Hoiberg

[Powercat Posse]

Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away 

would you think more of him as a coach if he was down 10 at the 2:00 mark and lost by 10? probably, because you're letting your emotions get the best of you.

I'd say the team sucks then. When they're leading by 2+ possessions at the 2 minute mark and they lose all 4 games you deserve to be called a shitty coach. Some of it can be players/refs but it is a sign of poor coaching

Totally agree.  Its not all Hoiberg's fault but I dont care if my coach was Frank oscar or Bill Self...... If my team had a 2 possession lead with 2:00 to go and i found a way to lose them all.... i would be pissed off at my team and especially at my coach.

Sure there is some emotion in my reaction as a KU loss would have been big for us.... but i have been telling my friends how poor Isu and Hoiberg have been late in games for several weeks.      I just rolled my eyes every time.  This time i am rolling my eyes and saying a few swear words with it.

[michigancat]

Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away 

would you think more of him as a coach if he was down 10 at the 2:00 mark and lost by 10? probably, because you're letting your emotions get the best of you.

I'd say the team sucks then. When they're leading by 2+ possessions at the 2 minute mark and they lose all 4 games you deserve to be called a shitty coach. Some of it can be players/refs but it is a sign of poor coaching

Totally agree.  Its not all Hoiberg's fault but I dont care if my coach was Frank oscar or Bill Self...... If my team had a 2 possession lead with 2:00 to go and i found a way to lose them all....

A big problem problem with your premise is he hasn't found a way to lose them all.

[Powercat Posse]

I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.

My issue is not just with losing close games, but how they are losing them.   They had a 4 or 5 point lead when the clock said 2:00 in the 2nd half (and i think twice they had the ball) and lost all  4 of those games

They beat WV by 2 pts and Baylor by 5 pts this year.
They were up 6 pts with the ball vs WV at 2:00 and almost choked that game.  WV tied it before Isu won it with basket with 3 seconds left
In baylor game they were up 7 with 2:00 left


We had some close losses last year.  In Big 12, Kstate was 2-4 in games decided by 4 pts or less.
Lost by 2,2,3,4 pts..... and only one of them were we ahead at 2:00 (and ahead by 3 pts, so 1 possession not 2)
Won by 1 and 4 pts.....  We were behind at Baylor by 1 point with 2:00 and won by 1.   Up 4 with 2:00 vs Texas and won by 4

And I'm saying this isn't some systematic problem for Hoiberg, it's just a string of bad luck this year. Here are some examples from last year:


Down 3 at the 2:00, won by 2:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/31/kansas-state-70-iowa-state-72-2012/play_by_play

Tied at 1:45, won by 4:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/25/iowa-state-65-kansas-state-61/play_by_play

Up 3 at 2:00, won by 8:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/28/kansas-64-iowa-state-72/play_by_play

Down 3 at 2:00, won by 3:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/18/oklahoma-state-68-iowa-state-71/play_by_play

Good find.   So 3 times last year they were tied or behind by 1 possession late and won the game.    Although I would not refer to that as having good luck just like i would not say that this year is having bad luck

Its just my opinion (and you obviously have yours) but Hoiberg has done a piss poor job of gameplanning on defense this year when his team has a 2 possession lead late.  35 points in 19 possessions late in those 4 games proved costly.

   His fault or not, his team failed to foul in certain situations and 3 pointers cost him.    Last night his team was totally lost on defense on the 3 pointer that Johnson hit to cut the lead from 5 to 2 pts with 30 seconds left.   

[Rage Against the McKee]

I don't understand how anybody can say that Hoiberg was not a victim of bad luck last night. His offense created 3 open looks, and his defense set up perfectly to force a turnover on KU's last possession in regulation up by 2 points.

[michigancat]

I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.

My issue is not just with losing close games, but how they are losing them.   They had a 4 or 5 point lead when the clock said 2:00 in the 2nd half (and i think twice they had the ball) and lost all  4 of those games

They beat WV by 2 pts and Baylor by 5 pts this year.
They were up 6 pts with the ball vs WV at 2:00 and almost choked that game.  WV tied it before Isu won it with basket with 3 seconds left
In baylor game they were up 7 with 2:00 left


We had some close losses last year.  In Big 12, Kstate was 2-4 in games decided by 4 pts or less.
Lost by 2,2,3,4 pts..... and only one of them were we ahead at 2:00 (and ahead by 3 pts, so 1 possession not 2)
Won by 1 and 4 pts.....  We were behind at Baylor by 1 point with 2:00 and won by 1.   Up 4 with 2:00 vs Texas and won by 4

And I'm saying this isn't some systematic problem for Hoiberg, it's just a string of bad luck this year. Here are some examples from last year:


Down 3 at the 2:00, won by 2:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/31/kansas-state-70-iowa-state-72-2012/play_by_play

Tied at 1:45, won by 4:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/25/iowa-state-65-kansas-state-61/play_by_play

Up 3 at 2:00, won by 8:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/28/kansas-64-iowa-state-72/play_by_play

Down 3 at 2:00, won by 3:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/18/oklahoma-state-68-iowa-state-71/play_by_play

Good find.   So 3 times last year they were tied or behind by 1 possession late and won the game.    Although I would not refer to that as having good luck just like i would not say that this year is having bad luck

Its just my opinion (and you obviously have yours) but Hoiberg has done a piss poor job of gameplanning on defense this year when his team has a 2 possession lead late.  35 points in 19 possessions late in those 4 games proved costly.

   His fault or not, his team failed to foul in certain situations and 3 pointers cost him.    Last night his team was totally lost on defense on the 3 pointer that Johnson hit to cut the lead from 5 to 2 pts with 30 seconds left.   

Yes, his come-from-behind wins last year are partially due to good luck. And I didn't look very hard, there could have been more games they have come from behind in. I'm certain there's been more games with a two-possession lead or less with 2 minutes left that he won.

And yeah, I don't believe the results of 19 possessions out of 1900+ this season alone means Hoiberg has a "pussy-coached team" or is "clueless". He may have some room to improve, but his overall results show that he is a fine coach.

[sys]

Is Fred the Big 12's new Doc Sadler?

Trent Johnson is the closest thing.

oscar weber is the closest thing, actually.

[kitten_mittons]

I'd say that one KU assistant is the closest right now.

[GCJayhawker]

You all are wasting time who is the next Doc.  No one can ever match the greatness that is Doc. He and his teams were so adorable, can't get enough of that guy.

[Rage Against the McKee]

You all are wasting time who is the next Doc.  No one can ever match the greatness that is Doc. He and his teams were so adorable, can't get enough of that guy.

I wish he were our DOBO.

[GCJayhawker]

You all are wasting time who is the next Doc.  No one can ever match the greatness that is Doc. He and his teams were so adorable, can't get enough of that guy.

I wish he were our DOBO.

As you should. You would get cute things like this before games

[Rage Against the McKee]

If I were AD and Doc were my DOBO, I would have an area right behind the bench where the seat is cut out so Doc would have more room to squat. Doc prefers to squat, not sit, and I would do everything in my power to cater to the talent.

[Belvis Noland]

If I were AD and Doc were my DOBO, I would have an area right behind the bench where the seat is cut out so Doc would have more room to squat. Doc prefers to squat, not sit, and I would do everything in my power to cater to the talent.

It would probably be a good idea to supply him with some knee-savers as well.  ya know, what catchers used to wear in the mid-90s. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

If I were AD and Doc were my DOBO, I would have an area right behind the bench where the seat is cut out so Doc would have more room to squat. Doc prefers to squat, not sit, and I would do everything in my power to cater to the talent.

It would probably be a good idea to supply him with some knee-savers as well.  ya know, what catchers used to wear in the mid-90s.

I would, but Doc is way too cool to ever put those on.

[GCJayhawker]

No way Doc ever puts on the knee savers.  Doc does not have the knees of a regular man, he had his knees replaced with some futuristic tech that allows him to squat forever with no repercussions.

[Cire]

I would love to be there win doc comes in to seff's office after looking at film on his own time and he's telling seff all kinds of things that he sees etc and then seff says "thanks doc, did you schedule our meals for Baylor yet?"

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think it's pretty obvious that Withey is modeling his game off of Maric. If that's not Doc, then I don't know what is.

[KSUblumpkin]

I am pretty sure Monday night was a victory in the eyes of ISU fans.  Here's why:

A) It didn't flood (yet)

B) They lost which allows them to continue to cheer for mediocrity

C) They got a golden shower from the refs, which will actually help clean some of those hillbillies

Overall, I see a win all around for Iowa State.