Lowery Interview on 1350

[michigancat]

the biggest problem is that our fans are rational and don't expect him to do any better, but are also simultaneously ok w/ it. give him a chance guys! let's see what he can do guys! guys we don't even know who his assistants are! guys let's see how this all plays out first before we judge! umm, no. why? i've already seen it play out. no need to watch the same movie twice.

I certainly expect him to do better.

Based on what?

Based on the rest of his career. I already said I understand the caution, but I also don't think its impossible for him to learn from what happened last year and not repeat it.

You think he will be better than his nine years at Illinois based on his time at SIU? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's rational.

I know you can't eliminate those years from his resume, they are part of who Weber as a coach is. They concern me, but I can also look at the rest of his resume and see that is not impossible for him to learn enough from his time at Illinois to avoid repeating those mistakes.

Of course it's not impossible for him to learn from his mistakes - I just don't think it's likely and I've neither seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe otherwise. If he had taken a year off? Maybe. But not taking 3 weeks off.

[michigancat]

Every poster who has been vocal in giving Weber a chance has also said he'll be judged on the merits of his coaching and specifically winning and losing. And there is no more guranantee that Weber will bury the program than if we had hired some young assistant like Hurricane or Wojo or taken a chance on Gottlieb. I'll readily admit its not as much fun, but its not like there was any guarantee any of those hires would have left K-State in a worse position than Weber will. In fact, a young inexperienced coach like that would've probably caused many fans to call for more patience than they will with Weber.

I absolutely would have been more patient with Antigua or Wojo, because they haven't proven themselves to be failures yet.

[kso_FAN]

You think he will be better than his nine years at Illinois based on his time at SIU? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's rational.

A little bit based on SIU, but I think the problems he ran into that led to both of his terrible seasons at Illinois are avoidable at K-State. And I don't think that's irrational. Heck, even if he only one of those years over a 7-8 stretch and the rest of his career looks like year 3 through year 7 he will be fine.

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

[Mr Bread]

Holy hullabaloo that's f-ing depressing.  At the end I just didn't care about Illinois basketball.  Zero interest.  It's worse than being pissed at the program.  Just no feeling.  I can't fathom what you're going through.

I am literally in awe that Weber landed on his feet in all of this.  I still can't believe he's coaching KSU.  It's this morbid fascination.  I have to bear witness to how this ends, good or bad. 

i don't think weber will bury the program.  i'm sure it will be ok when he's done with it.  i just think he's ten years of boring, bubbly basketball.  we don't live that long, it pisses me the eff off that currie stole ten years of my basketball viewing prime.

i feel the exact same way and i'm also kind of an illinois fan, so i'm going to have 20 years of weber. it's not fair. it just isn't. i mean illinois finally got rid of him and i did a fistpump and then this. i'm just broken.

[SleepFighter]

You think he will be better than his nine years at Illinois based on his time at SIU? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's rational.

A little bit based on SIU, but I think the problems he ran into that led to both of his terrible seasons at Illinois are avoidable at K-State. And I don't think that's irrational. Heck, even if he only one of those years over a 7-8 stretch and the rest of his career looks like year 3 through year 7 he will be fine.

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

[kso_FAN]

Holy hullabaloo that's f-ing depressing.  At the end I just didn't care about Illinois basketball.  Zero interest.  It's worse than being pissed at the program.  Just no feeling.  I can't fathom what you're going through.

K-State was much worse just 7 years ago. You really can't imagine what that was like.

[michigancat]

You think he will be better than his nine years at Illinois based on his time at SIU? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's rational.

A little bit based on SIU, but I think the problems he ran into that led to both of his terrible seasons at Illinois are avoidable at K-State. And I don't think that's irrational. Heck, even if he only one of those years over a 7-8 stretch and the rest of his career looks like year 3 through year 7 he will be fine.

Of course his terrible seasons are avoidable, but that doesn't mean he will be able to. They were avoidable at Illinois and he didn't avoid them. Logically, you would expect him to have a few seasons like that at KSU.

Additionally, it is easier to win at Illinois than KSU - they simply have more resources and advantages.


p.s. every coach looks better when you take out their worst season.

[Belvis Noland]

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

Wouldn't be terrible by any stretch.  Fireable?  Hell no.  Pretty much Frank Martin bball.  Missed 1 postseason, which Frank never did.  Also finished 2nd on Conference twice, which Frank never did.  give or take, Frankesque results.   

[michigancat]

You think he will be better than his nine years at Illinois based on his time at SIU? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's rational.

A little bit based on SIU, but I think the problems he ran into that led to both of his terrible seasons at Illinois are avoidable at K-State. And I don't think that's irrational. Heck, even if he only one of those years over a 7-8 stretch and the rest of his career looks like year 3 through year 7 he will be fine.

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

Well said.

[Belvis Noland]

p.s. every coach looks better worse when you take out their worst best season.

 

[kso_FAN]

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

I simply asked if that was fireable.

I hope he does more than that, but I won't consider him to be a major disappointment or a destroyer of K-State basketball as we know it if that is what his first 6 years looks like.

[Belvis Noland]

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

Do you think Martin had attained his ceiling at K-State? 

Do you think Martin knew this? 

Did our fans accept it? 

[michigancat]

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

Do you think Martin had attained his ceiling at K-State? 

Do you think Martin knew this? 

Did our fans accept it? 

Not SF, but I'll answer anyway:

Frank may have attained his ceiling in 09-10, but I think it could have been repeated several times, starting with next season.

Not sure if Martin knew my thoughts on the matter.

I am fine with that season as a ceiling.

[SleepFighter]

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

I simply asked if that was fireable.

I hope he does more than that, but I won't consider him to be a major disappointment or a destroyer of K-State basketball as we know it if that is what his first 6 years looks like.

What if that is what the next 12 years look like?

No, he won't have destroyed K-State basketball.  He'll have just ground out a long stretch without delivering much excitement.

[Trim]

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

Wouldn't be terrible by any stretch.  Fireable?  Hell no.  Pretty much Frank Martin bball.  Missed 1 postseason, which Frank never did. Also finished 2nd on Conference twice, which Frank never did.  give or take, Frankesque results.   

This, and the sub-.500 overall, .333 conference record that year, are a big deal.  Not very Frank-like.  NO WEDNESDAYS!

Haven't looked.  12 and 11 wins were good for 2nd place up there those years? 

[kso_FAN]

Additionally, it is easier to win at Illinois than KSU - they simply have more resources and advantages.

They have some resource advantages compared to K-State, but not as great as I would have thought. Their athletics budget was 70.2 mil last year, ours was 51.5. But compared to the rest of their league they are pretty similar; their budget was 9th in the Big 10, our was 8th in the Big 12. Its not like their resources are far greater than ours compared to the rest of their league.

[SleepFighter]

Whether that is fireable or not, K-State won't fire him if he does that.  He'll retire here.  And I think that is about his ceiling.  Which sucks.  Why is that okay for an upper bound?

Do you think Martin had attained his ceiling at K-State? 

Do you think Martin knew this? 

Did our fans accept it? 

Not SF, but I'll answer anyway:

Frank may have attained his ceiling in 09-10, but I think it could have been repeated several times, starting with next season.

Not sure if Martin knew my thoughts on the matter.

I am fine with that season as a ceiling.

This is pretty well said.  And if you have a team as good as 09-10 a couple of times, you might end up winning a championship or getting to a Final Four. 

I believe that Weber is capable of matching the average Frank level of success most years.  But instead of reaching up every four or five, I expect us to dip down.

[kso_FAN]

This, and the sub-.500 overall, .333 conference record that year, are a big deal.  Not very Frank-like.  NO WEDNESDAYS!

Haven't looked.  12 and 11 wins were good for 2nd place up there those years? 

I changed the record to fit an 18 game conference schedule to make it fit our current schedule, but kept the percentages pretty much the same.

Yes, Weber finished 2nd twice after he won the league twice, granted they were ties.

[Mr Bread]

The best season in that bunch he still had two Self studs in Dee Brown and James Augustine both seniors.  The second best season he finished tied for 2nd place in conference, but also lost to Penn State at home 38-33 and to Minnesota on the road 59-36.  He improved his record, but that team was more often than not brutal to watch on offense.  There was a very clear ceiling on what that team was capable of.  There were no illusions of an NCAA run even before Frazier got hurt.  That was hands down the best pure Weber-recruited squad and it was upset in the first round by a 12 seed and had the above-mentioned offensive abortions.  Even when he succeeded with his guys it was underwhelming as a fan.  That was the pinnacle of Weber's Illinois tenure when it was all on him.       

You think he will be better than his nine years at Illinois based on his time at SIU? I'm sorry, I just don't think that's rational.

A little bit based on SIU, but I think the problems he ran into that led to both of his terrible seasons at Illinois are avoidable at K-State. And I don't think that's irrational. Heck, even if he only one of those years over a 7-8 stretch and the rest of his career looks like year 3 through year 7 he will be fine.

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

[michigancat]

Additionally, it is easier to win at Illinois than KSU - they simply have more resources and advantages.

They have some resource advantages compared to K-State, but not as great as I would have thought. Their athletics budget was 70.2 mil last year, ours was 51.5. But compared to the rest of their league they are pretty similar; their budget was 9th in the Big 10, our was 8th in the Big 12. Its not like their resources are far greater than ours compared to the rest of their league.

Then why are you OK with us hiring their fired coaches?

[sonofdaxjones]

Not impressed with his S&C hire.

Pretty much a 

[Dr Rick Daris]

Would this be terrible for a 6 year stretch? Fireable?

26–7 12–6 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
23–12 10–8 T–4th NCAA 1st Round
16–19 6–12 T–9th 
24–10 11–7 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
21–15 10–8 5th NIT Quarterfinals
20–14 9–9 T–4th NCAA 2nd Round

Wouldn't be terrible by any stretch.  Fireable?  Hell no.  Pretty much Frank Martin bball.  Missed 1 postseason, which Frank never did.  Also finished 2nd on Conference twice, which Frank never did.  give or take, Frankesque results.   

the guy in the above scenario only won two tournament games in six years. that's not frankesque results. it's not even close to frankesque results. frank won three times that many in one less year. you need to get your head checked.

[kso_FAN]

Additionally, it is easier to win at Illinois than KSU - they simply have more resources and advantages.

They have some resource advantages compared to K-State, but not as great as I would have thought. Their athletics budget was 70.2 mil last year, ours was 51.5. But compared to the rest of their league they are pretty similar; their budget was 9th in the Big 10, our was 8th in the Big 12. Its not like their resources are far greater than ours compared to the rest of their league.

Then why are you OK with us hiring their fired coaches?

I wasn't, but I can't change anything about that now. Neither can you. And obviously, neither can this board. No matter how much we complain.

Granted, no matter how positive I try to be about him, there is no guarantee he'll succeed either.

[Belvis Noland]

Frank may have attained his ceiling in 09-10, but I think it could have been repeated several times, starting with next season.

So Frank's ceiling is his best year (by far).  But Weber's ceiling is not. 

Makes perfect sense. 

[michigancat]

Frank may have attained his ceiling in 09-10, but I think it could have been repeated several times, starting with next season.

So Frank's ceiling is his best year (by far).  But Weber's ceiling is not. 

Makes perfect sense. 

Frank's best conference record was 11-5. He got 10-6 three times. oscar's best conference season was 15-1, and he got to 13-3 once, 11-5 once, and 11-7 once.

Which do you think is more likely to occur again?