Author Topic: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion  (Read 13136 times)

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Offline GoodForAnother

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2012, 04:02:14 PM »
out of the 25 teams that have tried to stuff the run and force us to pass the last two years, 4 have ended up winning the game
emaw

Offline eastcat

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2012, 04:03:47 PM »
out of the 25 teams that have tried to stuff the run and force us to pass the last two years, 4 have ended up winning the game

Not to mention 8 of them have had multiple attempts.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2013, 10:59:43 AM »
I'm going to forego the blog and just post stuff here.

What to expect from Oregon's offense.

If you've been paying attention by now you realize that Oregon is a running team. They will mix in the pass effectively, but they want to run the football. Most of their concepts are finesse/zone blocking schemes, but they will include some power football by pulling multiple linemen (I've seen them pull 3 a few times even) and using their tight end (#15, very good player) as an H back/lead blocker. All that said, the base run game for Oregon is zone read/option and they will read anyone and everyone in the front 7 of the defense. They run true zone read where they attack both edges, zone read with a bubble route on the edge, triple option when motioning Thomas to the backfield, using Barner as the dive back, and Thomas as the pitch man. They will attack all edges of the defense until Kelly figures out the weakness in the defense. ON zone read they run both inside zone and stretch, they really like to let Barner/Thomas run to the edge until they find a vertical crease. Mixed in with all this zone read will be some tosses, a few leads (TE leading), occasionally a counter trey type power run, and a few draws for Mariota. Based on what I've watched I'd say we'll probably see 2/3 to 3/4 of their run game be zone read/option football.

The passing game is fairly simple. Mariota spread the ball well, but the biggest threats are their big WR Huff #1, Lyerla #15 the TE, and Thomas #1 (usually a slot WR, but will be anywhere). They will run a ton of zone read play action, sending the TE down the middle seam of the field, or looking for Huff on deep vertical/posts, but they don't throw vertical a lot. I'd say that's the biggest difference from Baylor, Oregon doesn't look to attack down the field a lot with the passing game. They like to test the edges and run a ton of 2 or 3 level routes against zone coverages with a deep route, intermediate route, and short route, often a swing by the Thomas/Barner. Against man they run quite a few short crossing routes as well. Finally, Mariota is really dangerous scrambling, Oregon's biggest play against Stanford was a 70+ yard run when he broke contain.

Formation wise Oregon is fairly simple, almost exclusively a 1 back team. Occasionally Thomas will line up with Barner in a 2 back set, or Thomas will motion to the backfield. Oregon will also often motion their back to either side of Mariota to get the proper alignment for their zone read running game. They mostly run 3 WR/1 TE sets, and balanced formations (2 by 2) with a TE or with 4 WR. They also like 3 WR trips formation, and they will unbalance the defense with the TE lined up to the 3 WR side. Finally, they will run quite a bit of TE with 2 WR split to the same side for TE trips. They are varied game to game, but a big key will be figuring out their tendencies by formation. Its pretty clear Kelly comes up with a game plan going in, and they generally have a package of plays out of each formation and will stay with that package. As the game goes along they won't deviate a lot from that; they are counting on the tendencies they see in the defense and especially for defenses to get into bad alignments because of the speed that they play at.

Keys:

Simply getting lined up right (Zimm back should help tremendously) and tackling. They want to spread you out and create vertical creases in your defense and often the breakdowns occur because defenses aren't gap sound. Also, when you watch Oregon you see a lot of runs where defenses seemingly have Barner/Thomas tackled or contained, and they break one tackle and are off on a 20+ yard run. K-State has tended not to blitz a lot, and that's wise against Oregon's offense. Another way to stop fast pace offenses is to force TOs, but Oregon has gotten a lot better over the season with only 3 TOs their last 5 games. As a result they have won the turnover margin battle in 8 of their last 9. Finally, try to force some FGs. Oregon leads the country, scoring TDs 80+% of the time in the redzone. As a result they've scored at least 42 points in every game except against Stanford. I'm not expecting us to hold them to 14 like Stanford did, but hopefully we can keep them at 35 or below. If the Cats can manage that I think we have a good shot.


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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2013, 02:57:28 PM »
Thoughts on oregon's d? Can we be successful if Klein plays like he did post OkSt or will he have to go skettibrains and run like in the 2nd half of the Texas game?

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2013, 03:06:01 PM »
We are adding a lot of quality new posters.  Love it

Offline GoDucks349

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2013, 04:33:27 PM »
I think the first quarter will tell a lot about how this game ends. My impression is that K State starts slow on offense. That's not a good thing to do against the Ducks. If K State starts slow and Oregon gets rolling on offense, it's game over. It's just not wise to get behind the Ducks as it gives both the offense and defense a lot more good choices in schemes.

If K State starts slow offensively and doesn't let Oregon get started, it should be a tight game. I'm not to worried about it if Oregon gets behind early, because they can score quickly and don't panic. They could be down 21 in the fourth and still be in the game with a good chance to win.

Lets have a great game with no injuries and may the best team win.

I agree that how the teams start will make a big difference. K-State showed that they they could overcome somewhat slow starts against fast paced, explosive offenses against Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, granted neither team is as talented as Oregon and both games were in Manhattan. The Baylor game was where K-State really got off course and panicked. K-State can't let that happen again.

As far as pace goes, K-State won't be surprised by how fast Oregon plays. 5 Big 12 teams averaged over 76 plays per game and 6 ran plays every 24 seconds of total possession or less. The average number of plays on offense for the Big 12 was 73.9 per game and teams ran plays 24.3 seconds of possession on average. The Pac 12 averages were 73 plays per game and average a play ran ever 24.5 seconds of possession. Overall K-State handled that well, only Baylor and KU reached 80 offensive plays against them. The KU game was skewed because K-State averaged nearly 10 yards per snapped, so possession wasn't as high as normal.

I think too much is said about how many plays get run, time of possession, etc. I do not expect K State to be surprised at all by the pace of the Oregon offense. K State has an excellent defense and will be a great challenge. K State doesn't make mistakes and Oregon thrives on opponents mistakes, so I think this is a close game. What I am curious about is how K State handle Barner, Thomas, Mariota, and Lyerla carrying the ball. Remember Seastrunk was sitting #3 on the depth charts behind Barner and Thomas before he left.

I imagine we'll probably try and tackle them before they get too many yards

Solid gameplan  :thumbs:

GoDucks, at what point do the real Oregon fans normally show up? Are you the scout squad?

LOL I've only been a Duck fan since 1969......

Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.



GoDucks, I feel like I have to respond to your post since I used to nail an Oregon grad on a fairly regular basis.  She was a huge Duck fan and through our trysts I can confirm that Oregon will neither stuff the run or contain the passing game.  Trust me, I have "inside her" information.

Cute........ LOL 

I'm just saying Aliotti, defensive coordinator for Oregon for something like 18 years has ALWAYS tried to "Stuff the run and make teams beat Oregon in the air". I don't expect him to change for K State.  I'm not saying anything that everyone else hasn't know for a decade or two.


Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2013, 04:34:49 PM »
Is the NCAA going to shut them down before or after the game?

Offline GoDucks349

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2013, 04:46:13 PM »
Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.

I think your defense is solid... but I see nothing that says your defense will "stuff" the K-State running game.

I'm not saying they will succeed in stopping K State, I'm just saying Oregon will commit to stopping the run first, always have, always will as long as Aliotti is the defensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect 9 in the box, I'd expect 7 with blitzes coming from the other four trying to catch K State off balance and force 3rd and long as much as possible.

Offline GoDucks349

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2013, 05:18:28 PM »
I'm going to forego the blog and just post stuff here.

What to expect from Oregon's offense.

If you've been paying attention by now you realize that Oregon is a running team. They will mix in the pass effectively, but they want to run the football. Most of their concepts are finesse/zone blocking schemes, but they will include some power football by pulling multiple linemen (I've seen them pull 3 a few times even) and using their tight end (#15, very good player) as an H back/lead blocker. All that said, the base run game for Oregon is zone read/option and they will read anyone and everyone in the front 7 of the defense. They run true zone read where they attack both edges, zone read with a bubble route on the edge, triple option when motioning Thomas to the backfield, using Barner as the dive back, and Thomas as the pitch man. They will attack all edges of the defense until Kelly figures out the weakness in the defense. ON zone read they run both inside zone and stretch, they really like to let Barner/Thomas run to the edge until they find a vertical crease. Mixed in with all this zone read will be some tosses, a few leads (TE leading), occasionally a counter trey type power run, and a few draws for Mariota. Based on what I've watched I'd say we'll probably see 2/3 to 3/4 of their run game be zone read/option football.

The passing game is fairly simple. Mariota spread the ball well, but the biggest threats are their big WR Huff #1, Lyerla #15 the TE, and Thomas #1 (usually a slot WR, but will be anywhere). They will run a ton of zone read play action, sending the TE down the middle seam of the field, or looking for Huff on deep vertical/posts, but they don't throw vertical a lot. I'd say that's the biggest difference from Baylor, Oregon doesn't look to attack down the field a lot with the passing game. They like to test the edges and run a ton of 2 or 3 level routes against zone coverages with a deep route, intermediate route, and short route, often a swing by the Thomas/Barner. Against man they run quite a few short crossing routes as well. Finally, Mariota is really dangerous scrambling, Oregon's biggest play against Stanford was a 70+ yard run when he broke contain.

Formation wise Oregon is fairly simple, almost exclusively a 1 back team. Occasionally Thomas will line up with Barner in a 2 back set, or Thomas will motion to the backfield. Oregon will also often motion their back to either side of Mariota to get the proper alignment for their zone read running game. They mostly run 3 WR/1 TE sets, and balanced formations (2 by 2) with a TE or with 4 WR. They also like 3 WR trips formation, and they will unbalance the defense with the TE lined up to the 3 WR side. Finally, they will run quite a bit of TE with 2 WR split to the same side for TE trips. They are varied game to game, but a big key will be figuring out their tendencies by formation. Its pretty clear Kelly comes up with a game plan going in, and they generally have a package of plays out of each formation and will stay with that package. As the game goes along they won't deviate a lot from that; they are counting on the tendencies they see in the defense and especially for defenses to get into bad alignments because of the speed that they play at.

Keys:

Simply getting lined up right (Zimm back should help tremendously) and tackling. They want to spread you out and create vertical creases in your defense and often the breakdowns occur because defenses aren't gap sound. Also, when you watch Oregon you see a lot of runs where defenses seemingly have Barner/Thomas tackled or contained, and they break one tackle and are off on a 20+ yard run. K-State has tended not to blitz a lot, and that's wise against Oregon's offense. Another way to stop fast pace offenses is to force TOs, but Oregon has gotten a lot better over the season with only 3 TOs their last 5 games. As a result they have won the turnover margin battle in 8 of their last 9. Finally, try to force some FGs. Oregon leads the country, scoring TDs 80+% of the time in the redzone. As a result they've scored at least 42 points in every game except against Stanford. I'm not expecting us to hold them to 14 like Stanford did, but hopefully we can keep them at 35 or below. If the Cats can manage that I think we have a good shot.

Good analysis

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2013, 05:23:46 PM »
Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.

I think your defense is solid... but I see nothing that says your defense will "stuff" the K-State running game.

I'm not saying they will succeed in stopping K State, I'm just saying Oregon will commit to stopping the run first, always have, always will as long as Aliotti is the defensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect 9 in the box, I'd expect 7 with blitzes coming from the other four trying to catch K State off balance and force 3rd and long as much as possible.

Fair enough. I haven't watched as much of the Oregon defense yet, but I did notice the Ducks are very aggressive and will put a lot of guys at the line of scrimmage. It will be interesting to see what K-State does to counter that.

BTW, I've got a bunch of breakdowns of our offense from this past season on the goEMAW blog here: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?cat=4

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2013, 05:26:50 PM »
Does Oregon's defense check into/out of a blitz if the offense checks down to another play?

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2013, 05:27:30 PM »
Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.

I think your defense is solid... but I see nothing that says your defense will "stuff" the K-State running game.

I'm not saying they will succeed in stopping K State, I'm just saying Oregon will commit to stopping the run first, always have, always will as long as Aliotti is the defensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect 9 in the box, I'd expect 7 with blitzes coming from the other four trying to catch K State off balance and force 3rd and long as much as possible.

Fair enough. I haven't watched as much of the Oregon defense yet, but I did notice the Ducks are very aggressive and will put a lot of guys at the line of scrimmage. It will be interesting to see what K-State does to counter that.

BTW, I've got a bunch of breakdowns of our offense from this past season on the goEMAW blog here: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?cat=4

Don't give them our secrets!   :shakesfist:

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2013, 05:59:20 PM »
Does Oregon's defense check into/out of a blitz if the offense checks down to another play?

I'm planning to watch some more and get something on their defense up tomorrow.

Offline GoDucks349

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2013, 06:00:23 PM »
Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.

I think your defense is solid... but I see nothing that says your defense will "stuff" the K-State running game.

I'm not saying they will succeed in stopping K State, I'm just saying Oregon will commit to stopping the run first, always have, always will as long as Aliotti is the defensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect 9 in the box, I'd expect 7 with blitzes coming from the other four trying to catch K State off balance and force 3rd and long as much as possible.

Fair enough. I haven't watched as much of the Oregon defense yet, but I did notice the Ducks are very aggressive and will put a lot of guys at the line of scrimmage. It will be interesting to see what K-State does to counter that.

BTW, I've got a bunch of breakdowns of our offense from this past season on the goEMAW blog here: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?cat=4

Thanks, for the link. As far as Oregon fans go, we've become accustom to the defense giving up a lot of yards until someone gets inside the red zone. Then the Ducks tend to shut things down better. Of course part of that is that opponents fear Oregon's offense enough that they tend to go for it on fourth down rather than settle for a field goal.

Offline GoDucks349

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2013, 06:02:22 PM »
Does Oregon's defense check into/out of a blitz if the offense checks down to another play?

Of course, doesn't everyone?

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2013, 06:45:50 PM »
Does Oregon's defense check into/out of a blitz if the offense checks down to another play?

Of course, doesn't everyone?
No.
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Offline GoodForAnother

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2013, 07:32:06 PM »
Does Oregon's defense check into/out of a blitz if the offense checks down to another play?

Of course, doesn't everyone?

If so there would be no blitzes
emaw

Offline ben ji

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2013, 08:18:16 PM »
Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.

I think your defense is solid... but I see nothing that says your defense will "stuff" the K-State running game.

I'm not saying they will succeed in stopping K State, I'm just saying Oregon will commit to stopping the run first, always have, always will as long as Aliotti is the defensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect 9 in the box, I'd expect 7 with blitzes coming from the other four trying to catch K State off balance and force 3rd and long as much as possible.

Fair enough. I haven't watched as much of the Oregon defense yet, but I did notice the Ducks are very aggressive and will put a lot of guys at the line of scrimmage. It will be interesting to see what K-State does to counter that.

BTW, I've got a bunch of breakdowns of our offense from this past season on the goEMAW blog here: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?cat=4

Thanks, for the link. As far as Oregon fans go, we've become accustom to the defense giving up a lot of yards until someone gets inside the red zone. Then the Ducks tend to shut things down better. Of course part of that is that opponents fear Oregon's offense enough that they tend to go for it on fourth down rather than settle for a field goal.

ZOMG, thats totally what KSU does as well!'

Do you think that having stud wide receiver Chris Harper on our team will help when the Oregon Defense decides to "Tighten Up" down in the red zone?

I would imagine Harp would read their defense and shout over to CK7 "Hey, they are sending a blitz. Just throw it up to me and I'll grab it"

Offline GoDucks349

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2013, 08:25:19 PM »
Back to fball, I'd expect the Oregon defense to stuff the K State running game forcing K State to move the ball through the air. Question is can Oregon contain K States passing game.

I think your defense is solid... but I see nothing that says your defense will "stuff" the K-State running game.

I'm not saying they will succeed in stopping K State, I'm just saying Oregon will commit to stopping the run first, always have, always will as long as Aliotti is the defensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect 9 in the box, I'd expect 7 with blitzes coming from the other four trying to catch K State off balance and force 3rd and long as much as possible.

Fair enough. I haven't watched as much of the Oregon defense yet, but I did notice the Ducks are very aggressive and will put a lot of guys at the line of scrimmage. It will be interesting to see what K-State does to counter that.

BTW, I've got a bunch of breakdowns of our offense from this past season on the goEMAW blog here: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?cat=4

Thanks, for the link. As far as Oregon fans go, we've become accustom to the defense giving up a lot of yards until someone gets inside the red zone. Then the Ducks tend to shut things down better. Of course part of that is that opponents fear Oregon's offense enough that they tend to go for it on fourth down rather than settle for a field goal.

ZOMG, thats totally what KSU does as well!'

Do you think that having stud wide receiver Chris Harper on our team will help when the Oregon Defense decides to "Tighten Up" down in the red zone?

I would imagine Harp would read their defense and shout over to CK7 "Hey, they are sending a blitz. Just throw it up to me and I'll grab it"

Harper's a stud, wish he'd have stayed at Oregon. We'll have our hands full with him.


Offline Cire

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2013, 08:43:19 PM »
where are the rest of your message boarding fans?  hope you stick around after the bowl.

we have a michigan guy, and an illinois guy who are really good.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2013, 09:12:59 PM »
where are the rest of your message boarding fans?  hope you stick around after the bowl.

we have a michigan guy, and an illinois guy who are really good.

How would you classify Beems?

Offline Cire

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2013, 10:36:47 PM »
where are the rest of your message boarding fans?  hope you stick around after the bowl.

we have a michigan guy, and an illinois guy who are really good.

How would you classify Beems?

beems doesn't post anymore.  if he posted throughout football season he would deserve every bit of this.

Offline Bloodfart

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »
I did some math guys WE GONNA WIN!!! 

Offline kim carnes

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2013, 09:09:57 PM »
We are so mumped.

Offline Hurricane Cat

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Re: Fiesta Bowl/Oregon FB Discussion
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2013, 11:13:33 PM »
We are so mumped.

KC you are one persistent POS.    you wear me out .....  I sure am glad I don't know you, because you seem to kind of negative   :dunno: