Official:Future Head Coach Watch List *Assuming Currie/AD wins internal struggle

[Dugout DickStone]

there is always the possiblity that Currie hired Bubbles because he paid his buddy $50k and that is the name that they gave him?

[steve dave]

what if the animal hired currie for those reasons?  like, the animal saw how shitty all our stuff was and decided to go out and get a guy that would make getting nice stuff his #1 priority at the cost of being good at dealing with people.  maybe the animal fires his ass once we get nice stuff? 

[Trim]

what if the animal hired currie for those reasons?  like, the animal saw how shitty all our stuff was and decided to go out and get a guy that would make getting nice stuff his #1 priority.  maybe the animal fires his ass once we get nice stuff? 

He'll give Currie a reward consisting of a cruise that circles the globe 500 times.

[steve dave]

what if the animal hired currie for those reasons?  like, the animal saw how shitty all our stuff was and decided to go out and get a guy that would make getting nice stuff his #1 priority.  maybe the animal fires his ass once we get nice stuff? 

He'll give Currie a reward consisting of a cruise that circles the globe 500 times.

lol

[Dr Rick Daris]

what if the animal hired currie for those reasons?  like, the animal saw how shitty all our stuff was and decided to go out and get a guy that would make getting nice stuff his #1 priority at the cost of being good at dealing with people.  maybe the animal fires his ass once we get nice stuff?

i don't think there should be any doubt what the animal was looking for that at the time of the hire. just read what he said...

"We are excited about the future of K-State Athletics under the leadership of John Currie," Schulz said. "Throughout his career, John has demonstrated tremendous fundraising skills and fiscal management. He is a dynamic communicator with proven experience working with all sports, and his high energy, along with his integrity and character, make him the perfect fit for Kansas State."



i also think the animal wants to pretty much stay out of it. but if bill quites because of currie and academics vs sports keep butting heads on the fund raising side of things, who knows.

[steve dave]

yeah, that quote spells it out.  but, if the animal wanted to stay out of it, he probably should have realized he needed to hire someone who could develop effective relationships with his employees. 

[Dugout DickStone]

Bill wouldn't make it public enough if he leaves because of Currie, IMO.

[Panjandrum]

I think people have identified what Currie's main talent/focus is (CFO), and he realizes that the money is in football.  Basketball, while a revenue sport, isn't going to generate the margins that he needs to get what he (and maybe the Animal) wants done.  Especially when the market (i.e. Kansas) is already saturated with people and sponsors pumping major dollars into the other school in our sparsely populated state.

If you're a money guy, and you see the difference in investment and interest between Kansas State and Kansas in football, and you know that your potential profit margin in football far exceeds what could be done in basketball, of course you're going to pump your money and time into that program.  It's not rocket science.  Especially when trying to compete with Kansas in basketball in this state is like Microsoft trying to chip away at mp3 market share with the Zune.  Sure, it may be a nice product, and a lot of people will really enjoy it, but is it going to unseat the iPod?  No.  So, why invest more than necessary?

oscar Weber is the perfect hire for an AD that wants to focus on football and facilities improvements.  Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't, and every once in a while, if the stars align, he may get to the second weekend of the tournament.  He won't get you into trouble, most of the fans will eat up his schtick after he wins with Frank's players (this year at least), and Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

I love this site, but it is definitely skewed in favoritism towards basketball.  An AD, especially one raised in the SEC, will look at basketball with an interest above most non-revenue sports, but it is not something they're going to want to spend a lot of time and resources on.  You don't go pumping a crap ton of money and time into a product that will move your share of a small market a few percentage points.  You'll pump that time and money into a venture with high margins where you can own the market.  And if we can finally capitalize on the current momentum with football and facilities improvements to further the divide between us and Kansas, you bet Currie will do that because that's where our conference is headed, that's where college athletics are headed, and it's what's going to give us the money to spend on luxuries like a high-priced basketball coach and a nice basketball program.

Football first.  Especially here.  Especially now.  Don't let basketball turn into an Asbury/Wooly dumpster fire (and it won't under Weber), and come back to it later after we've spent $150 million on the football stadium and secured our post-Snyder future.

Now, back to football coaches.  Who's next Dax?

[Panjandrum]

Bill wouldn't make it public enough if he leaves because of Currie, IMO.

Bill's not going anywhere.  He's going to try and wait out Currie so he can get Sean in there.  Watch.

I had a conversation with my pops about this last night.  Snyder thinks retirement is stupid.  He'll coach until he's 80 because he'd be bored otherwise.  My bet is that he's here for at least 5 more years.  He'll just be a figurehead like Bowden and Paterno and let everyone else run it while he paces the sidelines.

[Dr Rick Daris]

yeah, that quote spells it out.  but, if the animal wanted to stay out of it, he probably should have realized he needed to hire someone who could develop effective relationships with his employees.

i would guess that in this situation, you identify one or two important job skill sets that you want experience in and then just kind of assume that your new athletic director won't start trying to actively chase off really good coaches in your two most important sports. dunno.

maybe the animal just took one of those great lakes flights that we had at the time to denver and holed up in a hotel until a friend of his that he had the school pay 50k, told him who to hire like currie basically did.

[Trim]

Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

Agree with all the points about why football needs to be the profit-maker, but didn't Currie spend a lot of time dealing (rough ridin') with basketball by choice?  I mean, Frank didn't insist that Currie come to his Pittsburgh hotel room the night before the Syracuse game when Currie could've been back in Manhattan picking out hardhats for the first WSC guided tour.

[scottwildcat]

I think people have identified what Currie's main talent/focus is (CFO), and he realizes that the money is in football.  Basketball, while a revenue sport, isn't going to generate the margins that he needs to get what he (and maybe the Animal) wants done.  Especially when the market (i.e. Kansas) is already saturated with people and sponsors pumping major dollars into the other school in our sparsely populated state.

If you're a money guy, and you see the difference in investment and interest between Kansas State and Kansas in football, and you know that your potential profit margin in football far exceeds what could be done in basketball, of course you're going to pump your money and time into that program.  It's not rocket science.  Especially when trying to compete with Kansas in basketball in this state is like Microsoft trying to chip away at mp3 market share with the Zune.  Sure, it may be a nice product, and a lot of people will really enjoy it, but is it going to unseat the iPod?  No.  So, why invest more than necessary?

oscar Weber is the perfect hire for an AD that wants to focus on football and facilities improvements.  Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't, and every once in a while, if the stars align, he may get to the second weekend of the tournament.  He won't get you into trouble, most of the fans will eat up his schtick after he wins with Frank's players (this year at least), and Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

I love this site, but it is definitely skewed in favoritism towards basketball.  An AD, especially one raised in the SEC, will look at basketball with an interest above most non-revenue sports, but it is not something they're going to want to spend a lot of time and resources on.  You don't go pumping a crap ton of money and time into a product that will move your share of a small market a few percentage points.  You'll pump that time and money into a venture with high margins where you can own the market.  And if we can finally capitalize on the current momentum with football and facilities improvements to further the divide between us and Kansas, you bet Currie will do that because that's where our conference is headed, that's where college athletics are headed, and it's what's going to give us the money to spend on luxuries like a high-priced basketball coach and a nice basketball program.

Football first.  Especially here.  Especially now.  Don't let basketball turn into an Asbury/Wooly dumpster fire (and it won't under Weber), and come back to it later after we've spent $150 million on the football stadium and secured our post-Snyder future.

Now, back to football coaches.  Who's next Dax?

Great post.

[8manpick]

Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't.

Except that 4 out of 6 times he has missed the NCAA tournament, he was missed the NIT as well. 2 out of 3 at both Illinois and Southern Illinois.  Also he missed the NIT 2 of the last 5 years. #burnthismotherfuckerdown

[Panjandrum]

Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

Agree with all the points about why football needs to be the profit-maker, but didn't Currie spend a lot of time dealing (rough ridin') with basketball by choice?  I mean, Frank didn't insist that Currie come to his Pittsburgh hotel room the night before the Syracuse game when Currie could've been back in Manhattan picking out hardhats for the first WSC guided tour.

You spend 80% of your time dealing with 20% of your "problem employees".

I think.  I heard that in some management class.  But I think it applies here.  If Frank was a big problem for him, and I'm going to assume that Frank was very high maintenance, I can see a guy like Currie wanting him gone if he didn't want to make basketball his primary focus.

I'm sure a part of their friction was Frank feeling like we didn't give him or his program enough focus, and Currie wondering why a basketball coach is demanding so much of his money/time.  Both points were probably valid, but in this instance, Currie wins because we just don't have as much pie to go around here like they would at, say, South Carolina.

A good CFO puts money where it makes money.  A good executive also knows where to spend his time and effort because time is money.  For every meeting he had to take with Frank, or for every little fire of Frank's he had to put out, that was money he wasn't spending hitting people up for money somewhere else.  I'm sure it rubbed him wrong.

[PurpleSleezyE]

I think people have identified what Currie's main talent/focus is (CFO), and he realizes that the money is in football.  Basketball, while a revenue sport, isn't going to generate the margins that he needs to get what he (and maybe the Animal) wants done.  Especially when the market (i.e. Kansas) is already saturated with people and sponsors pumping major dollars into the other school in our sparsely populated state.

If you're a money guy, and you see the difference in investment and interest between Kansas State and Kansas in football, and you know that your potential profit margin in football far exceeds what could be done in basketball, of course you're going to pump your money and time into that program.  It's not rocket science.  Especially when trying to compete with Kansas in basketball in this state is like Microsoft trying to chip away at mp3 market share with the Zune.  Sure, it may be a nice product, and a lot of people will really enjoy it, but is it going to unseat the iPod?  No.  So, why invest more than necessary?

oscar Weber is the perfect hire for an AD that wants to focus on football and facilities improvements.  Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't, and every once in a while, if the stars align, he may get to the second weekend of the tournament.  He won't get you into trouble, most of the fans will eat up his schtick after he wins with Frank's players (this year at least), and Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

I love this site, but it is definitely skewed in favoritism towards basketball.  An AD, especially one raised in the SEC, will look at basketball with an interest above most non-revenue sports, but it is not something they're going to want to spend a lot of time and resources on.  You don't go pumping a crap ton of money and time into a product that will move your share of a small market a few percentage points.  You'll pump that time and money into a venture with high margins where you can own the market.  And if we can finally capitalize on the current momentum with football and facilities improvements to further the divide between us and Kansas, you bet Currie will do that because that's where our conference is headed, that's where college athletics are headed, and it's what's going to give us the money to spend on luxuries like a high-priced basketball coach and a nice basketball program.

Football first.  Especially here.  Especially now.  Don't let basketball turn into an Asbury/Wooly dumpster fire (and it won't under Weber), and come back to it later after we've spent $150 million on the football stadium and secured our post-Snyder future.

Now, back to football coaches.  Who's next Dax?

DAMN!  That was a quality post, albeit a long one! 

[michigancat]

I don't like your tone, Pan. You aren't smarter or more rational than anyone here.

Currie mumped up the basketball situation, plain and simple. Football has nothing to do with it.

[Panjandrum]

Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't.

Except that 4 out of 6 times he has missed the NCAA tournament, he was missed the NIT as well. 2 out of 3 at both Illinois and Southern Illinois.  Also he missed the NIT 2 of the last 5 years. #burnthismotherfuckerdown

Yeah, but I think he'll do better there than at Illinois (overall, not in individual season success).  I just think it's a better fit here for him.

People can argue with me on that, but I'm not going to fight about it here.  Mine feelings are more subjective, and a lot of the burn it down guys have already crafted a million arguments with valid objective analysis.

Look, we can sit here and argue over, "Why Weber?"  But the fact of the matter is that if it wasn't Weber, it was going to be someone else that didn't live up to our expectations.  To get a basketball coach to move from job X to job Y, even if it's a lateral gig, you're going to overpay, and you're going to overpay big.  I'm sure it would have cost us at least $2.X million to get Tad Boyle.  Now, when you look at it on it's face, you think, "Yeah, I'd rather have Tad Boyle."  But if you're a money guy, and Currie is a money guy, are you going to say, "Yeah, I'm going to pay $2.X million for Tad Boyle,"?  No, you're not.  You're going to set your price point and find a coach that fits the price point.

We got oscar Weber for less than $2 million a year (for a while at least). His staff isn't overly expensive. We're recruiting in easily accessible areas (Chicago, Dallas) from our airport. Again, when you look at it from a financial perspective and not a fan perspective, this is exactly the choice John Currie was going to make.  How many times are you going to get a Final Four/Consensus Coach of the year for less than $2 million?  Not many.  Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that's what's going through the money guy's head.

Also, throw the SIU crap out.  It was a mess when he took it over.  He built that program from nothing.  Let's give him credit for that.  He didn't get the UI job for being a crappy mid-major coach.

[Trim]

Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

Agree with all the points about why football needs to be the profit-maker, but didn't Currie spend a lot of time dealing (rough ridin') with basketball by choice?  I mean, Frank didn't insist that Currie come to his Pittsburgh hotel room the night before the Syracuse game when Currie could've been back in Manhattan picking out hardhats for the first WSC guided tour.

You spend 80% of your time dealing with 20% of your "problem employees".

I think.  I heard that in some management class.  But I think it applies here.  If Frank was a big problem for him, and I'm going to assume that Frank was very high maintenance, I can see a guy like Currie wanting him gone if he didn't want to make basketball his primary focus.

I'm sure a part of their friction was Frank feeling like we didn't give him or his program enough focus, and Currie wondering why a basketball coach is demanding so much of his money/time.  Both points were probably valid, but in this instance, Currie wins because we just don't have as much pie to go around here like they would at, say, South Carolina.

A good CFO puts money where it makes money.  A good executive also knows where to spend his time and effort because time is money.  For every meeting he had to take with Frank, or for every little fire of Frank's he had to put out, that was money he wasn't spending hitting people up for money somewhere else.  I'm sure it rubbed him wrong.

I don't think Frank wanted any time with Currie.   

Mods, edit the gif of Currie being creepy at the Nebraska hoops game into this post.

[8manpick]

Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't.

Except that 4 out of 6 times he has missed the NCAA tournament, he was missed the NIT as well. 2 out of 3 at both Illinois and Southern Illinois.  Also he missed the NIT 2 of the last 5 years. #burnthismotherfuckerdown

1. Yeah, but I think he'll do better there than at Illinois (overall, not in individual season success).  I just think it's a better fit here for him.

2. Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that's what's going through the money guy's head.

3. Also, throw the SIU crap out.  It was a mess when he took it over.  He built that program from nothing.  Let's give him credit for that.  He didn't get the UI job for being a crappy mid-major coach.

1. Hope so
2. yup
3. The point wasn't that he missed twice at SIU, that was to be expected, just that they weren't all at SIU.

[Trim]

Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't.

Except that 4 out of 6 times he has missed the NCAA tournament, he was missed the NIT as well. 2 out of 3 at both Illinois and Southern Illinois.  Also he missed the NIT 2 of the last 5 years. #burnthismotherfuckerdown

Yeah, but I think he'll do better there than at Illinois (overall, not in individual season success).  I just think it's a better fit here for him.

People can argue with me on that, but I'm not going to fight about it here.  Mine feelings are more subjective, and a lot of the burn it down guys have already crafted a million arguments with valid objective analysis.

Look, we can sit here and argue over, "Why Weber?"  But the fact of the matter is that if it wasn't Weber, it was going to be someone else that didn't live up to our expectations.  To get a basketball coach to move from job X to job Y, even if it's a lateral gig, you're going to overpay, and you're going to overpay big.  I'm sure it would have cost us at least $2.X million to get Tad Boyle.  Now, when you look at it on it's face, you think, "Yeah, I'd rather have Tad Boyle."  But if you're a money guy, and Currie is a money guy, are you going to say, "Yeah, I'm going to pay $2.X million for Tad Boyle,"?  No, you're not.  You're going to set your price point and find a coach that fits the price point.

We got oscar Weber for less than $2 million a year (for a while at least). His staff isn't overly expensive. We're recruiting in easily accessible areas (Chicago, Dallas) from our airport. Again, when you look at it from a financial perspective and not a fan perspective, this is exactly the choice John Currie was going to make.  How many times are you going to get a Final Four/Consensus Coach of the year for less than $2 million?  Not many.  Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that's what's going through the money guy's head.

Also, throw the SIU crap out.  It was a mess when he took it over.  He built that program from nothing.  Let's give him credit for that.  He didn't get the UI job for being a crappy mid-major coach.

How much would #Gottlieb4KSU have cost?  Currie could've saved some money on the intro presser itself by outsourcing that whole thing to KK.

[Panjandrum]

I don't like your tone, Pan. You aren't smarter or more rational than anyone here.

Currie mumped up the basketball situation, plain and simple. Football has nothing to do with it.

I never said that I was.

And people are acting like Currie was going to go out there and spend a bunch of money on a known commodity or any money on an unknown commodity (i.e. Gottlieb) for a sport we aren't going to make a lot of money on regardless, and you know he's not going to do that.

Regardless of whether or not it would be the hire I would have made, or whether or not I like the hire is irrelevant.  The general tone is that Currie won't hire a good football coach because he screwed up the Weber hire.  I contend that's not the case because Currie doesn't give a crap about basketball (or no more than he has to) and he made what he considers to be a safe choice based on comfort and economics.

As stated, he had a hand in Tennessee hiring Lane Kiffin.  Obviously, that's exactly the kind of football hire we'll need to make, so his track record states that he's not afraid to think outside the box in football because, again, that's where the money is.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Currie can just be left to go work on the stuff he wants to deal with.  He won't have to spend a bunch of time worrying about a demanding basketball coach, nor will he have to worry about dealing with constant re-negotiations when other schools make a run at him every year.

Agree with all the points about why football needs to be the profit-maker, but didn't Currie spend a lot of time dealing (rough ridin') with basketball by choice?  I mean, Frank didn't insist that Currie come to his Pittsburgh hotel room the night before the Syracuse game when Currie could've been back in Manhattan picking out hardhats for the first WSC guided tour.

You spend 80% of your time dealing with 20% of your "problem employees".

I think.  I heard that in some management class.  But I think it applies here.  If Frank was a big problem for him, and I'm going to assume that Frank was very high maintenance, I can see a guy like Currie wanting him gone if he didn't want to make basketball his primary focus.

I'm sure a part of their friction was Frank feeling like we didn't give him or his program enough focus, and Currie wondering why a basketball coach is demanding so much of his money/time.  Both points were probably valid, but in this instance, Currie wins because we just don't have as much pie to go around here like they would at, say, South Carolina.

A good CFO puts money where it makes money.  A good executive also knows where to spend his time and effort because time is money.  For every meeting he had to take with Frank, or for every little fire of Frank's he had to put out, that was money he wasn't spending hitting people up for money somewhere else.  I'm sure it rubbed him wrong.

a couple of things...


-brevity is the soul of wit.  remember that for future posts.
-currie sure has put a lot of time and money into the basketball practice facility given how little amount of time and money you suggest he wants to spend on basketball.
-i'm pretty sure frank with have been pretty happy with less currie, not more like you suggest.
-keeping basketball at a high level did not have to mean taking away from football, like you suggest. i expect people to walk and chew gum at the same time.
-losing frank and replacing him with weber provides a data point that suggests currie cannot keep attractive coaches and cannont hire attractive coaches. no more/no less.
-nobody here has ever been against pumping money into football like you seem to think and i personally resent you trying to paint it that way. we all wish they'd pump more into it. like flying the players to dallas for their bowl game instead of trying to make them bus down there for starters.

[Trim]

The general tone is that Currie won't hire a good football coach because he screwed up the Weber hire. 

My tone is that Currie won't hire a good football coach because the word is out among coaches that Currie's a douchebag, and money can't buy your AD not being a douchebag.  Is that how the song goes?

[Panjandrum]

Weber will go to some tournaments, he will most likely make the NIT when he doesn't.

Except that 4 out of 6 times he has missed the NCAA tournament, he was missed the NIT as well. 2 out of 3 at both Illinois and Southern Illinois.  Also he missed the NIT 2 of the last 5 years. #burnthismotherfuckerdown

Yeah, but I think he'll do better there than at Illinois (overall, not in individual season success).  I just think it's a better fit here for him.

People can argue with me on that, but I'm not going to fight about it here.  Mine feelings are more subjective, and a lot of the burn it down guys have already crafted a million arguments with valid objective analysis.

Look, we can sit here and argue over, "Why Weber?"  But the fact of the matter is that if it wasn't Weber, it was going to be someone else that didn't live up to our expectations.  To get a basketball coach to move from job X to job Y, even if it's a lateral gig, you're going to overpay, and you're going to overpay big.  I'm sure it would have cost us at least $2.X million to get Tad Boyle.  Now, when you look at it on it's face, you think, "Yeah, I'd rather have Tad Boyle."  But if you're a money guy, and Currie is a money guy, are you going to say, "Yeah, I'm going to pay $2.X million for Tad Boyle,"?  No, you're not.  You're going to set your price point and find a coach that fits the price point.

We got oscar Weber for less than $2 million a year (for a while at least). His staff isn't overly expensive. We're recruiting in easily accessible areas (Chicago, Dallas) from our airport. Again, when you look at it from a financial perspective and not a fan perspective, this is exactly the choice John Currie was going to make.  How many times are you going to get a Final Four/Consensus Coach of the year for less than $2 million?  Not many.  Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that's what's going through the money guy's head.

Also, throw the SIU crap out.  It was a mess when he took it over.  He built that program from nothing.  Let's give him credit for that.  He didn't get the UI job for being a crappy mid-major coach.

How much would #Gottlieb4KSU have cost?  Currie could've saved some money on the intro presser itself by outsourcing that whole thing to KK.

I wanted Gottlieb as bad as anyone here, but I interact with Currie clones (albeit in a business sense) every single day, and when your butt is on the line, you don't make that hire even if you think it's a good idea.

CFO's aren't prone to making aggressive, dynamic decisions.  They're bean counters.  They want you to give them a bunch of ROI reports and references before they buy something.  They'll tell you that if they "screw this up" they'll be out of a job, so they are more conservative and judicious than nearly anyone out there based on a set of criteria that they feel comfortable associating themselves with.  It's almost as much about being comfortable telling your CEO why it failed as opposed to why it worked.

And, again, Currie is the ultimate CFO.

[michigancat]

I don't like your tone, Pan. You aren't smarter or more rational than anyone here.

Currie mumped up the basketball situation, plain and simple. Football has nothing to do with it.

I never said that I was.

And people are acting like Currie was going to go out there and spend a bunch of money on a known commodity or any money on an unknown commodity (i.e. Gottlieb) for a sport we aren't going to make a lot of money on regardless, and you know he's not going to do that.

Regardless of whether or not it would be the hire I would have made, or whether or not I like the hire is irrelevant.  The general tone is that Currie won't hire a good football coach because he screwed up the Weber hire.  I contend that's not the case because Currie doesn't give a crap about basketball (or no more than he has to) and he made what he considers to be a safe choice based on comfort and economics.

The football coaching search will be no different.