Author Topic: Let's talk about the Big 12  (Read 17130 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #125 on: April 10, 2013, 01:40:56 AM »
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9147684/very-early-top-25-2013-14-season-ncaa-men-college-basketball

Looks like Jason King thinks we'll be at least top 4 in Big 12 next year...With the league being even weaker next season, i like our chances to compete  to repeat.  :emawkid:

Putting Baylor in the top 25 is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. This reminds me that I was going to research the last NIT champion to lose their leading scorer and then finish the next season in the top 25.

I stopped looking at the 2000 season because its way too time consuming for me to do this, when ESPN has paid researchers for such things. There were only 3 NIT Champions since 2000 that finished the next season ranked; 2011 Wichita State, 2002 Memphis, and 2000 Wake Forest. Of those 3 only 2011 Wichita State lost their leading scorer and that was JT Durley who averaged a whopping 11 PPG. Given history, it's a long shot for Baylor or any other NIT Champion to finish in the top 25 the next season, seems nearly impossible when losing a player who led not just the team, but the conference in the following
Points
Assists
Free Throw Attempts
Free Throw Makes
Three Point Attempts
Three Point Makes
Field Goal Attempts
Field Goal Makes
Minutes

We haven't even talked about the possibility of losing Austin and or Jefferson to the NBA.

Looking at only NIT champions is a pretty small sample size. NIT champs is also pretty meaningless, nobody cares about those games, so I'm positive there have been some pretty shitty teams win the whole damn thing. I'm sure there have been plenty of NIT participants who have ended the next year in the rankings. Too lazy to look it up.

You think a larger percentage of shitty NIT teams finished in the top 25 the next year than the best one?

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #126 on: April 10, 2013, 03:30:50 AM »

Looking at only NIT champions is a pretty small sample size. NIT champs is also pretty meaningless, nobody cares about those games, so I'm positive there have been some pretty shitty teams win the whole damn thing. I'm sure there have been plenty of NIT participants who have ended the next year in the rankings. Too lazy to look it up.

A couple of things, you forgot a very important qualifier that I placed on my first post which was being NIT Champs and losing your leading scorer. It's pretty ridiculous to think that you made the NIT and then will finish the top 25 in the next season while going into a rebuild. In Baylor's case they are losing the player who had the greatest statistical season in the history of their school. Also you overstate just how difficult it is to finish in the final top 25 poll. We didn't finish in the top 25 in 2007-08. Oh BTW the teams absolutely care, don't be absurd.

Anyway I did the research for you because I made a point and I needed to know I was right and I was.

I extended the search for NIT teams to the NIT final four, a bigger sample size and frankly it would be fruitless to go any further because lets face it outside of an extenuating circumstance which in this case is either getting a really good player or returning a really good player from injury which won't apply to Baylor next season. Another note before I give the list; 2008-09 K-State made the NIT but didn't reach the NIT Semifinals. Of course K-State made the NCAA Elite Eight the next season but we returned all but one starter, Darren Kent, and replaced Kent, Buchi Awaji, and Fred Brown with JO, Rodney, and Tay.

Anyway the only team I found since 2000 that fit the criteria of making the NIT one year, rebuilding and then finishing the next season in the top 25 is the 2010 UNC NIT team. That 2010 team was essentially the leftovers from their dominant 2009 National Championship team. They lost Ty Lawson, Psycho T, Wayne Ellington, and Danny Green. They were left with nothing. The 2011 team featured the #4 signing class in the country including two lottery picks in Harrison Barnes and Kendall Marshall.

The other teams who finished in the top 25 after making it to Madison Square Garden are

2010 Baylor- They returned leading scorers Lace Dunn and Tweety Carter from the 2009 NIT team and added Epke Udoh as a transfer
2008 Clemson-Returned 4 starters including the leading scorer and 4 out of the top 5 scorers from the 2007 NIT squad
2007 Louisville-Brought back 3 leading scorers and 4 starters from the 2006 NIT Semifinalists
2006 Memphis- Returned the 2 leading scorers and added the #7 recruiting class including Chris Douglas-Roberts from the 2005 NIT team
Love these last 3
2003 Syracuse-Returned 3 starters and leading scorers and added Carmelo Anthony and Gerry MacNemera from the 2002 NIT team
2002 Alabama- Returned their entire starting 5 from the 2001 NIT team, also worth noting that NIT team had Gerald Wallace on it and he didn't start and only averaged 9 PPG.
2001 Notre Dame- They returned the first 9 players in scoring and minutes from the 2000 NIT team

So in summary 1 NIT team has lost their leading scorer from the previous season and finished the next season in the top 25 and they had to sign two lottery picks to do that.

3 out of 13 winners made the top 25 regardless of who they returned and 8 out of 39 of the remainder of the semi-finalists did the same for a total of 11 of 52 NIT semi-finalists since 2000 have made the top 25 the next season. Knowing this, it seems Iowa is best suited to finish in the top 25 next year of all of the four semi-finalists. Obviously we know Kentucky is highly likely to finish in the top 25 next year because of their signing class. It is worth noting though that they are likely to return their 2 leading scorers from this season.

Oh one last note, as I suspected broadening the sample size had an adverse effect on the percentage of teams that made the top 25; 23.0% of NIT champs made the top 25 next season while 20.5% of semi-finalists did the same. Common sense will tell you that the more garbage teams I pull into the sample size the less they are likely to be considered amongst the elite the next season.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #127 on: April 10, 2013, 03:31:34 AM »
That felt great, I love college basketball

Offline ben ji

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #128 on: April 10, 2013, 08:32:01 AM »
Did you really stay up until 3:30am researching that?  :sdeek:


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #129 on: April 10, 2013, 10:03:23 AM »
Sure did :emawkid: not only that but after I finished I was so pleased with myself that I stayed up another two hours, got 3 hours of sleep and was awake on time for work today, my tennis session at 11:30 this morning is going to be awesome

Offline sys

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #130 on: April 10, 2013, 10:40:47 AM »
thanks for working overtime to provide interesting content to the board, mir.  the effort is commendable.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #131 on: April 10, 2013, 11:24:56 AM »

Looking at only NIT champions is a pretty small sample size. NIT champs is also pretty meaningless, nobody cares about those games, so I'm positive there have been some pretty shitty teams win the whole damn thing. I'm sure there have been plenty of NIT participants who have ended the next year in the rankings. Too lazy to look it up.

A couple of things, you forgot a very important qualifier that I placed on my first post which was being NIT Champs and losing your leading scorer. It's pretty ridiculous to think that you made the NIT and then will finish the top 25 in the next season while going into a rebuild. In Baylor's case they are losing the player who had the greatest statistical season in the history of their school. Also you overstate just how difficult it is to finish in the final top 25 poll. We didn't finish in the top 25 in 2007-08. Oh BTW the teams absolutely care, don't be absurd.

Anyway I did the research for you because I made a point and I needed to know I was right and I was.

I extended the search for NIT teams to the NIT final four, a bigger sample size and frankly it would be fruitless to go any further because lets face it outside of an extenuating circumstance which in this case is either getting a really good player or returning a really good player from injury which won't apply to Baylor next season. Another note before I give the list; 2008-09 K-State made the NIT but didn't reach the NIT Semifinals. Of course K-State made the NCAA Elite Eight the next season but we returned all but one starter, Darren Kent, and replaced Kent, Buchi Awaji, and Fred Brown with JO, Rodney, and Tay.

Anyway the only team I found since 2000 that fit the criteria of making the NIT one year, rebuilding and then finishing the next season in the top 25 is the 2010 UNC NIT team. That 2010 team was essentially the leftovers from their dominant 2009 National Championship team. They lost Ty Lawson, Psycho T, Wayne Ellington, and Danny Green. They were left with nothing. The 2011 team featured the #4 signing class in the country including two lottery picks in Harrison Barnes and Kendall Marshall.

The other teams who finished in the top 25 after making it to Madison Square Garden are

2010 Baylor- They returned leading scorers Lace Dunn and Tweety Carter from the 2009 NIT team and added Epke Udoh as a transfer
2008 Clemson-Returned 4 starters including the leading scorer and 4 out of the top 5 scorers from the 2007 NIT squad
2007 Louisville-Brought back 3 leading scorers and 4 starters from the 2006 NIT Semifinalists
2006 Memphis- Returned the 2 leading scorers and added the #7 recruiting class including Chris Douglas-Roberts from the 2005 NIT team
Love these last 3
2003 Syracuse-Returned 3 starters and leading scorers and added Carmelo Anthony and Gerry MacNemera from the 2002 NIT team
2002 Alabama- Returned their entire starting 5 from the 2001 NIT team, also worth noting that NIT team had Gerald Wallace on it and he didn't start and only averaged 9 PPG.
2001 Notre Dame- They returned the first 9 players in scoring and minutes from the 2000 NIT team

So in summary 1 NIT team has lost their leading scorer from the previous season and finished the next season in the top 25 and they had to sign two lottery picks to do that.

3 out of 13 winners made the top 25 regardless of who they returned and 8 out of 39 of the remainder of the semi-finalists did the same for a total of 11 of 52 NIT semi-finalists since 2000 have made the top 25 the next season. Knowing this, it seems Iowa is best suited to finish in the top 25 next year of all of the four semi-finalists. Obviously we know Kentucky is highly likely to finish in the top 25 next year because of their signing class. It is worth noting though that they are likely to return their 2 leading scorers from this season.

Oh one last note, as I suspected broadening the sample size had an adverse effect on the percentage of teams that made the top 25; 23.0% of NIT champs made the top 25 next season while 20.5% of semi-finalists did the same. Common sense will tell you that the more garbage teams I pull into the sample size the less they are likely to be considered amongst the elite the next season.

I was pretty drunk last night, and thought it would be fun to poke the bear with a stick ya' know? And then boom! Elite stats. Thanks MiR.
This is who I am...I have no problem crying. - Jerome Tang

Offline MadCat

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #132 on: April 10, 2013, 11:28:06 AM »
I was pretty drunk last night, and thought it would be fun to poke the bear with a stick ya' know? And then boom! Elite stats. Thanks MiR.
High risk, high reward.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #133 on: April 10, 2013, 11:28:19 AM »
The NBA is doing a pretty good job overseas, and it would be interesting if ncaa basketball could somehow sell itself overseas as the "future stars" of the Asian and European leagues. I'm sure they've tried, but still.

people in other countries have little to no idea that ncaa bball exists.  universities don't play sports, at least not high-level sports, in most other countries so the idea isn't intuitive.  i've tried to explain my interest in american collegiate athletics to foreigners and they look at me like i'm a respect.

I took a half dozen Danes to the KU football game in Lawrence (the 59-7 one).  They had fun but said the outcome was pretty boring.  Not impressed.

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #134 on: April 10, 2013, 12:13:27 PM »
I was pretty drunk last night, and thought it would be fun to poke the bear with a stick ya' know? And then boom! Elite stats. Thanks MiR.
High risk, high reward.

I wish we had some kind of gambling emoticon, I would use it right now.
This is who I am...I have no problem crying. - Jerome Tang

Offline OregonSmock

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #135 on: April 11, 2013, 01:03:41 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.

Offline kslim

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #136 on: April 11, 2013, 01:12:54 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.

needs to be more specific, he is probably talking about


Offline deputy dawg

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #137 on: April 11, 2013, 03:03:13 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.


 :bait:
That would be my dream if I was the fan of a football program that has a win-loss record even worse than the depths of the Toilet Bowl era.  Can't help but notice that this post comes on the heels of the highest point of basketball season.  I would direct your attention to NFL / Collegiate football viewership stats vs. NBA / Collegiate basketball stats.  As I recall, these are all on the rise, not decline. 

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #138 on: April 11, 2013, 04:01:46 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.

I'd love to hang yet another Big 12 title banner in the BSFD

Offline Demo158

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #139 on: April 11, 2013, 09:27:02 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.
:facepalm: Poor pathetic squawks....

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #140 on: April 11, 2013, 09:59:24 PM »
It's good that football equipment sales are down, because that's probably just the stuff that would have gone on to the guys who didn't really want to be out there in the first place.   Thus the real studs aren't having any reps taken away.




Offline orangerocket

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #141 on: April 11, 2013, 10:58:02 PM »
It should be no tall task for KSU to finish in the top 4 of this shitty conference every year.  I mean...ffs Bo Ryan finishes top 4 every year in conference merely recruiting to a system.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #142 on: April 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM »
It should be no tall task for KSU to finish in the top 4 of this shitty conference every year.  I mean...ffs Bo Ryan finishes top 4 every year in conference merely recruiting to a system.

the big 12 has been way better than the big 10.  like, way way better.

Offline Super PurpleCat

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #143 on: April 12, 2013, 08:07:36 AM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.

We're an ag school, we use the barter system with Nike.  One pair of cleats = one sack of potatoes.

Offline Domino

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #144 on: April 12, 2013, 12:01:01 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.

We're an ag school, we use the barter system with Nike.  One pair of cleats = one sack of potatoes.

What does a bushel of corn get?

Offline Super PurpleCat

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #145 on: April 12, 2013, 12:53:22 PM »
Heard on Petro today that football equipment sales are down 10-15%.  They should go ahead and put a retractable roof over BSFS now and get it ready for hoops season.  Football as we know it will be dead within 20 years.

We're an ag school, we use the barter system with Nike.  One pair of cleats = one sack of potatoes.

What does a bushel of corn get?

A touchdown.   :billdance:

Offline jtksu

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #146 on: April 12, 2013, 01:15:08 PM »
The price of meat goats is through the roof. Probably could outfit the entire team with a single herd.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Let's talk about the Big 12
« Reply #147 on: April 13, 2013, 07:19:28 PM »
What is the current BTC to Meatgoat exchange rate?