What's the final score to the Washburn game?

[BWebbs0]

76-50 Cats. 

[Stevesie60]

Win by 3, and then hear about how hard their 5 hour practice right before the game was.

[puniraptor]

53-50

[Kat Kid]

64-49

Sloppy shooting, turnovers and poor rebounding.

[CNS]

64-53

Disjointed.  Spradling misses a bunch of shots then hits his last 3 or so and ends with 10 pts. 

Angel will look spectacular physically and will throw no fewer than 2 alley oops that get muffed on the receiver's end.

[SdK]

Washburn is ranked #4 

[Winters]

I don't care. 

[Mixed-Nutz]

Will win by 30 but it is going to super effing ugly for us on the offensive half court. It going to be the first time our team runs a true motion offensive and they are going to do stupid things.

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gip is going to get gassed if get out and run.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

Diaz will appear to be are best post. He's not.   

JO is going to suffer he will take the longest to adjust to Weber's system.

Angel is going to be effing awesome... getting dime left and right... he will have a lot of turnovers... so tucks are going to tuck.   

[CNS]

Rod will have 20 and 10

[8manpick]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

The easiest indicator of High BBIQ is an understanding of an offense to a level were you get your teammates the ball in areas for them to score. Gruds has never been a good passer. Gruds did show growth in his ability to find his own shot last year.

Will and Shane have all ways shown the best understanding of are offense in the last couple years. This is why Will played a lot as a freshmen and why Shane took over as stater a couple of years ago when we added  the pin wheel offense (He picked it up about as fast as Jake). Will also was a best defender when dealing with screens because of his understanding of the game. This is one of the reasons he played so many minutes last year when his offense confidence and game was completely shot.

"Limited athleticism" - this is also far from true.

[BWebbs0]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

The easiest indicator of High BBIQ is an understanding of an offense to a level were you get your teammates the ball in areas for them to score. Gruds has never been a good passer. Gruds did show growth in his ability to find his own shot last year.

Will and Shane have all ways shown the best understanding of are offense in the last couple years. This is why Will played a lot as a freshmen and why Shane took over as stater a couple of years ago when we added  the pin wheel offense (He picked it up about as fast as Jake). Will also was a best defender when dealing with screens because of his understanding of the game. This is one of the reasons he played so many minutes last year when his offense confidence and game was completely shot.

"Limited athleticism" - this is also far from true.

 

[8manpick]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

The easiest indicator of High BBIQ is an understanding of an offense to a level were you get your teammates the ball in areas for them to score. Gruds has never been a good passer. Gruds did show growth in his ability to find his own shot last year.

Will and Shane have all ways shown the best understanding of are offense in the last couple years. This is why Will played a lot as a freshmen and why Shane took over as stater a couple of years ago when we added  the pin wheel offense (He picked it up about as fast as Jake). Will also was a best defender when dealing with screens because of his understanding of the game. This is one of the reasons he played so many minutes last year when his offense confidence and game was completely shot.

"Limited athleticism" - this is also far from true.

Bolded part seems like a better indicator of being a good passer IMO.

A huge part of BBIQ is putting yourself in position to make plays. Being in the right place at the right time is not usually an accident, and McGruder is incredible at this. Will's fantastic 2.8 APG are great and all, but mostly he has shown an ability to pass the ball as soon as he gets it or dribble back out away from the basket.  Do you really think he does a really good job of getting it to people in places they can score?

!= means not equal to, fwiw.  Will and Gip are certainly limited athletically compared to typical high-major guys. For Gip, it is his height and conditioning, and for Will it is the fact that he is one of the slowest, least physical guards in the Big XII. Shane is a good athlete, and I honestly have no idea about EMAPE.

[MakeItRain]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

The easiest indicator of High BBIQ is an understanding of an offense to a level were you get your teammates the ball in areas for them to score. Gruds has never been a good passer. Gruds did show growth in his ability to find his own shot last year.

Will and Shane have all ways shown the best understanding of are offense in the last couple years. This is why Will played a lot as a freshmen and why Shane took over as stater a couple of years ago when we added  the pin wheel offense (He picked it up about as fast as Jake). Will also was a best defender when dealing with screens because of his understanding of the game. This is one of the reasons he played so many minutes last year when his offense confidence and game was completely shot.

"Limited athleticism" - this is also far from true.

Absolutely absurd, offensively so.  Will has never been anything but a guard to guard passer, he is the ultimate ball mover.  Total bullshit, no way am I going to sit by quietly and let that slide.  A ridiculous revision of history.

You are a smart poster, please do better.

As far as screens go, Will and everyone else went where they were told on picks.  Will being a guard was almost always being screened which means where he goes is largely dictated by what the defender of the screener does.  That's basic basketball.

That post was either a hell of a troll, or the biggest stretch to praise Will outside of cjh and Jay Heidrick.

[MakeItRain]

Oh, my score is 84-61

[Mixed-Nutz]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

The easiest indicator of High BBIQ is an understanding of an offense to a level were you get your teammates the ball in areas for them to score. Gruds has never been a good passer. Gruds did show growth in his ability to find his own shot last year.

Will and Shane have all ways shown the best understanding of are offense in the last couple years. This is why Will played a lot as a freshmen and why Shane took over as stater a couple of years ago when we added  the pin wheel offense (He picked it up about as fast as Jake). Will also was a best defender when dealing with screens because of his understanding of the game. This is one of the reasons he played so many minutes last year when his offense confidence and game was completely shot.

"Limited athleticism" - this is also far from true.

Absolutely absurd, offensively so.  Will has never been anything but a guard to guard passer, he is the ultimate ball mover.  Total bullshit, no way am I going to sit by quietly and let that slide.  A ridiculous revision of history.

You are a smart poster, please do better.

As far as screens go, Will and everyone else went where they were told on picks.  Will being a guard was almost always being screened which means where he goes is largely dictated by what the defender of the screener does.  That's basic basketball.

That post was either a hell of a troll, or the biggest stretch to praise Will outside of cjh and Jay Heidrick.

Baseline screens, back screens off the ball, not ball screens ..... 

[MakeItRain]

Will, Shane, O-money and Gip are going to look good because of their high BBIQs.

Gruds & Tay will look solid.

What in the world has Will shown that makes you think he has HBBIQ?  Are you implying that Gruds doesn't? Pro-tip: Gruds has just about the HestBBIQ on the team. Limited athleticism or BB skill != HBBIQ.

The easiest indicator of High BBIQ is an understanding of an offense to a level were you get your teammates the ball in areas for them to score. Gruds has never been a good passer. Gruds did show growth in his ability to find his own shot last year.

Will and Shane have all ways shown the best understanding of are offense in the last couple years. This is why Will played a lot as a freshmen and why Shane took over as stater a couple of years ago when we added  the pin wheel offense (He picked it up about as fast as Jake). Will also was a best defender when dealing with screens because of his understanding of the game. This is one of the reasons he played so many minutes last year when his offense confidence and game was completely shot.

"Limited athleticism" - this is also far from true.

Absolutely absurd, offensively so.  Will has never been anything but a guard to guard passer, he is the ultimate ball mover.  Total bullshit, no way am I going to sit by quietly and let that slide.  A ridiculous revision of history.

You are a smart poster, please do better.

As far as screens go, Will and everyone else went where they were told on picks.  Will being a guard was almost always being screened which means where he goes is largely dictated by what the defender of the screener does.  That's basic basketball.

That post was either a hell of a troll, or the biggest stretch to praise Will outside of cjh and Jay Heidrick.

Baseline screens, back screens off the ball, not ball screens ..... 

Not nearly enough of those for him to be properly evaluated unless you have a shitload of coaches tape to not only ISO Will but ISO the rest of the guards to compare.  Like I said, huge reach, getting grander.

[MakeItRain]

I'd also like to add that if you don't handle baseline and off-ball screens well that means you are likely way out of position with your weak side D.  Again I don't have access to coaches film but I'm going to guess that Frank didn't tolerate his guards sleeping on help side defense too many times.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I'd also like to add that if you don't handle baseline and off-ball screens well that means you are likely way out of position with your weak side D.  Again I don't have access to coaches film but I'm going to guess that Frank didn't tolerate his guards sleeping on help side defense too many times.

Will pick up sets and motion offensive of opposing teams rather fast, it is easier to chase a shooter around screens if you know where they are going. This is why Will guarded the opposing best shooter and why he stilled played at the end of the season last year even though his head and body were completely mumped. I am not stupid enough to think Will is as good as the tucks think or as bad as the Will haters believed, but always thought he was a solid big 12 role player.

[MakeItRain]

I'd also like to add that if you don't handle baseline and off-ball screens well that means you are likely way out of position with your weak side D.  Again I don't have access to coaches film but I'm going to guess that Frank didn't tolerate his guards sleeping on help side defense too many times.

Will pick up sets and motion offensive of opposing teams rather fast, it is easier to chase a shooter around screens if you know where they are going. This is why Will guarded the opposing best shooter and why he stilled played at the end of the season last year even though his head and body were completely mumped. I am not stupid enough to think Will is as good as the tucks think or as bad as the Will haters believed, but always thought he was a solid big 12 role player.

He's an average Big 12 role player, he's way too much of an offensive liability to be considered solid.  I'll give you that he is a slightly better than average defender, but a lot of the stuff you pointed out can be attributed to scouting and taking what he learned in film study and in practice into games.  I'm not willing to apply the heady label to that.  I'll give you coachable.

I am definitely a Will hater, but 98% of that is attributed to how he plays and not the other stuff.  IMO he plays like a coward, he takes absolutely no risks because he's afraid to fail and that also translates to his shooting.  There's nothing worse for a skilled athlete than to play scared.  He or others can blame Frank all they want to for his fragile, 8 year old like psyche but the fact remains that he's played with two standout guards that didn't play scared.  If he didn't learn from Jake you'd think he would have been motivated by a true freshman.

[0.42]

Oh, my score is 84-61

lol

[0.42]

Also just wanted to say I really enjoy this thread. And MiR's contributions to it. Love reading basketball strategy/analysis even though I'm pretty pud in my understanding of it.

[0.42]

Also, 72-61 cats

[MakeItRain]

Oh, my score is 84-61

lol

November basketball will be a very different animal, unfortunately I think I'll be saying the same thing in four months.

[StocktonCat]

Oh, my score is 84-61

lol

November basketball will be a very different animal, unfortunately I think I'll be saying the same thing in four months.

Hey MIR...enjoy your posts but on one of your previous posts you referred to other posters..

That post was either a hell of a troll, or the biggest stretch to praise Will outside of cjh and Jay Heidrick.

You might add Bob Knight to those to in your next post where you refer to these guys! Thanks for sharing all your info on the scrimmage!  Go Cats!