenous populations" rising up thoughts are being excoriated again and again as a myriad of news sources from the NYT on down are outlining the heavy CIA/Western Intelligence involvement in all of this upheaval.   Libya was obviously a NATO/Western Intelligence operation and lots of people are asking why?   Not saying Gaddafi was a good guy (but hey, the U.S. is more than willing to arm their favorite thug regimes and Theocratic States to the teeth), but he had renounced terrorism, had renounced WMD desires etc. etc.   But wait, didn't he aspire for a North African Union that would be less dependent on Western economic mechanisms and influence . . . hmmm??    Have the Chinese been exerting more influence in North Africa in regards to things like energy production?  Funny how AQ seems to pop up in places the Chinese are poking around in, obviously forcing the U.S. to send in JSOC/Military resources and other "aid".

So once again, a right and proper series questions to be asking is . . . .why was Benghazi teaming with CIA spooks?   Were they there to weed out AQ, or get the usual AQ suspects ready to ship off to Syria, or was it some sort of CIA rendition destination?

So do you have a problem with the fact that the United States has intelligence operations in other countries, or is it the fact that those intelligence operations try to manipulate things to benefit the United States?

[sonofdaxjones]

Oh please EDN, I doubt Fox News puts the lack of response by the military in Benghazi in the context of a $1 Trillion Dollar Plus annual military/industrial/complex.   Those types love that stuff.

The only person who sounds like a Fox News Guy is your conservative hard on inducing comment about "Overwhelming Force" in 24 hours.

I think you're just lashing out because things like your "indigenous populations" rising up thoughts are being excoriated again and again as a myriad of news sources from the NYT on down are outlining the heavy CIA/Western Intelligence involvement in all of this upheaval.   Libya was obviously a NATO/Western Intelligence operation and lots of people are asking why?   Not saying Gaddafi was a good guy (but hey, the U.S. is more than willing to arm their favorite thug regimes and Theocratic States to the teeth), but he had renounced terrorism, had renounced WMD desires etc. etc.   But wait, didn't he aspire for a North African Union that would be less dependent on Western economic mechanisms and influence . . . hmmm??    Have the Chinese been exerting more influence in North Africa in regards to things like energy production?  Funny how AQ seems to pop up in places the Chinese are poking around in, obviously forcing the U.S. to send in JSOC/Military resources and other "aid".

So once again, a right and proper series questions to be asking is . . . .why was Benghazi teaming with CIA spooks?   Were they there to weed out AQ, or get the usual AQ suspects ready to ship off to Syria, or was it some sort of CIA rendition destination?

So do you have a problem with the fact that the United States has intelligence operations in other countries, or is it the fact that those intelligence operations try to manipulate things to benefit the United States?

Not when it has the potential of getting 10's of thousands of more people killed, and the potential of turning the region into a bigger chowder keg than it already is.   Not when it has the potential of allowing arms that were under the control of the existing regime to then be funneled to places all over the region . . . which is what happened in Libya, and could very easily happen in Syria.

[felix rex]

So basically, you're against the Arab Spring.

[ednksu]

So basically, you're against the CIArab Spring.

fify

[michigancat]

And sometimes when they bring snacks they make things like kahlua cake just so the mormons can't have any (mormons are notorious office snack hogs).

oh man. when my mormon in-laws visited last summer, we were at this fair that had free ice cream, but there was only one flavor and it had coffee beans in it. THEY WENT APESHIT ON IT. Did their two year old son enjoy it? YOU BET YOUR ASS HE DID. SECONDS FOR EVERYONE.

[felix rex]

And sometimes when they bring snacks they make things like kahlua cake just so the mormons can't have any (mormons are notorious office snack hogs).

oh man. when my mormon in-laws visited last summer, we were at this fair that had free ice cream, but there was only one flavor and it had coffee beans in it. THEY WENT APESHIT ON IT. Did their two year old son enjoy it? YOU BET YOUR ASS HE DID. SECONDS FOR EVERYONE.

Episode

[sonofdaxjones]

So basically, you're against the Arab Spring.

LOL, good one.

I'm dating myself, but if I were to have a theme song for the Arab Spring and the U.S. reaction and support of say, oh, the opposition in Bahrain, I'd probably use Depeche Mode's "Enjoy the Silence".

But then again, there's the whole crazy Fifth Fleet thing and all that.

If you don't fully support the U.S./CIA unknown endgame in the "Arab Spring" (replete with Cruise Missiles and Guided munitions when needed) than you hate Democracy and 'Merika!!

It's like the same movie only in an alternative universe.

[OregonSmock]

So basically, you're against the Arab Spring.

LOL, good one.

I'm dating myself, but if I were to have a theme song for the Arab Spring and the U.S. reaction and support of say, oh, the opposition in Bahrain, I'd probably use Depeche Mode's "Enjoy the Silence".

But then again, there's the whole crazy Fifth Fleet thing and all that.

If you don't fully support the U.S./CIA unknown endgame in the "Arab Spring" (replete with Cruise Missiles and Guided munitions when needed) than you hate Democracy and 'Merika!!

It's like the same movie only in an alternative universe.

History repeats itself, which is part of the problem.  It would be great if everyone could just sing kumbaya and leave each other alone, but that's not in our nature as humans.

[CNS]

And sometimes when they bring snacks they make things like kahlua cake just so the mormons can't have any (mormons are notorious office snack hogs).

oh man. when my mormon in-laws visited last summer, we were at this fair that had free ice cream, but there was only one flavor and it had coffee beans in it. THEY WENT APESHIT ON IT. Did their two year old son enjoy it? YOU BET YOUR ASS HE DID. SECONDS FOR EVERYONE.

Episode

This is why it will never get made.  Too all over the place.  I mean, is it about Cairo, is it about Mormons, is it about weird street food, etc.  Maybe a sketch comedy, but not a normal sitcom. 

[felix rex]

And sometimes when they bring snacks they make things like kahlua cake just so the mormons can't have any (mormons are notorious office snack hogs).

oh man. when my mormon in-laws visited last summer, we were at this fair that had free ice cream, but there was only one flavor and it had coffee beans in it. THEY WENT APESHIT ON IT. Did their two year old son enjoy it? YOU BET YOUR ASS HE DID. SECONDS FOR EVERYONE.

Episode

This is why it will never get made.  Too all over the place.  I mean, is it about Cairo, is it about Mormons, is it about weird street food, etc.  Maybe a sketch comedy, but not a normal sitcom.

Well, that's myopic.

[CNS]

And sometimes when they bring snacks they make things like kahlua cake just so the mormons can't have any (mormons are notorious office snack hogs).

oh man. when my mormon in-laws visited last summer, we were at this fair that had free ice cream, but there was only one flavor and it had coffee beans in it. THEY WENT APESHIT ON IT. Did their two year old son enjoy it? YOU BET YOUR ASS HE DID. SECONDS FOR EVERYONE.

Episode

This is why it will never get made.  Too all over the place.  I mean, is it about Cairo, is it about Mormons, is it about weird street food, etc.  Maybe a sketch comedy, but not a normal sitcom.

Well, that's myopic.

Maybe if you get the right producer.  Like Marky Mark or something.   

[michigancat]

I'm thinking something similar to Veep.

[felix rex]

I'm thinking something similar to Veep.

I was thinking more Sports Night. Also, I want Sorkin walking dialogues and lots of cringy awkward silences. I will not bend on this.

[michigancat]

I'm thinking something similar to Veep.

I was thinking more Sports Night. Also, I want Sorkin walking dialogues and lots of cringy awkward silences. I will not bend on this.

that would work, too. stay true to your vision.

[OK_Cat]

seinfeld-ish. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Man imagine the good times and story lines if Romney had been elected.

[michigancat]

Man imagine the good times and story lines if Romney had been elected.

you could set it during the 2012 election, theoretically. I'm not sure you'll need to, though.

[OK_Cat]

speaking of mormons - my unaware co-worker is mormon and her daughter is getting married soon.  apparently, us non-mormon people aren't allowed to go into their church thing.  (temple?)  so they have a reception at a different location where they do a ring swap. 

seems weird to be so secretive or whatevs. 

could be an episode.  like the main guy forgot his mormon card and they won't let him in, and his friends are saving him a seat and get really frustrated that people try and sit down and he isn't there.

[michigancat]

speaking of mormons - my unaware co-worker is mormon and her daughter is getting married soon.  apparently, us non-mormon people aren't allowed to go into their church thing.  (temple?)  so they have a reception at a different location where they do a ring swap. 

seems weird to be so secretive or whatevs. 

could be an episode.  like the main guy forgot his mormon card and they won't let him in, and his friends are saving him a seat and get really frustrated that people try and sit down and he isn't there.

Yeah, you have to have a "temple recommend" to actually go to the wedding. My wife couldn't go to either of her sisters' weddings. Part of receiving a recommend is having your finances analyzed to make sure you are tithing enough.

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/10141-tithing-there-standard-time-one-must-have-been-paying.html

would be a great episode, if there was a mormon temple in friggin cairo. (Of course, there is one in Nigeria and one in Rome which could make for a great trip in which the non-mormon's travel for the wedding only to find out they don't actually get to go into the wedding). (also all mormons get married while students at BYU)

[CNS]

You realize  you guys are basically rewriting Big Love with some terrorists mixed in there, right?

Also, the episode about the magical undergarments should be the one where the guy gets stabbed by the homeless guy and you could make fun of how magical they are or something.