oscar's starting lineups and rotations (long)

[CNS]

Again, I haven't seen that one or the other isn't allowed to use their skill set well in oscar's motion.

Also, the numbers show their games are much more similar than different.

Gip gets 36% of his shots at the rim and 64% of his shots on 2PT jumpers. JO gets 40% of his shots at the rim and 60% of his shots on 2PT jumpers. I'm kind of surprised by that actually, I'm not sure how that is tabulated, but it would indicate that Gip plays face up more than JO. FWIW, their numbers last year were 49% at rim/51% 2PT jump shots for Gip and 58% at rim/42% 2PT jump shots for JO.

Which stat does Gip's hook fall into?

[kso_FAN]

Again, I haven't seen that one or the other isn't allowed to use their skill set well in oscar's motion.

Also, the numbers show their games are much more similar than different.

Gip gets 36% of his shots at the rim and 64% of his shots on 2PT jumpers. JO gets 40% of his shots at the rim and 60% of his shots on 2PT jumpers. I'm kind of surprised by that actually, I'm not sure how that is tabulated, but it would indicate that Gip plays face up more than JO. FWIW, their numbers last year were 49% at rim/51% 2PT jump shots for Gip and 58% at rim/42% 2PT jump shots for JO.

Which stat does Gip's hook fall into?

Good question. I'm guessing that may be a 2PT jumper in this system based on the following explanation.

The website is http://www.hoop-math.com/KANSAS%20STATE2013.html BTW,

%Shots at Rim described the percentage of a player's field goal attempts that are either classified as layups, dunks, or tip-ins in the play-by-play data.

[CNS]

Given that, a good back-to-the-basket guy's stats could make him look more like a face up guy if he has a really good hook he uses a lot.

[kso_FAN]

BTW, the guy that does the hoop-math website is Jeff Haley and he has some really good stuff out there regarding stats for those of you that are ridiculous stat guys like me. 

Here are a few from last year.

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/ncaa-basketball/coaches-love-assists-and-turnovers-stat-geek-idol

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/ncaa-basketball/coaches-love-blocks-how-statistics-determine-player-minutes-stat-geek-idol

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/ncaa-basketball/hurry-up-offense-how-pushing-the-pace-affects-shooting-and-rebounding-rates-stat-geek-idol

[The Whale]

LBBIQ, but is the difference in JO's defensive effectiveness due to the different defensive system?

It seemed like last year with the defenders fighting through screens, the defense was designed to funnel guards down towards JO who was always near the lane to clean up. 

This year is seems like JO is usually farther out of the lane, so when Will gets beat, it's too late for JO to react effectively.  He doesn't have time to get into a good position to block so he winds up slapping or coming across the offensive player and winds up commiting the foul.  Or is it that he's lazy about help defense, and not reacting in time?

[michigancat]

when are we going to see some JO pick-n-pop 3 bombs? hopefully sooner rather than later. He has a skill both of his coaches completely ignore for some stupid reason.

[Belvis Noland]

LBBIQ, but is the difference in JO's defensive effectiveness due to the different defensive system?

It seemed like last year with the defenders fighting through screens, the defense was designed to funnel guards down towards JO who was always near the lane to clean up. 

This year is seems like JO is usually farther out of the lane, so when Will gets beat, it's too late for JO to react effectively.  He doesn't have time to get into a good position to block so he winds up slapping or coming across the offensive player and winds up commiting the foul.  Or is it that he's lazy about help defense, and not reacting in time?

Maybe it's the system.  who knows.  But, the defense has been pretty darn good from everybody else.  So, whether JO is slow to learn the new system or just plain slow with his footwork, my conclusion is that he needs to pick it up. 

[kso_FAN]

JO's block% is actually the highest it's been in his career, 14.5%. It's just that he's fouling more like he did as a SO than as a JR.

[MakeItRain]

Because JO needs to be aggressive and because he's a good but not great shot blocker he picks up these fouls.  He relies on height to block shots instead of timing and footwork and because of this its, as _FAN has pointed out, its much easier for people to get into his body.

Right, JO picks up fouls because of his lackluster timing and footwork.  That's my point.  I'm sure he fouls with his body as much as he does his arms, but the point remains that poor footwork and timing will get any big man in trouble. 

JO's aggression should be an attribute, ideally.  But, in reality, it appears that his aggression too often results in silly fouls.  Get to your spot, hold it, stay straight up.  JO and Withey are maybe the only 2 legitimate 7'ers in the League.  Use that height and wingspan and protect the rim.  stop reaching.  JO could be a great shot blocker in this league.  After his growth the past 2 seasons, I expected him to be great.     

I don't think it's a coincidence that SO Gip has taken SR JO's minutes, playing 20mpg and 14 mpg, respectively.  No reason a shot blocker like JO should have regressed back to the minutes he was playing as a SO.  My take?  He's playing undisciplined defense, reducing his minutes.  B/c of his reduced minutes, he tries forcing shots in the offensive.  It's a snowball effect.   

Don't put words into my mouth I didn't say anything about lackluster, I thought I made it clear that this is an issue of skill and not effort. Also the stand there with your arms up point is poor.  I'm 6'3" and I guarantee I can get my shot off on a 7 footer just standing there with his arms up.  That's something taught in middle school and low level high school.

As for his minutes I'll repeat what I said to Wabash last week or so.  Before I get into that it is factually inaccurate to say Gip is getting JOs minutes.  First of all there is one less big in the rotation so there are more minutes for everyone.  Also at this point last season Gip was then getting more minutes than JO, it was only after Gip wore down and JO played well after his suspension that he started to get big minutes.  This Gip/JO minute talking point is revisionist.

Back to the point.  Gip is the featured big because he is our best back to the basket big.  JO is not and will not be a good back to the basket player, just like Gip wasn't as effective in the pinch post because he can't face up.  Even bad defensive JO is better than good defensive Gip, because of his height and lack of vertical he is stand with arms up guy and he can't stop anyone from getting a shot.  All this is not to say that if JO can't get minutes by playing better, he needs to be better.  But to chalk up JOs and Gip's minutes to JO being lazy and dumb is well lazy and dumb.

[8manpick]

Why is Frank okay with playing Diaz and Gipson together or JO and Diaz together, but never JO and Gipson together?  There is no way that Diaz is a better 4 than JO is.  JO seems far more comfortable facing up and seems like that would be a good argument for playing him at the 4 sometimes.  I really think we could get away with a rotation of mostly JO / Gipson / Southwell at the 4/5 slots with Nino picking up a few minutes here and there.

[kso_FAN]

Why is Frank okay with playing Diaz and Gipson together or JO and Diaz together, but never JO and Gipson together?  There is no way that Diaz is a better 4 than JO is.  JO seems far more comfortable facing up and seems like that would be a good argument for playing him at the 4 sometimes.  I really think we could get away with a rotation of mostly JO / Gipson / Southwell at the 4/5 slots with Nino picking up a few minutes here and there.

Fair question on JO and Gip playing together, but it seems to me what you said there is pretty much what we do. Or am I reading that wrong?

[MakeItRain]

Why is Frank okay with playing Diaz and Gipson together or JO and Diaz together, but never JO and Gipson together?  There is no way that Diaz is a better 4 than JO is.  JO seems far more comfortable facing up and seems like that would be a good argument for playing him at the 4 sometimes.  I really think we could get away with a rotation of mostly JO / Gipson / Southwell at the 4/5 slots with Nino picking up a few minutes here and there.

well JO is the first off so he's going to sub for Gip also their replacing each other usually has to do with one or both of them in foul trouble

[8manpick]

Why is Frank okay with playing Diaz and Gipson together or JO and Diaz together, but never JO and Gipson together?  There is no way that Diaz is a better 4 than JO is.  JO seems far more comfortable facing up and seems like that would be a good argument for playing him at the 4 sometimes.  I really think we could get away with a rotation of mostly JO / Gipson / Southwell at the 4/5 slots with Nino picking up a few minutes here and there.

Fair question on JO and Gip playing together, but it seems to me what you said there is pretty much what we do. Or am I reading that wrong?

It is pretty much what we do, except that it is always Gip + Shane / JO + Shane / Gip + Nino / JO + Nino / JO + Diaz / Gip + Diaz.  It is never Gip + JO, which is maddening to me.  I guess I don't understand why oscar plays Gipson and JO exclusively at the 5, while Diaz plays the 4 most of the time since I think Diaz is our 5th best player at the 4.

I'm not sure there is a site that does splits like this, but I would expect that while JO is on the court, our defensive PPP is better than when he is off, which is my main argument in favor of JO.

well JO is the first off so he's going to sub for Gip also their replacing each other usually has to do with one or both of them in foul trouble

Yeah.  Maybe we just haven't seen it where neither of them are in foul trouble?  I dunno.

[kso_FAN]

MIR makes a good point, playing them together is nearly impossible because one or the other usually has foul trouble. Those 2 combine for an impressive 10.2 fouls drawn per 40 minutes.

[8manpick]

MIR makes a good point, playing them together is nearly impossible because one or the other usually has foul trouble. Those 2 combine for an impressive 10.2 fouls drawn per 40 minutes.

that is an impressive number.