Lowery Interview on 1350

[Trim]

[LickNeckey]

I also don't think losing or keeping Angel will have anything to do with his long-term success at KSU - I only think losing Angel will give Weber some nice low expectations for the next 3 years or so.

Angel has a lot to do with his long-term success at KSU, IMO.  If he loses Angel, we have no PG and '12-'13 could be a disaster.  '13'-'14 could be a disaster b/c we lose the core nucleus of our team. 

Absent some high profile infusion of talent in the program, Weber could be gone after 2 disaster years.  Unfortunately, it seems like most on this board are hoping desperately for said disaster so that they can say "I told you so."

This isn't an "I told you so"

It's a thank god lets get the program back on track

[SdK]

So if the posts on Wabash are to true, it sounds like Frank had burned multiple AAU bridges and had pissed up the KC AAU punch bowl so badly that K-State was pretty much locked out completely.

Yes, dax, I'm aware that Doc's disgruntled people have told many EMAWs that Frank sucks and that all of those EMAWs are spreading that info in every forum available.

Yeah, I am sure TeamDoc consists of legions of people.   

5 or less who whine to every EMAW they can find and will happy to feeling ITK.

Oh yeah, I am sure they were all out to get Frank.   Could never actually see Frank burning any bridges now that I think about it.   

Man o man, I read goEMAW too much. Everytime I see or hear anything about burning bridges I immediately think

"May the bridges I burn light the way"

I have used this line twice a week since Trim, I believe, posted the youtube link. I should probably stop burning bridges.

[Belvis Noland]

This isn't an "I told you so"

It's a thank god lets get the program back on track

ok

[catzacker]

ok, i'll say this knowing that it isn't a perfect analogy, but should I have "cheered" for Wooly to make the NIT in his final season?  What about the season before that?  I hated it when Wooly beat a ranked UT team at home with the hundreds of fans rushing the court.  It was absurdly meaningless, yet served to some/most as some kind of marker for future success. 

[michigancat]

I also don't think losing or keeping Angel will have anything to do with his long-term success at KSU - I only think losing Angel will give Weber some nice low expectations for the next 3 years or so.

Angel has a lot to do with his long-term success at KSU, IMO.  If he loses Angel, we have no PG and '12-'13 could be a disaster.  '13'-'14 could be a disaster b/c we lose the core nucleus of our team. 

Absent some high profile infusion of talent in the program, Weber could be gone after 2 disaster years. 

Do you really think he would be gone after 2 years? Do you think that would be fair?

[Belvis Noland]

ok, i'll say this knowing that it isn't a perfect analogy, but should I have "cheered" for Wooly to make the NIT in his final season?  What about the season before that?  I hated it when Wooly beat a ranked UT team at home with the hundreds of fans rushing the court.  It was absurdly meaningless, yet served to some/most as some kind of marker for future success.

Wooly comparos are imperfect by nature.  Dude's arguably the worst DI coach in the game for the past 20 years. 

Notwithstanding, you should have cheered him to make the NCAA in his first season.  Once Wooly proved his ability to us, or lack thereof, cheering him past year 1 was no longer warranted. 

Clearly, this isn't where we're at with Weber.  clearly, right?  Is this really being debated?  Are the Asbury/Wooly comparos serious?  I assumed they were gross exagerations.  But, you guys keep making the comparos, so now I'm getting worried. 

Weber can coach.  This much is not debatable.  Weber has a good returning team.  This much is not debatable.  Weber has proven he can do good things with good teams.  This much is not debatable. 

So, serious question, why the eff aren't we supporting this dude and hoping for a deep NCAA run next year?  Because it's possible that we'll suck in 5 years? 

When we re-hired Snyder (after a Weberesque end to his first tenure), it was a definite possibility that we'd suck balls.  And we may suck again in 5 years.  Yet, I found myself at 5 home games this past season and packing it to DFW for the Cotton Bowl.  Moral of the story - give the guy a rough ridin' chance.  Sometimes it's good to not be a whiny bitch all the time and just enjoy some sporting events.       

[catzacker]

our roster is nowhere near the roster he took over at Illinois.  he has proven at illinois (the only comparable place in his head coaching career to ksu) that he will fail.  that he'll turn whatever he has into a failure. 

[_33]

Belvis Noland, why are you taking such a passionate stance on this? Seems like an incredibly stupid thing to care so much about. Some people don't want to give him a chance. It will have no effect on his success/failure at KSU so just get over it.

[kso_FAN]

Wooly comparos are imperfect by nature.  Dude's arguably the worst DI coach in the game for the past 20 years. 

Notwithstanding, you should have cheered him to make the NCAA in his first season.  Once Wooly proved his ability to us, or lack thereof, cheering him past year 1 was no longer warranted. 

Clearly, this isn't where we're at with Weber.  clearly, right?  Is this really being debated?  Are the Asbury/Wooly comparos serious?  I assumed they were gross exagerations.  But, you guys keep making the comparos, so now I'm getting worried. 

Weber can coach.  This much is not debatable.  Weber has a good returning team.  This much is not debatable.  Weber has proven he can do good things with good teams.  This much is not debatable. 

So, serious question, why the eff aren't we supporting this dude and hoping for a deep NCAA run next year?  Because it's possible that we'll suck in 5 years? 

When we re-hired Snyder (after a Weberesque end to his first tenure), it was a definite possibility that we'd suck balls.  And we may suck again in 5 years.  Yet, I found myself at 5 home games this past season and packing it to DFW for the Cotton Bowl.  Moral of the story - give the guy a rough ridin' chance.  Sometimes it's good to not be a whiny bitch all the time and just enjoy some sporting events.       

I can take some of the blame here, I originally brought up the Asbury and Wooldridge comparison and it was wrong and not really fair. He certainly has done nothing to show he's nearly as bad as Wooly, not even close. And the Asbury comparison was a reach simply because he lost a team, but he didn't quit on a program like Asbury did. I was part of the problem with Wooly, I'll readily admit that. He clearly should've been fired after year 3 (and maybe year 2), you can't let a coach flounder at a below .500 level for more than a couple years. I was a stupid fan at the time, very dumb, and I gave him too many excuses and too much patience. I won't make that mistake as a fan again, at the end of the day if you show you can't win games at this level you need to move on or be let go. It doesn't matter if you are likable or not, or at least it shouldn't.

[Belvis Noland]

Do you really think he would be gone after 2 years? Do you think that would be fair?

Depends on what happens in 2 years and what he has returning in year 3. 

If we miss the postseason, entirely, in years 1 or 2, I think it'd be fair to terminate him.  The last thing we can afford (especially when we're flush with $$$) is to return to bball indifference. 

If he goes to an NCAA, and NIT in yrs1 and 2, I think it's be grossly unfair to terminate him outright.  Remember, that's what Frank did. 

His recruiting will also be a factor to consider.  Hard to say what should or shouldn't happen in 3-4 years because we don't know anything about staff, players, or recruits.  I guess, this is ultimately my point.  We don't know.  Accordingly, I think it's a bit premature to throw him under the bus.  If he had a Wooly or Asbury track record, I could understand the preemptive strike.  But, Weber ain't Wooly. 

[LickNeckey]

ok, i'll say this knowing that it isn't a perfect analogy, but should I have "cheered" for Wooly to make the NIT in his final season?  What about the season before that?  I hated it when Wooly beat a ranked UT team at home with the hundreds of fans rushing the court.  It was absurdly meaningless, yet served to some/most as some kind of marker for future success.

Wooly comparos are imperfect by nature.  Dude's arguably the worst DI coach in the game for the past 20 years. 

Notwithstanding, you should have cheered him to make the NCAA in his first season.  Once Wooly proved his ability to us, or lack thereof, cheering him past year 1 was no longer warranted. 

Clearly, this isn't where we're at with Weber.  clearly, right?  Is this really being debated?  Are the Asbury/Wooly comparos serious?  I assumed they were gross exagerations.  But, you guys keep making the comparos, so now I'm getting worried. 

Weber can coach.  This much is not debatable.  Weber has a good returning team.  This much is not debatable.  Weber has proven he can do good things with good teams.  This much is not debatable. 

So, serious question, why the eff aren't we supporting this dude and hoping for a deep NCAA run next year?  Because it's possible that we'll suck in 5 years? 

When we re-hired Snyder (after a Weberesque end to his first tenure), it was a definite possibility that we'd suck balls.  And we may suck again in 5 years.  Yet, I found myself at 5 home games this past season and packing it to DFW for the Cotton Bowl.  Moral of the story - give the guy a rough ridin' chance.   Sometimes it's good to not be a whiny bitch all the time and just enjoy some sporting events.       

NO, eff You

[Belvis Noland]

our roster is nowhere near the roster he took over at Illinois. 

And, again, we've never accomplished anywhere near what Weber accomplished with that Illini roster. 

[CNS]

It's prob been posted, but does anyone know what his contract says about buy out?  I mean, we didn't go full on KU/Gill here did we?

[michigancat]

our roster is nowhere near the roster he took over at Illinois.  he has proven at illinois (the only comparable place in his head coaching career to ksu) that he will fail.  that he'll turn whatever he has into a failure. 

This. Illinois was his chance, and he got fired for losing.

There is nothing about the Kansas State job that should make a rational person think he will do better here.

[Belvis Noland]

Belvis Noland, why are you taking such a passionate stance on this? Seems like an incredibly stupid thing to care so much about.

As a guy who's had season tix since Huggs took over and who's been to every tournament appearance (BigXII, NCAA) in the region, I guess I'm just passionate about KSU basketball.  eff me, maybe I shouldn't be. 

[michigancat]

But, Weber ain't Wooly. 

Agreed - he's Mike Davis.

[kso_FAN]

It's prob been posted, but does anyone know what his contract says about buy out?  I mean, we didn't go full on KU/Gill here did we?

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ksu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2011-12/misc_non_event/Bruce_Weber_Contract.pdf

[catzacker]

for the record, the wooly comparison was only related to the "should I cheer for ksu to win" thing.  i think oscar is better than wooly.  but, like, alot of guys are.

[Dr Rick Daris]

our roster is nowhere near the roster he took over at Illinois.  he has proven at illinois (the only comparable place in his head coaching career to ksu) that he will fail.  that he'll turn whatever he has into a failure. 

This. Illinois was his chance, and he got fired for losing.

There is nothing about the Kansas State job that should make a rational person think he will do better here.

the biggest problem is that our fans are rational and don't expect him to do any better, but are also simultaneously ok w/ it. give him a chance guys! let's see what he can do guys! guys we don't even know who his assistants are! guys let's see how this all plays out first before we judge! umm, no. why? i've already seen it play out. no need to watch the same movie twice.

[kso_FAN]

the biggest problem is that our fans are rational and don't expect him to do any better, but are also simultaneously ok w/ it. give him a chance guys! let's see what he can do guys! guys we don't even know who his assistants are! guys let's see how this all plays out first before we judge! umm, no. why? i've already seen it play out. no need to watch the same movie twice.

I certainly expect him to do better.

I expect him to not repeat what got him fired at Illinois; two dreadful conference seasons where he finished .278 and .333. Illinois gave him a fair chance after the first one and he responded with 3 pretty decent seasons after that. It was the 2nd one that got him fired and if he does that at K-State he should be fired too. I see the caution in thinking that its likely he'll do the same here, but I don't think its a guarantee. Every other season he's ever coached he's been .500 or better in conference play.

[michigancat]

the biggest problem is that our fans are rational and don't expect him to do any better, but are also simultaneously ok w/ it. give him a chance guys! let's see what he can do guys! guys we don't even know who his assistants are! guys let's see how this all plays out first before we judge! umm, no. why? i've already seen it play out. no need to watch the same movie twice.

I certainly expect him to do better.

Based on what?

[_33]

Belvis Noland, why are you taking such a passionate stance on this? Seems like an incredibly stupid thing to care so much about.

As a guy who's had season tix since Huggs took over and who's been to every tournament appearance (BigXII, NCAA) in the region, I guess I'm just passionate about KSU basketball.  eff me, maybe I shouldn't be.

You didn't understand my post. That's ok, it doesn't bother me.

[sys]

his team quit on him.  other than he can't recruit, there's nothing worse you can say about a coach.


and it wasn't like they were 5-20 and they just decided to coast out the last few games.  they quit on him when all they had to do was go like .333 over their last 10 to make the tourney.

[Trim]

It's prob been posted, but does anyone know what his contract says about buy out?  I mean, we didn't go full on KU/Gill here did we?

Lesser of 2.5m or whatever's left on his term.