Author Topic: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread  (Read 33687 times)

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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2012, 08:56:25 PM »
Is Mitt going to axe the mortgage interest deduction?!

I think he is talking of limiting it to $17,000.

(I'm too stupid to find a better word than gay)

at < 4% rates, that's a pretty big loan, like nearly $400k on a 30 yr.  but I agree, don't like.

EDIT: not that I don't like gheys, i do.

Some of us live pretty large, JD.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2012, 08:58:51 PM »
Is Mitt going to axe the mortgage interest deduction?!

I think he is talking of limiting it to $17,000.

(I'm too stupid to find a better word than gay)

at < 4% rates, that's a pretty big loan, like nearly $400k on a 30 yr.  but I agree, don't like.

EDIT: not that I don't like gheys, i do.

Some of us live pretty large, JD.

That's why I don't like it. I deducted more than that last year.

Online Kat Kid

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2012, 09:01:35 PM »
Romney-
35% to 25% the deductions will be gone
$90 billion into to solar and wind
you don't just pick the winners and losers, you've been picking the losers
the idea you get a break for shipping jobs overseas, I've never heard of that
maybe I need a new accountant
state governors, get the money than we can care for our own poor than if the federal government tells us what to do
states are the laboratories of democracy

Leher-
entitlements  Do you see a major difference on Social Security

Obama-
similar
structurally sound, will need to be tweaked
values behind Social Security and Medicare because Medicare is the large driver of our deficits
the reason my grandmother could be independent was because of Social Security and Medicare
that is the point of view I bring
they are not dependent, they have worked hard
so how can we strengthen the system?
To reduce costs:  $716 billion, no longer overpaying insurance providers
lowered Rx drugs $600/person and made the system more sustainable
we need to lower health care costs

Romney-
our seniors depend on them
nothing will happen to them
neither of us would change retirees or 60 or older no changes will be
Oh nevermind, (HEADFAKE!) actually Obama is changing Medicare for retirees
$716 billion is what he's cutting
going across the board cutting the rates and now hospitals and retirement homes are saying they won't take Medicare or Medicare Advantage
I want to put the $716 billion back in instead of using it to fund Obamacare

Obama-
Medicare voucher program, he won't explain it
I don't support that
If you are 54 or 55
the idea presented by congressman Ryan is:
take your voucher and buy your own health insurance
but the voucher won't keep up with insurance inflation will cost seniors $6000/yr
but health insurance companies will try to prune out the older people in favor of younger
AARP thinks the savings from Medicare strengthen the system and if you repeal Obamacare will be $600/person for Rx, more for preventive care and the primary beneficiaries will be insurance companies

Leher-
do you support voucher system?

Romney-
I support current system for retirees, Obama doesn't, he takes $715 billion out of your current plan
there will be at least two plans
if the government can match the private market
I would just as soon rather have an insurance company not the government telling me what to do, I get to make choices, I can get competition among insurance companies
lower benefits for higher income people

Obama-
government has lower administrative costs than private companies
private companies have to make a profit
so where is the money going to come from?  If medicare has fallen apart in the meantime, then where is the choice?

Leher-
Amount of regulation in the marketplace?

Romney-
regulation is essential
you need it
free economies need it
it is excessive in some places
regulation is excessive example; Dodd-Frank
unintended consequences, too big to fail banks
biggest kiss to NY banks ever!
repeal and replace Dodd-Frank
leverage limits, transparency

Obama-
great example
big economic crisis because of reckless behavior across the board
loan officers to people who should not have got it, people asking for loans they should not get, rating agencies rubber stamping, banks making money hand over fist with complex things no one understood
we paid back every dime on the loans, with interest
he wants to repeal Dodd-Frank, roll it back
I'm glad we agree that there is some agreement about regulations
Was there too much regulation of Wall St.?  If that's true Romney is your guy?
Too big to fail, hurts small banks
qualified mortgages, won't define qualified mortgage, try and get a mortgage these days because the regulations weren't thought through

Leher-
Health care, Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, you want repeal, Why?

Romney-
I can't afford insurance for myself and my son
the number of small businesses that are dropping is numerous
the costs are prohibitive $2500 more from the CBO per person per year under ACA
it is expensive, that hurts families
it cuts $716b from medicare
unelected board that will say about care covered
companies say it has prevented them from hiring people
he fought for obamacare, not jobs!
craft a plan at the state level to fit the needs of the state and bring costs down

Obama-
had the same conversations
small businesses saw costs go higher, it is the biggest cost of our deficit, but families were scared of going broke if they got sick
pre-existing conditions, arbitrary limits, someone gets sick, they hit the limit, they go broke
if you have insurance, it is not a govt. takeover, insurance can't jerk you around, your kid can stay on until 26
you are going to get rebates if insurance spend more on admin costs and profits than care
group rates instead of individual rates

Leher-
2 minutes are up

Obama-
had 5 seconds before you interrupted me  (lol!)
great work Romney on the state system in Mass.

Romney-
I like the way we did it in Mass

Offline 8manpick

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2012, 09:01:52 PM »
Can I skip the last 10 minutes without missing much? being on dvr time sucks for following this and twitter...
:adios:

Offline kim carnes

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2012, 09:07:08 PM »
I watched roughly 1 minute of the debate while at Gomer's liquor tonight, Mitt was talking, he sounded good/great.

Online Kat Kid

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 09:13:09 PM »
Romney(cont)
you pushed Obamacare through with Pelosi/Reid
we did it bipartisan
we didn't raise taxes
we didn't cut medicare
we didn't have a board say what care people could get
we didn't ask people to lose insurance they had
The republicans did not vote a single vote for it.
Bipartisan plan from republicans was pushed aside

Obama-
This is a Republican plan
we used the same advisors as Romney's plan
it is the same plan
the unelected board, health care experts and doctors looking at reducing costs of care
2 ways of dealing with this: let people fend for themselves, and go without insurance
or we can more the cost of care, there are ways of doing it
Cleveland Clinic- great care cheaper than average:  if a patient comes in they get all doctors together and do 1 test instead of 10
lets prevent and manage diabetes, let's pay doctors on performance not by procedure
lets use the purchasing power of medicare and medicaid to take advantage of these cost-cutting measures
health care costs have gone up slower than at any time in the past 50 years
people with private are getting rebates already
Romney won't describe what he will replace it with, his solutions won't help people with pre-existing conditions
50 million will lose insurance

Leher-
what is replace

Romney
kids can stay on, preexisting conditions will be covered
lets bring the cost down, an unelected board, the government, this board is going to decide your care
the private industry will bring down costs better than govt.
your example is a private industry
I was a consultant to hospitals, I was astounded by the creativity
we don't need a board, we need to put them on performance pay
Intermountain healthcare, Mayo
the right answer is not fed. govt. takeover and mandates, telling doctors and patients about care
private works best

Obama
the board does not make decisions about doctor-patient treatments that is specifically prevented
your plan doesn't say that
your plan doesn't help people with pre-existing conditions
Romney plan in Mass was private insurance expansion, you have to take everybody, but you get more customers
but he won't give you a better answers than the answers in Mass
we don't know the details! tax cuts, dodd-frank, obamacare
is the reason he won't reveal the details is because they are too good?  because he will help people too much?
no, these are tough problems, but the choices we made help middle class

Romney-
when I lay out my specific plan I can't get cooperation
I want to lay out my framework, will work with congress
bring down deductions, Bowles-Simpson or have a deductions cap
bring down rates, broaden base, bring down deductions
my plan in Mass was a model for state by state and setting aside the 10th amendment is not the way to go

Leher-
role of govt.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 09:13:49 PM »
Can I skip the last 10 minutes without missing much? being on dvr time sucks for following this and twitter...

Should watch it all, Romney is just crushing it.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 09:23:10 PM »
Oh man Obama is mad
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2012, 09:23:40 PM »
Just turned it on, has either addressed the growing deficit and how we really can't afford crap? 
I got a guy on the other line about some white walls

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2012, 09:26:04 PM »
lol at Jim Leher spending 60 seconds repeating that we only have 3 minutes left.
I got a guy on the other line about some white walls

Offline kim carnes

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 09:27:31 PM »
whatever you say Obumma (i just came up with that  :cool:)

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 09:28:48 PM »
Can I skip the last 10 minutes without missing much? being on dvr time sucks for following this and twitter...

Should watch it all, Romney is just crushing it.

 Will go back and check the time I missed. Before I hit 'live' I felt like Mitt was crushing, then it looked like he was on the ropes when I got back*

*Fully understanding that you and I don't agree on several issues
:adios:

Offline kim carnes

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2012, 09:29:47 PM »
 :flush: <---- Obama

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2012, 09:31:56 PM »
Just turned it on, has either addressed the growing deficit and how we really can't afford crap?

Yes, that was part two, i think.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2012, 09:32:28 PM »
Mitt won pretty convincingly.  But that's maybe because we thought he'd meltdown.

Online Kat Kid

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2012, 09:32:42 PM »
Obama-
role of govt., 1st role keep Americans safe
govt. has capacity to open up opportunity with ladders and framework
freedom, free enterprise, work on an idea, make their own decisions
but Abe Lincoln said let's build a transcontinental railroad, natl. academy of sciences, land grant institutions, give all americans opportunity that expands freedom, not contract them
Race to the Top education, states reform then we give more money
we also need 100,000 math/science teachers so we have skills
states have laid off teachers at the state level
Romney says we don't need more teachers, I think we do.
It will create jobs by creating more skilled workplace

Romney-
Mass has great schools we need great teachers, more teachers
every state and school district needs to make that decision on their own
we need to protect the Declaration and the Constitution
Military second to none, will not cut it
are endowed by our creator, we need religious freedom
we care for those that have difficulties
we allow people to pursue their own dreams
trickle down government thinks it can do better than individuals 1/6 people in poverty 47 million on food stamps 50% college grads do not working, we need a change

States take the lead, fed can push state and local along
Title I, IDEA need school choice the funds follow families not school districts

Obama-
Race to the Top- major reforms

Leher- differences?

Obama-
budgets matter
cut taxes? for me and him
we need to cut fed support for ed
Congressman Ryan put forward a budget that was not very detailed, which is a trend
but it would cut education budget by up to 20%
community colleges will need to train for jobs and partner students with jobs that requires fed support
making college affordable- sending $60 billion to banks/lenders for guaranteed loans, we cut out the middle man and now millions more have loans and have lower interest rates
Romney cares about education, but when he says borrow money from your parents, but not all kids, like me and michelle have that option

Romney-
you get your own house, airplane not your own facts as president
I'm not cutting education
$90 billion in to green jobs that is 2 million teachers
these businesses are out of business, a number were contributors to your campaign
the govt. is not picking winners and losers, telling people what treatment they can get, but how can we get schools more competitive
let's grade our schools, let's not cut our commitment, but let's make it better
Mass. schools were ranked #1 in the nation

Leher-
3 min. left, your answers have been too long or I've been poor at this
3 min. total time:  fed govt. is in paralysis due to partisan gridlock what do you do?

Romney-
great experience was 87% democrat legislature in Mass
as president day 1, will sit down with democrats and republicans
talk about challenges
find common ground
people are hurting
this deficit could crush future generations
both republicans and democrats lover america, but we need to get the job done
done it before and do it agian

Obama-
busy first day repealing obamacare and sitting down with democrats who won't like that
I dont care who has the ideas
repealed DADT, 3 trade deals, end war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, brought down Osama Bin Ladin, saying specifics, you need a plan
you need to say no, have we had some fights?  yes.  leadership is saying what you are for and saying no. 
Romney has not said no to people in his own party

Obama closing statement
the question now is how do we build on the strengths?
The American People's genius and grit is channeled and they have a fair shot, a fair shake, we are all playing by the same rules
I said 4 years ago I wasn't perfect, but that I would fight for the middle class, I will continue that fight with your vote

Romney
I am concerned about America over the past 4 years
this is bigger than us, our parties, it is about the future of the countries
two different paths
look at the record
the president will squeeze the middle class, chronic unemployment, costs up, I will create 12 million new jobs
Obamacare with him, premiums up, no Obamacare with me, we will use state by state plans and bring costs down
$716b cut to medicare, hospitals will not allow medicare, I will reinstate
Obama will cut military, I will keep our military strong

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2012, 09:32:50 PM »
Just turned it on, has either addressed the growing deficit and how we really can't afford crap?

Yes, that was part two, i think.
They did a bunch of dancing anyway. Not sure they really explained crap.
:adios:

Offline kim carnes

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2012, 09:33:38 PM »
Mitt made Obama look like he had no idea what he was doing.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2012, 09:35:12 PM »
I hated mitt until tonight.  Mitt = stud

Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2012, 09:36:15 PM »
Obama's body language is pretty telling.  Dude is PISSED.

Offline Institutional Control

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2012, 09:36:41 PM »
OK, I'm ready for the debate. What time does it start?

Offline kim carnes

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2012, 09:37:31 PM »
Obama's body language is pretty telling.  Dude is PISSED.

anyone would be after taking a beating like that

Online Kat Kid

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2012, 09:39:15 PM »
Jim Leher pretty much stayed out of it and left it to the candidates, that made for a free-wheeling debate and all the talking points came out, multiple times.  He set up the talking points, didn't reign in on time or content.  It is an approach I like better than an overeager moderator, but it made for a sloppy debate.

Mitt won here, but this debate wasn't decisive.  It was really details oriented.  Mitt did a better job with repeating $716b medicare and the $90 billion on green jobs than Obama did with his $8 trillion which he switched to $7 trillion then dropped when Mitt questioned it.

Mitt really pandered his ass off with me too!'s on all of Obama's plans on tax cuts and health care.  I don't know if that will be transparent or not, but Obama dropped the ball on doing anything about that.  He did do a good job with his messaging, but it was not punchy, especially compared with Mitt's absurd energy.

Overall, I don't think this will do much to move things.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2012, 09:39:46 PM »
Most convincing reason to vote for Obama from tonight's debate: "if the president is reelected, you'll see dramatic cuts to our military." -- Mitt Romney
:adios:

Offline ednksu

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Re: 2012 Presidential Debate Master Thread
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2012, 09:40:43 PM »
I think Romeny won by not failing (ie: not getting cornered or looking like a block of wood).  Did well holding the medicare/ade message together (716 B point). 
Did not like Obama looking down that much to take notes, kinda looked like he was texting.
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