Love how this new offense looks

[J]

Smooth movement, good screens, getting people open for shots, etc. I actually feel we have a chance to score out of the half-court contrary to last year. Just need to hit the open ones.

HBBIQrs, can you weigh in here? Am I making crap up? I am currently on a copious amount of PCP. tia

[kso_FAN]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

[ednksu]

I still don't understand why we can't incorporate the dribble drive more in the curls.  See Angel leading the come back in the 1st half.

[nicname]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

Is this just motion in general or oscar's motion.  Are there examples of team with similar styles that create FT opportunities well?  I feel like there should be chances for drive-and-dishes to bigs for easy dunks/ FT chances.  Maybe our bigs just aren't there yet?   

[sys]

Smooth movement, good screens, getting people open for shots, etc. I actually feel we have a chance to score out of the half-court contrary to last year. Just need to hit the open ones.

HBBIQrs, can you weigh in here? Am I making crap up? I am currently on a copious amount of PCP. tia

pretty good post.

[kougar24]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

Sounds like a solid approach for a team whose worst collective attribute is jumpshooting, wouldn't you say?

[kso_FAN]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

Is this just motion in general or oscar's motion.  Are there examples of team with similar styles that create FT opportunities well?  I feel like there should be chances for drive-and-dishes to bigs for easy dunks/ FT chances.  Maybe our bigs just aren't there yet?   

Yet may even be a stretch.

We've got to be able to get chances for Gip to turn on his right shoulder more often to get 3-4 shots per game with his little jump hook. As for JO, those open 12-15 foot jumpers are probably about as good as its going to get.

[kso_FAN]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

Sounds like a solid approach for a team whose worst collective attribute is jumpshooting, wouldn't you say?

We're better at that than anything else with Rod, Shane, and Angel. I mean, the only player we have that can create or get his own shot really is Angel. That doesn't leave a lot of options offensively. I thought we generated mostly good shots tonight.

[SuperG]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

Recipe for losing for 20 more years to KU because we never hit open shots vs KU. Really exiting stuff.

[8manpick]

I still don't understand why we can't incorporate the dribble drive more in the curls.  See Angel leading the come back in the 1st half.

It was clear that KU was defending us to take away the curls at the expense of giving us open threes. We had very few opportunities for open curls. Self defended this oscar offense far differently than he did the Frank offenses in the past when they aggressively pressured or perimeter players. They gave us open outside shots and we missed them.

[kso_FAN]

I still don't understand why we can't incorporate the dribble drive more in the curls.  See Angel leading the come back in the 1st half.

It was clear that KU was defending us to take away the curls at the expense of giving us open threes. We had very few opportunities for open curls. Self defended this oscar offense far differently than he did the Frank offenses in the past when they aggressively pressured or perimeter players. They gave us open outside shots and we missed them.

Yeah, KU's defense is really good and they made it really tough to score, but I'll take open 3PT shots and we got plenty of those. And we kept TOs down.

[ednksu]

I still don't understand why we can't incorporate the dribble drive more in the curls.  See Angel leading the come back in the 1st half.

It was clear that KU was defending us to take away the curls at the expense of giving us open threes. We had very few opportunities for open curls. Self defended this oscar offense far differently than he did the Frank offenses in the past when they aggressively pressured or perimeter players. They gave us open outside shots and we missed them.

agreed for the most part.  Seemed like the comeback in the 2nd half was predicated on Angel coming off screens around the FT line.  I'll have to wait for the replay to decide on this more.

[kougar24]

It generates open shots, but as bruceketball does, it limits shots in the paint and drawing fouls. So if you don't hit jumpers you are in trouble; see tonight's game.

Sounds like a solid approach for a team whose worst collective attribute is jumpshooting, wouldn't you say?

We're better at that than anything else with Rod, Shane, and Angel. I mean, the only player we have that can create or get his own shot really is Angel. That doesn't leave a lot of options offensively. I thought we generated mostly good shots tonight.

Seriously? I would say Rod, Shane, and Angel are all more consistent at slashing than jumpshots. And I don't think it's really close.

Shane and Rodney have been hot from deep here of late, but it won't last. You know it won't.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I still don't understand why we can't incorporate the dribble drive more in the curls.  See Angel leading the come back in the 1st half.

It was clear that KU was defending us to take away the curls at the expense of giving us open threes. We had very few opportunities for open curls. Self defended this oscar offense far differently than he did the Frank offenses in the past when they aggressively pressured or perimeter players. They gave us open outside shots and we missed them.

Yeah, KU's defense is really good and they made it really tough to score, but I'll take open 3PT shots and we got plenty of those. And we kept TOs down.

Have to hit shoots in oscar's offense and force the defense to chase on screens instead of going under, so you can curl and get driving lanes.  I also don't think we set screens today as well as the last couple past games.

[kso_FAN]

Seriously? I would say Rod, Shane, and Angel are all more consistent at slashing than jumpshots. And I don't think it's really close.

Shane and Rodney have been hot from deep here of late, but it won't last. You know it won't.

I'll give you Angel, but there is no evidence that Shane and Rod are slashers. Even under Frank, neither got a high amount of shots at the rim and neither had a high FT rate.

[kougar24]

Seriously? I would say Rod, Shane, and Angel are all more consistent at slashing than jumpshots. And I don't think it's really close.

Shane and Rodney have been hot from deep here of late, but it won't last. You know it won't.

I'll give you Angel, but there is no evidence that Shane and Rod are slashers. Even under Frank, neither got a high amount of shots at the rim and neither had a high FT rate.

I would consider Rod's floater near the FT line a slash more than a jumper. Maybe that's just me.

[kso_FAN]

Seriously? I would say Rod, Shane, and Angel are all more consistent at slashing than jumpshots. And I don't think it's really close.

Shane and Rodney have been hot from deep here of late, but it won't last. You know it won't.

I'll give you Angel, but there is no evidence that Shane and Rod are slashers. Even under Frank, neither got a high amount of shots at the rim and neither had a high FT rate.

I would consider Rod's floater near the FT line a slash more than a jumper. Maybe that's just me.

I'd agree, and its a shot that often gets him going. I thought KU did a great job taking that away, which was why I thought flaring off screens was a good move to get him shots in the 2nd half.

FWIW, Rod's shot profile of layups/dunks, 2pt jumpers, and 3pt jumpers is nearly identical to what it was last year.

[kougar24]

Seriously? I would say Rod, Shane, and Angel are all more consistent at slashing than jumpshots. And I don't think it's really close.

Shane and Rodney have been hot from deep here of late, but it won't last. You know it won't.

I'll give you Angel, but there is no evidence that Shane and Rod are slashers. Even under Frank, neither got a high amount of shots at the rim and neither had a high FT rate.

I would consider Rod's floater near the FT line a slash more than a jumper. Maybe that's just me.

I'd agree, and its a shot that often gets him going. I thought KU did a great job taking that away, which was why I thought flaring off screens was a good move to get him shots in the 2nd half.

FWIW, Rod's shot profile of layups/dunks, 2pt jumpers, and 3pt jumpers is nearly identical to what it was last year.

Don't make the mistake of thinking my criticism of the motion O with this group is some kind of endorsement of Frank's O before it.

[MakeItRain]

Smooth movement, good screens, getting people open for shots, etc. I actually feel we have a chance to score out of the half-court contrary to last year. Just need to hit the open ones.

HBBIQrs, can you weigh in here? Am I making crap up? I am currently on a copious amount of PCP. tia

Yes you are romanticizing this offense as it relates to last year and inadvertently buying into my most despised talking point of the last 9 months. Our offensive efficiency and PPP are nearly identical this year as it was to last season and both numbers are down from 2010-2011 and 2009-2010.

Also because we don't do a good job of getting to the rim or the line we are more slump prone.  We rely on jump shooting when we don't have a wealth of jump shooters.  Shane giving us another shooting option has been invaluable.

personal aside, I hate any offense that relies heavily on jump shooting

[Cire]

Franks offense was generally good because we rebounded nearly half of our misses and shot about a million  bagillion fts

[kso_FAN]

Yes you are romanticizing this offense as it relates to last year and inadvertently buying into my most despised talking point of the last 9 months. Our offensive efficiency and PPP are nearly identical this year as it was to last season and both numbers are down from 2010-2011 and 2009-2010.

Also because we don't do a good job of getting to the rim or the line we are more slump prone.  We rely on jump shooting when we don't have a wealth of jump shooters.  Shane giving us another shooting option has been invaluable.

personal aside, I hate any offense that relies heavily on jump shooting

I would not make any claim that this offense is better than Frank's, its just different. I agree with your concern that relying on jump shooting can get you into trouble. To me there are similarities here to run/pass ratios in football. I thought last night we swung too far to relying on 3s and got out of balance. I anticipated that oscar's plan would be to shoot 3s often against KU's defense, but not over half our shots. The other day I mentioned that 35% is probably the minimum, and I can see going up to 40% of your shots being 3s, but you've still got to get into the lane and get some 2PT jump shots. Also, you've got to make some 2s, and we only shot 41% on 2s last night, so were actually more efficient shooting 3s, even though we were only 9-30. (eFG% on 3s of 45% compared to 41% on 2s).

[catzacker]

oscar's offense gets shots, frank's gets baskets.

oscar's offense moves the ball around the perimeter, frank's moves it towards the basket.

those are both imo's.  i agree with MIR on relying on jump shots.

[pissclams]

KU forced us into playing the same offense as they made ISU played against them.  everything we saw was from outside and they limited our offensive rebounding to one and done.   great coaching by self.

not many teams have the athletes to play the screens and force the ball the way KU does, we'll be fine.

[kougar24]

I find it humorous people think oscar's plan was jacking up a bunch of 3s.

That wasn't oscar's plan. It was Bill's, to give everyone but Rodney that shot all night long. We basically took Bill's bait, swallowed the hook, and choked on it.

[ednksu]

I find it humorous people think oscar's plan was jacking up a bunch of 3s.

That wasn't oscar's plan. It was Bill's, to give everyone but Rodney that shot all night long. We basically took Bill's bait, swallowed the hook, and choked on it.

Shane, Will, and Tay were hitting those shots. 

Yes you are romanticizing this offense as it relates to last year and inadvertently buying into my most despised talking point of the last 9 months. Our offensive efficiency and PPP are nearly identical this year as it was to last season and both numbers are down from 2010-2011 and 2009-2010.

Also because we don't do a good job of getting to the rim or the line we are more slump prone.  We rely on jump shooting when we don't have a wealth of jump shooters.  Shane giving us another shooting option has been invaluable.

personal aside, I hate any offense that relies heavily on jump shooting

I would not make any claim that this offense is better than Frank's, its just different. I agree with your concern that relying on jump shooting can get you into trouble. To me there are similarities here to run/pass ratios in football. I thought last night we swung too far to relying on 3s and got out of balance. I anticipated that oscar's plan would be to shoot 3s often against KU's defense, but not over half our shots. The other day I mentioned that 35% is probably the minimum, and I can see going up to 40% of your shots being 3s, but you've still got to get into the lane and get some 2PT jump shots. Also, you've got to make some 2s, and we only shot 41% on 2s last night, so were actually more efficient shooting 3s, even though we were only 9-30. (eFG% on 3s of 45% compared to 41% on 2s).

If we hit half of our early 3s in the first half we have a radically different game at halftime.  Those early misses were just destructive to oscar's game plan.  If Will hits any of his early shots oscar looks like a damn genius, but in hindsight it looks as Koug describes, a hook/line/sinker scenario.  I  would have loved to see Tay take more effort on finding more 3s.