Love how this new offense looks

[catzacker]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

[massofcatfan]

"FOOL'S GOLD"

[pissclams]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.  seems simple but it isn't and while other teams will try to accomplish the same thing against us, they won't have the athletes to execute the same defensive strategy.  we're not a great team offensively but we're not as terrible as some of the posters here think, either.

[catzacker]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.

i agree.  oscar was more the complicit in it.  at least Rod (and travis) got a good cardio workout.

[sonofdaxjones]

Man, there's just nothing nicer than having a team of actual basketball players who can hit open jump shots, the jump shot, literally one of the basic components of the game itself. . . how many times over the years have guys like Rodney and Sexy Shane tried "slashing" to much and ended up jacking up multiple shots that left you  . 

How many times was Frank bailed out by Pullen or Clemente just rocking and firing because his $hit offense couldn't create anything else?  To many times to count.

[pissclams]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.

i agree.  oscar was more the complicit in it.  at least Rod (and travis) got a good cardio workout.

oscar isn't the only k-state coach in recent memory to have his crap packed in by Self, do you remember huggins and martin?  i'm sure they enjoyed it too. 

[catzacker]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.

i agree.  oscar was more the complicit in it.  at least Rod (and travis) got a good cardio workout.

oscar isn't the only k-state coach in recent memory to have his crap packed in by Self, do you remember huggins and martin?  i'm sure they enjoyed it too.

Yeah, but oscar is supposed to be the x’s and o’s genius.  I mean, we had the two Neanderthals who didn’t know anything about basketball.  But now, I mean, Mr. X and O was supposed to swing the biggest whiteboard on the block. 

[sys]

sorry j, it wasn't a pretty good post, it was a great post.  fantastic timing.

[pissclams]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.

i agree.  oscar was more the complicit in it.  at least Rod (and travis) got a good cardio workout.

oscar isn't the only k-state coach in recent memory to have his crap packed in by Self, do you remember huggins and martin?  i'm sure they enjoyed it too.

Yeah, but oscar is supposed to be the x’s and o’s genius.  I mean, we had the two Neanderthals who didn’t know anything about basketball.  But now, I mean, Mr. X and O was supposed to swing the biggest whiteboard on the block. 

phhhsss  

[sonofdaxjones]

Do whiteboards make open shots?   

If you're a coach, do you abandon an offense that you know will that is actually creating open, makeable shots, I mean we're not talking about jacking up 25 footers over and over here.   In favor of a slashing offense, and grind it out offense . . . when you have guys who really aren't that good a slashers, at least against good defenders they aren't . . . and your posts players either 1-couldn't jump over a laid out copy of the Tuesday Manhattan Mercury or 2-Can't catch the ball or finish in traffic to save their lives?

I'll take my chances with the wide open jumpers.

[catzacker]

Dax, you’re right.  This loss is clearly on Frank.  It’s not on Mr. X and O sitting on the sideline just watching his team miss shot after shot after shot and not adjusting.  Who wants to adjust?  Seems exhausting.  And it would require not running motion and yelling “move”.  You’d actually have to do something different because what you’re doing isn’t working.  It’s much easier to just say “Frank’s fault”.

[WillieWatanabe]

FIRE WEBER!

[kso_FAN]

oscar did adjust FWIW, mainly to get Rod more looks by flaring after screens. For a while it worked, and then Rod starting missing shots again.

I do think the point about getting Angel more drives is valid, which we did effectively in the first half, but not so much in the 2nd. Of course, KU's defensive adjustments probably had something to do with that. His drive, spin, and kick to Shane was really nice in the first half, as well as getting into Withey's body to draw fouls.

[sonofdaxjones]

Dax, you’re right.  This loss is clearly on Frank.  It’s not on Mr. X and O sitting on the sideline just watching his team miss shot after shot after shot and not adjusting.  Who wants to adjust?  Seems exhausting.  And it would require not running motion and yelling “move”.  You’d actually have to do something different because what you’re doing isn’t working.  It’s much easier to just say “Frank’s fault”.

I didn't say it was Frank's fault, I am just talking about the usual revisionist history that always show's up in threads like this, and I am talking about an offense.

[catzacker]

oscar did adjust FWIW, mainly to get Rod more looks by flaring after screens. For a while it worked, and then Rod starting missing shots again.

I do think the point about getting Angel more drives is valid, which we did effectively in the first half, but not so much in the 2nd. Of course, KU's defensive adjustments probably had something to do with that. His drive, spin, and kick to Shane was really nice in the first half, as well as getting into Withey's body to draw fouls.

There were little adjustments that could have been made that would have gotten rod open looks – like, when we run all the way across the floor and our big sets the screen out on the wing, withey hedges that a bit or sticks his arm out as releford fights through the screen – JO needs to slip that or Rod, instead of sliding down or curling needs to go under the screen and get a backdoor oop.  Those are adjustments, to me, that helps rod get better looks.

And any time we could have set high screens with whomever young was guarding we should have. 

[kougar24]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.

i agree.  oscar was more the complicit in it.  at least Rod (and travis) got a good cardio workout.

oscar isn't the only k-state coach in recent memory to have his crap packed in by Self, do you remember huggins and martin?  i'm sure they enjoyed it too.

Yeah, but oscar is supposed to be the x’s and o’s genius.  I mean, we had the two Neanderthals who didn’t know anything about basketball.  But now, I mean, Mr. X and O was supposed to swing the biggest whiteboard on the block. 

still killing it.

[pissclams]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

No one “forces” ISU to shoot 3’s.  That’s absurd.  ISU wants to do that. 

Bill wanted us to shoot and we couldn’t.  and instead of realizing that and running some more ball screens for angel – like, let’s say run shane (at the four, who young would be guarding) on a ball screen up top for angel, JO sitting on the block w/ Withey, angel pushes it towards the lane and gets the ball to the rim (with withey coming over for the block/help) and jo for the alley or the clean up.  We had that any time we wanted with young on the court.   

this is true, that's ISU's offense. 
i'm not sure  if you're ignoring my point though, and that is what self's coaching staff did to us.  our new offense looked the way it did last night because of how KU played us.  close up the middle, limit our rebounds.

i agree.  oscar was more the complicit in it.  at least Rod (and travis) got a good cardio workout.

oscar isn't the only k-state coach in recent memory to have his crap packed in by Self, do you remember huggins and martin?  i'm sure they enjoyed it too.

Yeah, but oscar is supposed to be the x’s and o’s genius.  I mean, we had the two Neanderthals who didn’t know anything about basketball.  But now, I mean, Mr. X and O was supposed to swing the biggest whiteboard on the block. 

still killing it.

ya, he killed it. 

[EMAWmeister]

For whatever reason, I'm more confident going forward than I was after the win 2 years ago.  We almost pulled one out against the top team in the conference without a fluke 38 point performance, and on a horrific shooting night.  I'm pretty lbbiq, but I think we'll be just fine.  I thought starting gip against withey was going to be a nightmare, particularly when we're on d, but he did alright on him.  I thought we contained mclemore until he went on a little run midway through the 2nd half.

We've said all week that we needed to make releford beat us, and he did. Happens.

[pissclams]

For whatever reason, I'm more confident going forward than I was after the win 2 years ago.  We almost pulled one out against the top team in the conference without a fluke 38 point performance, and on a horrific shooting night.  I'm pretty lbbiq, but I think we'll be just fine.  I thought starting gip against withey was going to be a nightmare, particularly when we're on d, but he did alright on him.  I thought we contained mclemore until he went on a little run midway through the 2nd half.

We've said all week that we needed to make releford beat us, and he did. Happens.

you're right 'meister.  don't let the idiots get you down.

[The Whale]

HBBIQers, help me out.

Why hasn't JO taken any outside shots or even long 2s (other than that swished 3 a few games ago right after the clock expired)?  I'm not expecting him to become a primarily outside shooter, but 1 or 2 outside shots a game to make his defender stay with him when he runs up top to set picks.

Last night when JO would get the ball up top, Withey wasn't even bothering to come with, leaving the lane congested and making it even harder to get O-boards.

This isn't just a criticism of oscar - Frank ignored the skillset as well.

[kougar24]

HBBIQers, help me out.

Why hasn't JO taken any outside shots or even long 2s (other than that swished 3 a few games ago right after the clock expired)?  I'm not expecting him to become a primarily outside shooter, but 1 or 2 outside shots a game to make his defender stay with him when he runs up top to set picks.

Last night when JO would get the ball up top, Withey wasn't even bothering to come with, leaving the lane congested and making it even harder to get O-boards.

This isn't just a criticism of oscar - Frank ignored the skillset as well.

Clanking 18 footers isn't going to draw a defender out.

[kso_FAN]

One of the 2 shots JO made last night was a jump shot and he usually shoots 1-2 per game popping off screens.

[michigancat]

30% from 3 isn't that bad.

[kougar24]

30% from 3 isn't that bad.

It's not good...

[kso_FAN]

30% from 3 isn't that bad.

Yeah, 40.7% from 2 was a bigger issue last night.