Another school shooting

[Phil Titola]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966657362789568512

"highly trained"

i really hate having to be the devil's advocate here because as i stated, i think it's a bad idea.  but for crying out loud, at least understand what you're arguing against.

And with anything Trump says he is all over the board every time he speaks....yes this time he stated they should be highly trained but other times he doesn't mention additional training.

Highly trained is also very subjective.....especially in Trump hyperbolic speak....but if he meant teachers should become cops then my apologies to dear leader.

[Rage Against the McKee]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966657362789568512

"highly trained"

i really hate having to be the devil's advocate here because as i stated, i think it's a bad idea.  but for crying out loud, at least understand what you're arguing against.

I guess I don't see "highly trained" as likely to be anything in addition to the course and test you have to take to get a CCL license.

[LickNeckey]

part of the discussion I heard today was having teachers trained with law enforcement to a point of being deputized and essentially operating as the "Air Marshall's" of education

[DQ12]

part of the discussion I heard today was having teachers trained with law enforcement to a point of being deputized and essentially operating as the "Air Marshall's" of education

That's how i've heard it framed in all the articles i've read.

[Joker]

From the article I linked earlier regarding training...

Marshals go through a series of background checks and psychological evaluations and undergo the same active shooter training as police — an 80-hour program created by the same state agency that enforces standards for law enforcement. And they do that every two years.

[EMAWican]

Just think about how much teachers complain about pay now vs possibly being a teacher, babysitter, AND a marshal in the future.

[Rage Against the McKee]

From the article I linked earlier regarding training...

Marshals go through a series of background checks and psychological evaluations and undergo the same active shooter training as police — an 80-hour program created by the same state agency that enforces standards for law enforcement. And they do that every two years.

So they still would get a lot less training than the police or air marshals.

[Mrs. Gooch]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966657362789568512

"highly trained"

i really hate having to be the devil's advocate here because as i stated, i think it's a bad idea.  but for crying out loud, at least understand what you're arguing against.

I guess I don't see "highly trained" as likely to be anything in addition to the course and test you have to take to get a CCL license.

I don't know what Trump meant by highly trained but I'm definitely seeing people on Facebook suggest that a teacher who already has their CCL is already qualified and it won't cost anything to implement (they already have their own gun).

[Joker]

Also, it appears the staff cannot carry a firearm throughout the day.  I'm not exactly sold on the idea, but the program implemented in Texas seems to be more restricted and reasonable than many have made it out to be.  Of course, only time will tell if it proves to be an effective measure in preventing/neutralizing these events.

The marshals are technically a new class of police officer who are deputized only in an active shooting situation. They are not legally authorized to break up fights, for instance. If students are around, they have to keep their guns in a lockbox. They can only use frangible ammo, which breaks apart upon impact — theoretically stopping bullets from blasting into other classrooms.

[Mrs. Gooch]

So when an active shooter situation arises, they have to chose whether to move their class of students into a move secure location OR go get the gun out of the lock box.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If a teacher gets a stipend to conceal carry and then doesn't run toward the gunfire and kill the shooter, do they get fired from teaching or do they just stop getting their stipend?

[Phil Titola]

120 undisclosed districts.....Trump says the secret nature of these individuals will deter school shooters from coming in to schools because they don't want to take the chance of encountering a "marshal".....school shootings still happening in the state and not one example of these marshals stopping a shooting.......

Most recent Florida shooting the shooter went to school there so I'm going to go ahead and assume he knew a resource officer was there and armed....did not dissuade him from entering the school and shooting.

Seems we might have a couple good case studies here.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I for one am stunned that the libBots have paraphrased and misrepresented the policy position in a negative light, and then engaged in false debate about said false policy position. THAT NEVER HAPPENS!!! 

Lol, this thread

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966657362789568512

"highly trained"

i really hate having to be the devil's advocate here because as i stated, i think it's a bad idea.  but for crying out loud, at least understand what you're arguing against.

And with anything Trump says he is all over the board every time he speaks....yes this time he stated they should be highly trained but other times he doesn't mention additional training.

Highly trained is also very subjective.....especially in Trump hyperbolic speak....but if he meant teachers should become cops then my apologies to dear leader.

Probably a good thing that Donald Trump won't be writing the legislation. I think we can all agree that the Trumpster is not a details kind of guy. Unless you just want to be perpetually outraged or "concerned," don't get in a twist about the nuances of every thing he says or doesn't say. It'll save you some stress.

If any state allows teachers to be armed, it will be similar to the Texas model.

[Mrs. Gooch]

If a teacher gets a stipend to conceal carry and then doesn't run toward the gunfire and kill the shooter, do they get fired from teaching or do they just stop getting their stipend?

They'll have to pay back all the stipends they had gotten upto then.


Also, I think that most school shooters know there is already a high likelihood that they are going to get killed during the event.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966657362789568512

"highly trained"

i really hate having to be the devil's advocate here because as i stated, i think it's a bad idea.  but for crying out loud, at least understand what you're arguing against.

I guess I don't see "highly trained" as likely to be anything in addition to the course and test you have to take to get a CCL license.

I don't know what Trump meant by highly trained but I'm definitely seeing people on Facebook suggest that a teacher who already has their CCL is already qualified and it won't cost anything to implement (they already have their own gun).

Probably a good thing rando people on Facebook won't be writing the legislation....

[Phil Titola]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966657362789568512

"highly trained"

i really hate having to be the devil's advocate here because as i stated, i think it's a bad idea.  but for crying out loud, at least understand what you're arguing against.

And with anything Trump says he is all over the board every time he speaks....yes this time he stated they should be highly trained but other times he doesn't mention additional training.

Highly trained is also very subjective.....especially in Trump hyperbolic speak....but if he meant teachers should become cops then my apologies to dear leader.

Probably a good thing that Donald Trump won't be writing the legislation. I think we can all agree that the Trumpster is not a details kind of guy. Unless you just want to be perpetually outraged or "concerned," don't get in a twist about the nuances of every thing he says or doesn't say. It'll save you some stress.

If any state allows teachers to be armed, it will be similar to the Texas model.

I agree with you....I'm being asked to frame my discussion around his specific words in a tweet...like you said that's ridiculous.

The Texas model isn't working.

[Phil Titola]

If a teacher gets a stipend to conceal carry and then doesn't run toward the gunfire and kill the shooter, do they get fired from teaching or do they just stop getting their stipend?

They'll have to pay back all the stipends they had gotten upto then.


Also, I think that most school shooters know there is already a high likelihood that they are going to get killed during the event.

Would they be sued for wrongful death? Parents could argue they had a higher expectation of safety for their kids if the district implemented this plan.

[Joker]

If a teacher gets a stipend to conceal carry and then doesn't run toward the gunfire and kill the shooter, do they get fired from teaching or do they just stop getting their stipend?

They'll have to pay back all the stipends they had gotten upto then.


Also, I think that most school shooters know there is already a high likelihood that they are going to get killed during the event.

Would they be sued for wrongful death? Parents could argue they had a higher expectation of safety for their kids if the district implemented this plan.

As long as they're a member of the teacher's union they're golden.

[Mrs. Gooch]

If a teacher gets a stipend to conceal carry and then doesn't run toward the gunfire and kill the shooter, do they get fired from teaching or do they just stop getting their stipend?

They'll have to pay back all the stipends they had gotten upto then.


Also, I think that most school shooters know there is already a high likelihood that they are going to get killed during the event.

Would they be sued for wrongful death? Parents could argue they had a higher expectation of safety for their kids if the district implemented this plan.

Are parents going to know that there is a gun wielding teacher in their kid's school?

[DQ12]

Are parents going to know that there is a gun wielding teacher in their kid's school?

If it's like the air marshal program, then they'll know it's a possibility.

The more I think and read about it, i don't think it's a horrible idea.  Let me put it this way, if i was a high school student locked up in a classroom during an active shooter situation, I'd sure hope that some of my teachers were strapped and trained to react to that situation. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Recap of all the dumb arguments advanced against allowing teachers to be armed....
1. "Most teachers don't want to be armed." WGAF? No law would force teachers to be armed, and only a select few need to be armed to possibly be effective.
2. "What if the teacher doesn't secure the gun and a student gets it?" What if.... a lot of things. You alleviate these concerns with rules, regulations, and training on who gets to carry and how. Millie doesn't get to just keep her Glock in her purse behind her desk.
3. "What if a teacher uses her gun to break up a fight?" (Seriously, I've heard this one). See point 2 re training, and seriously: how little is your regard for teachers?
4. "What if a teacher goes crazy and actually becomes a school shooter?" A teacher could do that now. And see point 3.
5. "What if a teacher shoots at a shooter and misses and hits somebody else instead?" Seriously, I've heard this one. And seriously, are you effing kidding me?
6. "We have no idea that this will help." Correct. This is what's known as a "preventive measure." It's not an argument against trying it unless the risk outweighs the possible benefit (and it doesn't, see items 1-5).
7. "This is just a ploy by the NRA to sell more guns." I mean this sincerely, this might be the dumbest of all arguments. Your liberal hysterics about gun control in the wake of a school shooting sell far more guns than a few teachers.
8. "We need to stop talking about securing schools because it undermines my true objective of banning guns." This one I actually agree with.

I think that pretty much covers it.

[DQ12]

Also, I think that most school shooters know there is already a high likelihood that they are going to get killed during the event.

I think this is a good point.  But even if the program doesn't act like a deterrent, if you assume that a school shooter is going to shoot until he's killed, then the idea is to kill him ASAP.  If we're actually trying to limit the number of deaths here, increasing the number of people who can kill him quickly is helpful.

That's not to say that this would be the only measure we could/should make to combat this problem, but I think it would be helpful.

[Mrs. Gooch]

5. "What if a teacher shoots at a shooter and misses and hits somebody else instead?" Seriously, I've heard this one. And seriously, are you effing kidding me?

Highly trained police officers kill people who are unarmed and/or not posing an immediate threat already. Are the teachers going to be more trained than police officers?

9. What happens when the police show up and there are a bunch of people aiming their guns?

[wetwillie]

No one really thinks arming teachers would be a good idea.  I refuse to believe anyone who says they do isn’t just trolling.