Author Topic: New To Investing Thread  (Read 327081 times)

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Offline ben ji

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #350 on: April 18, 2013, 10:47:40 AM »
so my 401(k) is all in VFIFX and it's at around $15k after like 2.75 years with the company

I also have around $1200 in a schwab investor fund invested in SWDSX

am I doing anything stupid, and if so, what can I do that's smarter?  move the $1200 with schwab into a vanguard roth?  do roths have minimum investments?  my main thing is that represents a decent chunk of my current savings and I would like to keep it easily accessible in case I have a big financial emergency, so if a roth means I can't pull it out easily, I don't want to do that.


My advice is to build up more of an emergency fund first so you dont have to worry about that $1200 then move that $1200 into a roth IRA and keep making contributions to the roth after maxing your employer match on the 401k.

But yes, in an emergency you can withdraw the principal of your roth IRA with no penalty.

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #351 on: April 18, 2013, 10:48:32 AM »
Doubt he'd beat the market by 3% but would probably beat what I'd do on my own by more than 3%.

Matching the market is easy. That's essentially what the best tips in this thread have pointed to imo.
I could handle dumping all the cash into index funds. My problem is knowing when to sell the company stock for proper earnings and favorable tax treatment. Might be just my ignorance that scares me.

Why don't you just sell all of it whenever it becomes available to sell under the rules? like, set an annual date and unload however much you can.  or have you amassed a shitload of it? I'd talk to a CPA instead of some guy that's going to charge you 3% for the tax stuff.

Offline Rams

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #352 on: April 18, 2013, 10:53:43 AM »
Doubt he'd beat the market by 3% but would probably beat what I'd do on my own by more than 3%.

Matching the market is easy. That's essentially what the best tips in this thread have pointed to imo.
I could handle dumping all the cash into index funds. My problem is knowing when to sell the company stock for proper earnings and favorable tax treatment. Might be just my ignorance that scares me.
wait, are you talking stock options or do you just have regular company stock?
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Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #353 on: April 18, 2013, 11:18:29 AM »
#temo  :emawkid:

still not on board with market timing.

It's not market timing!  :shakesfist:  ( :D)

it is absolutely market timing.

(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)

I absolutely know what I'm talking about.  I went all OCD on this a while ago.  I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary.  Also the stimulus antibody response thing.  It's also text on a screen with no visual aids.  I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.

You also can't seem to come up with a good link explaining it. You also seem to just be making crap up and cherry picking dates to start and end with.

I'm guessing you're talking about doing something like this?

http://www.jobenjoy.com/using-simple-moving-averages-to-time-the-market/

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #354 on: April 18, 2013, 11:22:06 AM »
#temo  :emawkid:

still not on board with market timing.

It's not market timing!  :shakesfist:  ( :D)

it is absolutely market timing.

(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)

I absolutely know what I'm talking about.  I went all OCD on this a while ago.  I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary.  Also the stimulus antibody response thing.  It's also text on a screen with no visual aids.  I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.

You also can't seem to come up with a good link explaining it. You also seem to just be making crap up and cherry picking dates to start and end with.

I'm guessing you're talking about doing something like this?

http://www.jobenjoy.com/using-simple-moving-averages-to-time-the-market/

I didn't learn about it on the internet.  I'd hate to post a link I'm not familiar with and have you guys go all torch and pitchfork on it.  Willing to read a book?

Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #355 on: April 18, 2013, 11:39:14 AM »
Is the book on Amazon?

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #356 on: April 18, 2013, 12:41:28 PM »
It amazes me how little people know about basic investing.

*Not talking about little people

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #357 on: April 18, 2013, 12:42:13 PM »
It amazes me how little people know about basic investing.

*Not talking about little people

that's a good use of *

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #358 on: April 18, 2013, 01:10:56 PM »
It amazes me how little people know about basic investing.

*Not talking about little people

that's a good use of *

 :D

Offline tdaver

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #359 on: April 18, 2013, 02:46:44 PM »
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones

An EJ guy has been bugging me to invest in "Advisory Solutions" for a couple years now.  There's an up front 4-5% fee and ~2% annually (1.35% EJ fee plus fund fees).

I'm glad I read this thread.  I feel much better about ignoring him all this time.

Offline kostakio

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #360 on: April 18, 2013, 04:27:44 PM »
I started out w/ EJ after college, went door to door a little here in mhk for practice then did their training program at the home office in St Louis. They've made some drastic changes recently and have really gone down hill. They push their advisors to put everything in "advisory solution" (fee-based) and just do nothing. When SteveDave says financial advisors don't do what's in your best interest, he's talking about Edward Jones

An EJ guy has been bugging me to invest in "Advisory Solutions" for a couple years now.  There's an up front 4-5% fee and ~2% annually (1.35% EJ fee plus fund fees).

I'm glad I read this thread.  I feel much better about ignoring him all this time.

Good lord that is a rip off.  It seems there is an EJ office on every corner in joco.  I gather they are one of the few full service places that goes after lower net worth type of clients.  The sad thing is I think they actually get quite a bit of that business around here. 

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #361 on: April 19, 2013, 08:28:02 AM »
If you have $10k you can invest in Vanguard Admiral shares.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/content/Funds/FundsAdmiralSharesOverviewJSP.jsp

They have lower expense ratios then the already low expense ratio Vanguard shares. I have an S&P index admiral fund (VFIAX) with them at 0.05%. If you just want to match the market it's pretty fool proof. And there are no purchase or redemption fees. Not really "new to investing" advice depending on what kind of money you are sitting on though.

EDIT: It's actually the fund Warren is whipping wall street's ass with right now:

http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2013/01/25/buffett-wins-with-an-index-fund/?mod=yahoobarrons

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #362 on: April 19, 2013, 08:59:40 AM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

Also want to add that I would probably want to punch GC Hawk long before Emo if I met them both.  Plus, MIcat's character would not be complete w/o Emo

Offline WonderMeal

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #363 on: April 19, 2013, 09:20:49 AM »
Glad to hear my real-life friends Pete, SD, and Warren Buffet (known EMAW) tout the virtues of Index funds. No surprise they're  :kstategrad:.

This post is pretty DNR, so I'm going to bold the highlights.

For those of you new to investing--I'm a big proponent of using Charles Schwab. Their website gives you all the info you'll ever need to know,  but more importantly, their customer service is outstanding. Hold times are negligible, all customer service reps are happy, all call centers are based in Phoenix or Denver, and other banking products are free/outstanding.  Schwab really made a young WonderMeal feel comfortable with investing and answered all of my investor n00b questions, which is why I think they're great for new investors. (Note: I don't pay them for investing advice, since I'm just trying to match the market. I just ask them questions when I have old 401ks/403bs to roll over, etc.) I can't speak for other brokerage firms and I'm sure some others are great, but I've been with Schwab for almost a decade and don't see a need to see anyone else.

my 401 is in a vanguard target fund, vfifx. it's done really well for me, especially over the last year (13.44%).

That return is great, and 'grats, but I think the S&P500 grew by 16% in 2012. The expense ratio of the index fund SD and his Omaha friend use is .13% lower than VFIFX. However, the fact that target date funds become 'safer' near your retirement age makes the slightly higher expense ratio justifiable, and could be a good option for our real life friend KSC.

For investor n00bs who have been swayed by my Schwab sales pitch, I have had lots of success with SWPPX (tracks S&P 500, expense ratio of .08%) and SNFXX (tracks S&P plus the next-largest 500 companies, expense ratio of .29%). Almost every time I have tried to get cute and find mutual funds/stocks/ETFs to outperform these two guys, I have lost.

See you in a few years down at Del Boca Vista (ocean view), SD, Pete, and KSC!

Offline Rams

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #364 on: April 19, 2013, 09:25:54 AM »
If you have $10k you can invest in Vanguard Admiral shares.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/content/Funds/FundsAdmiralSharesOverviewJSP.jsp

They have lower expense ratios then the already low expense ratio Vanguard shares. I have an S&P index admiral fund (VFIAX) with them at 0.05%. If you just want to match the market it's pretty fool proof. And there are no purchase or redemption fees. Not really "new to investing" advice depending on what kind of money you are sitting on though.

EDIT: It's actually the fund Warren is whipping wall street's ass with right now:

http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2013/01/25/buffett-wins-with-an-index-fund/?mod=yahoobarrons
that warren buffett bet was awesome...and fairly predictable. I'll never understand why seemingly intelligent (very wealthy successful people) continue to give money to hedge funds. a lot of them charge 2 and 20 which is rough ridin' criminal, but I heard on cnbc the other day that one of the most popular ones (can't remember the manager) charges 3 and 50!  :sdeek:  I mean I guess if they can legally steal from rich dumbfucks then good for them. :dunno:
"Son. This is why we are wildcats. Hard work, pride, the heart of this country. And if that's not enough for you, you can just move to California with your punk friends."

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #365 on: April 19, 2013, 09:29:30 AM »
ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline ben ji

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #366 on: April 19, 2013, 09:31:54 AM »
ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?

Lady will just dig it all up and use the gold as chew toys but sure give it a shot.

Offline slobber

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #367 on: April 19, 2013, 09:53:17 AM »
ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?

Lady will just dig it all up and use the gold as chew toys but sure give it a shot.
LADY EATS GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!! :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:

Offline mocat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #368 on: April 19, 2013, 09:55:03 AM »
WonderMeal, great entrance. That was like the "Enter Sandman" of first posts in a thread

Offline ben ji

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #369 on: April 19, 2013, 10:02:03 AM »
ben ji, im probably just going to invest most of my spare cash in gold and bury it in your backyard. cool?

Lady will just dig it all up and use the gold as chew toys but sure give it a shot.
LADY EATS GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!! :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:
You think I would let the neighbors see my dog with silver? Come on broooooo :kstategrad:

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #370 on: April 19, 2013, 10:08:50 AM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.

Offline kostakio

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #371 on: April 19, 2013, 10:35:28 AM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

Also want to add that I would probably want to punch GC Hawk long before Emo if I met them both.  Plus, MIcat's character would not be complete w/o Emo

It takes as long to open an account and fund it with "a guy" as it does to open one on-line.  Once you've done that it takes about 10 seconds to buy one of the index funds people have recomended here.   Honestly it's probably more work to use a guy because you have to deal with him and his stupid assistant rather then just doing it yourself. 

There are quality financial advisors out there but you younger guys just starting out don't need one and the good ones don't want your business either.  You can always find one as you get older and your finances become more complex. 

Offline Rams

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #372 on: April 19, 2013, 10:42:41 AM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

Also want to add that I would probably want to punch GC Hawk long before Emo if I met them both.  Plus, MIcat's character would not be complete w/o Emo

It takes as long to open an account and fund it with "a guy" as it does to open one on-line.  Once you've done that it takes about 10 seconds to buy one of the index funds people have recomended here.   Honestly it's probably more work to use a guy because you have to deal with him and his stupid assistant rather then just doing it yourself. 

There are quality financial advisors out there but you younger guys just starting out don't need one and the good ones don't want your business either.  You can always find one as you get older and your finances become more complex.

good advice, fwiw
"Son. This is why we are wildcats. Hard work, pride, the heart of this country. And if that's not enough for you, you can just move to California with your punk friends."

Offline GoodForAnother

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #373 on: April 19, 2013, 11:08:06 AM »
For investor n00bs who have been swayed by my Schwab sales pitch, I have had lots of success with SWPPX (tracks S&P 500, expense ratio of .08%) and SNFXX (tracks S&P plus the next-largest 500 companies, expense ratio of .29%). Almost every time I have tried to get cute and find mutual funds/stocks/ETFs to outperform these two guys, I have lost.

I have about 1200 in Schwab in SWDSX but based on what you just said I am moving the majority of my shares over to SWPPX (all of them that can be moved without a redemption fee).  I have a checking/savings/investment account with Schwab and they have by far the best customer service of any financial company I have interacted with (which is most of them).

I sort of just picked SWDSX at random but this thread has completely sold me on indexes so I'm just going to move it all over there and set it and forget, then get a Roth in the next year or two when I have more available to invest (paying for a wedding right now).
emaw

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #374 on: April 19, 2013, 12:47:53 PM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'.  I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.

DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.