Does God Exist?

[Stevesie60]

There's no reason to be a dick. Especially when you can't even comprehend my post.  I won't accuse you of being so intellectually insecure that you need to belittle and lash out of people...  But if the shoe fits.

Anyway, How do you explain empathy?  Do I have empathy only because if I don't, I might be condemned to a fiery eternity in hell by some authoritative figure?  Do you have a conscious?  Do you think it's exclusive to Christians?

1. It's the nature of goEMAW to be a dick during arguments. It's in jest.
2. It's funny because in general (not as much in this thread, but definitely earlier in this thread) it's pretty common to make fun of deists. I thought it'd be funny to go the opposite way. I have been refraining this entire time, but figured when you didn't seem to comprehend my post that it would be a good time to break it out.
3. I believe if we are made in God's image, it would be human nature to have empathy for others. I do not believe it is exclusive to Christians, or even deists, as I had plenty of empathy for others when I was an atheist and have lots of atheist friends who are great people and care about the well being of others.

[Panjandrum]

So you're saying it's human nature to have morals?

If you believe that humans are animals (with a higher level of intelligence), our base instinct is for the preservation of our species, and a part of that is protecting the "herd".  Therefore, there are societal norms that we will enforce on the whole so we can survive.

You see this in nature.  Go to the zoo and stare at meerkats for a while.  Honestly, just watching their social structure for about twenty minutes helped reinforce my thoughts on that subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerkats

[Stevesie60]

So you're saying it's human nature to have morals?

If you believe that humans are animals (with a higher level of intelligence), our base instinct is for the preservation of our species, and a part of that is protecting the "herd".  Therefore, there are societal norms that we will enforce on the whole so we can survive.

Best explanation I've heard. Thanks, Panj.

[chum1]

It's wrong to torture cats, you preservation of species idiots.

[michigancat]

So you're saying it's human nature to have morals?

I think most morals could be explained as ways the species tries to advance.

I've read some people trying to make a case for that. They were pretty bad explanations. Do you have anything you've read you could link or care to explain this stance any further?

Homosexuality.  Considered immoral by most religions. In nature however, sometimes essential. Some amphibians physically change gender in times of low population and will engage in same sex relationships in times of high populations. 

What in the world are you talking about? I'm asking why people in all societies, even atheists, consider some certain things to be immoral. Things like lying and stealing are all considered bad. I haven't heard a good reason why this would be the case if there wasn't a God. My question was does michigancat (or you, if you can grasp the concept of this post) have an explanation for why people want to be good/fair to others even when it doesn't benefit themselves.

Being good to each other benefits the species. The species dies out if everyone murders each other.

Stealing is bad because it creates conflict. If everyone in the tribe is stealing from each other, the tribe splits up and boom, you're rough ridin' eaten by a sabre-toothed tiger if the tribe doesn't kill everyone on their own. Lying is considered wrong because it leads to mistrust which leads to tribes falling apart and everyone getting eaten by sabre-toothed tigers.

Thinking homosexuality is morally wrong could be rooted in the fact that homosexuals are less likely to reproduce, and if they do, their offspring will be less likely to reproduce. And I imagine gene pools have a general aversion to members of the gene pool that are vastly different from themselves.

[HeinBallz]

There's no reason to be a dick. Especially when you can't even comprehend my post.  I won't accuse you of being so intellectually insecure that you need to belittle and lash out of people...  But if the shoe fits.

Anyway, How do you explain empathy?  Do I have empathy only because if I don't, I might be condemned to a fiery eternity in hell by some authoritative figure?  Do you have a conscious?  Do you think it's exclusive to Christians?

1. It's the nature of goEMAW to be a dick during arguments. It's in jest.
2. It's funny because in general (not as much in this thread, but definitely earlier in this thread) it's pretty common to make fun of deists. I thought it'd be funny to go the opposite way. I have been refraining this entire time, but figured when you didn't seem to comprehend my post that it would be a good time to break it out.
3. I believe if we are made in God's image, it would be human nature to have empathy for others. I do not believe it is exclusive to Christians, or even deists, as I had plenty of empathy for others when I was an atheist and have lots of atheist friends who are great people and care about the well being of others.

1. I'm aware of the atmosphere within goEMAW. But your timing made you appear small and insecure.  Do what you want; but my response was not a defensive act, more of a friend placing a hand on your shoulder letting you know everyone could see your balls hanging out.

2. I don't think you understand what rusty was suggesting if you couldn't accept my response.  And who said I was an atheist?

3.  I can accept being made in gods image.  But I have an extremely different perspective on what god is. 

[Mrs. Gooch]

I like to think of "God" as a kid playing with his toys. Sometimes he gets called away and and sometimes he gets upset and smashes all the toys. He's like some kind of higher being which our puny minds can't understand, but he's just a child higher being.

[Stevesie60]

Do what you want; but my response was not a defensive act, more of a friend placing a hand on your shoulder letting you know everyone could see your balls hanging out.

Lol. Alright, bud.

[michigancat]

It's wrong to torture cats, you preservation of species idiots.

cats kill mice and keep disease away. Thanks for preserving our species you idiot cats!

[chum1]

It's wrong to torture cats, you preservation of species idiots.

cats kill mice and keep disease away. Thanks for preserving our species you idiot cats!

A cat that's been tortured can still kill mice.

[michigancat]

It's wrong to torture cats, you preservation of species idiots.

cats kill mice and keep disease away. Thanks for preserving our species you idiot cats!

A cat that's been tortured can still kill mice.

as well as a healthy cat? LOL, whatevs

[Panjandrum]

So you're saying it's human nature to have morals?

If you believe that humans are animals (with a higher level of intelligence), our base instinct is for the preservation of our species, and a part of that is protecting the "herd".  Therefore, there are societal norms that we will enforce on the whole so we can survive.

Best explanation I've heard. Thanks, Panj.

Thanks.  I don't like talking about "morals".  I look at things as "norms".

Most animals stamp out dischord in their herds because it upsets the herd.  Lying, stealing, infidelity, greed, etc. are all things that cause discord between members of the herd, therefore, we look down on them, and in some cases punish them, because we are trying to bring harmony back to the group.

You can see a lot of this in mammals.  The more "evolved" the species is, the more social norms you see them enforce.  Primates, specifically, exhibit a lot of "human" traits in their social interactions.  The thought is that the more intelligent we become, the more intricate our social interactions, and the more advanced our concepts of right/wrong, moral/immoral, etc. are.

[Panjandrum]

It's wrong to torture cats, you preservation of species idiots.

We are capable of feeling empathy.  That empathy can extend to other species.

[chum1]

It's wrong to torture cats, you preservation of species idiots.

We are capable of feeling empathy.  That empathy can extend to other species.

Maybe.  But it's still wrong.

[Stevesie60]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

[steve dave]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

really cute and beautiful things don't usually kill you. scary gross stuff does.

[Stevesie60]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

really cute and beautiful things don't usually kill you. scary gross stuff does.

Bears are pretty cute, steve dave.

[steve dave]

little baby sheep: adorable and also delicious

enormous poisonous disgusting cobra: dead

beautiful forest: safe and good for foraging

scary as crap volcano caldera: dead

[steve dave]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

really cute and beautiful things don't usually kill you. scary gross stuff does.

Bears are pretty cute, steve dave.

just little baby ones. huge scary killer bears aren't cute at all

[puniraptor]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

Like the grand canyon?

[Stevesie60]

I would say beautiful forests are pretty dangerous. Have you read the accounts of the explorers when they got to the Amazon? Pretty scary stuff. Basically a historical account of the movie Anaconda. And volcanoes are very beautiful.

[Stevesie60]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

Like the grand canyon?

I said I was glad I went! 

[420seriouscat69]

I believe for selfish reasons. Thinking that I'm done when I die is kinda depressing. Atleast make me a ghost or something, so I can troll fescoe.

[Panjandrum]

Panj, or anyone really, do you have an explanation for aesthetics? It doesn't get talked about too much, but I think it's a legitimate question. I can't think of a reason in evolution in which people would develop a reason to appreciate beauty (except for in other humans).

When you hear music, neural patterns in your brain change.  When you see pleasant images, neural patterns in your brain change.  There is something physical that changes when you see or hear something that is aesthetically pleasing.

The fact that we can express that is more of a by product of our ability to communicate and reason.

[puniraptor]

Brainstorming a possible evolutionary cause of this beauty/wonder/awe feeling:

This feeling drives people to explore new places to see things they haven't seen before. This could help spread out the gene pool and encourage genetic diversity as well as gaining new habitats and resources.