2013 QB Competition: Sams vs. Waters

[Trim]

http://1350kman.com/the-game-podcast-091213/

The Manbeck one.

[steve dave]

after thinking about it for about five seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting 10 yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs five yards past the line of scrimmage.

 

[Emo EMAW]

Are pages 35 through 70 of this thread worth reading?  This thread totally blew up and I missed it. 

[Belvis Noland]

Help me out here, why is Sams not starting and/or taking majority of snaps?  The too cool for school kids say the playbook issue is respected, so maybe I've missed the obvious reason....

I remember asking the same thing in '09 when Carson got his dick punched in by Louisiana Lafayette and Gregory sat on the bench.  Yet Carson kept starting.  And then, when we were desperate and needed a win against Iowa State, Snyder yanked Coffman, Gregory threw 2 4th Quarter touchdowns and we won the game. 

So, yeah, I guess Snyds has made mistakes in evaluating talent. 

[Skipper44]

Help me out here, why is Sams not starting and/or taking majority of snaps?  The too cool for school kids say the playbook issue is respected, so maybe I've missed the obvious reason....

I remember asking the same thing in '09 when Carson got his dick punched in by Louisiana Lafayette and Gregory sat on the bench.  Yet Carson kept starting.  And then, when we were desperate and needed a win against Iowa State, Snyder yanked Coffman, Gregory threw 2 4th Quarter touchdowns and we won the game. 

So, yeah, I guess Snyds has made mistakes in evaluating talent.

IIRC, Gregory actually got a couple snaps in that game and looked pretty horrible. 

[deputy dawg]

after thinking about it for about buzz seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting buzz yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs buzz yards past the line of scrimmage.

All makes sense, maybe LHCBS will adopt a different perspective when Sams gets more snaps.  It took awhile for Ell to be consistently on the field, and I bet Jeff Schwinn looked great in practice too.    that Waters is not Dunn or Schwinn.

[MadCat]

after thinking about it for about buzz seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting buzz yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs buzz yards past the line of scrimmage.

All makes sense, maybe LHCBS will adopt a different perspective when Sams gets more snaps.  It took awhile for Ell to be consistently on the field, and I bet Jeff Schwinn looked great in practice too.    that Waters is not Dunn or Schwinn.

  Well, I did see Waters run a few option pitch plays...

[steve dave]

after thinking about it for about buzz seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting buzz yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs buzz yards past the line of scrimmage.

All makes sense, maybe LHCBS will adopt a different perspective when Sams gets more snaps.  It took awhile for Ell to be consistently on the field, and I bet Jeff Schwinn looked great in practice too.    that Waters is not Dunn or Schwinn.

  Well, I did see Waters run a few option pitch plays...

those were just backwards dinks

[kitten_mittons]

after thinking about it for about buzz seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting buzz yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs buzz yards past the line of scrimmage.

All makes sense, maybe LHCBS will adopt a different perspective when Sams gets more snaps.  It took awhile for Ell to be consistently on the field, and I bet Jeff Schwinn looked great in practice too.    that Waters is not Dunn or Schwinn.

  Well, I did see Waters run a few option pitch plays...

those were just backwards dinks

They aren't dinks if the RB gains 10 yards!

[Katpappy]

Help me out here, why is Sams not starting and/or taking majority of snaps?  The too cool for school kids say the playbook issue is respected, so maybe I've missed the obvious reason....

I remember asking the same thing in '09 when Carson got his dick punched in by Louisiana Lafayette and Gregory sat on the bench.  Yet Carson kept starting.  And then, when we were desperate and needed a win against Iowa State, Snyder yanked Coffman, Gregory threw 2 4th Quarter touchdowns and we won the game. 

So, yeah, I guess Snyds has made mistakes in evaluating talent.

IIRC, Gregory actually got a couple snaps in that game and looked pretty horrible.

Also, Gregory's shoulders were effed up.  I would have kept him out too, under those circumstances.

[Belvis Noland]

I mean, nobody seriously believes that Snyds has discounted #life's running game and/or playmaking ability because he's tagged down in practice, right? 

[steve dave]

I mean, nobody seriously believes that Snyds has discounted #life's running game and/or playmaking ability because he's tagged down in practice, right?

I will believe that before the "doesn't know the playbook" BS

['taterblast]

I mean, nobody seriously believes that Snyds has discounted #life's running game and/or playmaking ability because he's tagged down in practice, right?

he's only human, belvis noland

[Belvis Noland]

he's only human, belvis noland

Is he, though?

[Dr Rick Daris]

Help me out here, why is Sams not starting and/or taking majority of snaps?  The too cool for school kids say the playbook issue is respected, so maybe I've missed the obvious reason....

I remember asking the same thing in '09 when Carson got his dick punched in by Louisiana Lafayette and Gregory sat on the bench.  Yet Carson kept starting.  And then, when we were desperate and needed a win against Iowa State, Snyder yanked Coffman, Gregory threw 2 4th Quarter touchdowns and we won the game. 

So, yeah, I guess Snyds has made mistakes in evaluating talent.

IIRC, Gregory actually got a couple snaps in that game and looked pretty horrible.

a few things. one, gregory was crap and looked way worse in that lala game than coffman did. two, who cares about that one iowa state game where gregory replaced coffman and kstate won? that kind of stuff happens all the time. jb was once pulled in an iowa state game and replaced by adam helm who then lead an even bigger comeback and i don't think anyone is going to argue that helm was better than jb.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/092799/new_ksu.shtml

[MadCat]

he's only human, belvis noland

Is he, though?

[massofcatfan]

Bizz buzz buzz Sams fizz buzz bizz? 

Buzz Waters fizz buzz zizz-zizz-zizz-FUZZ!!!! 

[DQ12]

jb was once pulled in an iowa state game and replaced by adam helm who then lead an even bigger comeback and i don't think anyone is going to argue that helm was better than jb.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/092799/new_ksu.shtml

i quit watching that game at halftime and went bowling with my grandpa instead.  stupid me.

[GoodForAnother]

maybe bill needs to simplify the playbook for himself.

"alright, daniel, go do something fantastic."

"got it, coach."

[Katpappy]

jb was once pulled in an iowa state game and replaced by adam helm who then lead an even bigger comeback and i don't think anyone is going to argue that helm was better than jb.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/092799/new_ksu.shtml

i quit watching that game at halftime and went bowling with my grandpa instead.  stupid me.

Is that because grandpa won.  If so, I feel for you young stud.  That's probably a shame that will mark you for the rest of your life.   

[Katpappy]

maybe bill needs to simplify the playbook for himself.

"alright, daniel, go do something fantastic."

"got it, coach."

You may know that is how Mack got Vince Young to play so well.  They tried to hold him down and make him do what they thought was best; which was a total failure.  They untied him and said' "go get em young man" and a MNC winning QB was born. 

[Rams]

after thinking about it for about five seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting 10 yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs five yards past the line of scrimmage.

I'm with you, blast. but I would also add that waters scrambles pretty well. he's been pretty consistently solid at avoiding sacks and getting out when the pocket breaks down. that may be why the staff (dimel?) thinks he can run. problem is, he's absolute dogshit on designed runs (seemingly 80% of snyder's clownishly redardedly unbelievably ridiculously large playbook).

[Katpappy]

after thinking about it for about five seconds i've come up with the reasons that waters is starting/playing too much:

--sams got hurt. he missed a lot of practice during camp so the snyder/dimel/miller machine got used to seeing waters back there. they game planned thinking of waters as their qb.

--del miller. you're aware of this, but don't forget how much of a hard on del has for waters. del is also the passing game coordinator, and best buds with bill. he wants waters in there so when he calls passing plays he looks good.

--practice (running) at practice sams is at a serious disadvantage to show what makes him great. it's two hand touch on the quarterbacks every single practice as well as during scrimmages. in qb runs / options it's a lot easier for him to just get touched, and waters isn't that slow so he runs with no fear of getting hit and probably looks halfway decent at running the ball during practice.

--practice (passing) i think we all know waters has the edge in the passing game. but what about a passing play where sams ends up scrambling? well the play is immediately called dead and the coaches might even be a little upset with him because he didn't go through his progressions correctly or something. in the game that's an exciting 10 yard gain, in practice the play is dead as he jogs five yards past the line of scrimmage.

I'm with you, blast. but I would also add that waters scrambles pretty well. he's been pretty consistently solid at avoiding sacks and getting out when the pocket breaks down. that may be why the staff (dimel?) thinks he can run. problem is, he's absolute dogshit on designed runs (seemingly 80% of snyder's clownishly redardedly unbelievably ridiculously large playbook).

Do you really believe that?  This rumor was started by tucks over the years.  Most of us who watched our beloved cats for the past two decades now, know that is complete bullshit.

[kim carnes]

It is staggering how many stupid posters there are on this blog.

[Rams]

It is staggering how many stupid posters there are on this blog.

apparently the powers that be have decided that some idiots are even beyond pi'ing so they started encouraging them. GREAT IDEA!