K-State basketball history and oscar Weber

[bubbles4ksu]

Good write up _FAN, I agree with the basic ideas in the blog.  I'm on #teamGiveWeberAChance, and I hope he has a 5 year run similar to Frank's.  But if we slip down to the 15-18 win type of seasons, I'm afraid that the apathy we saw in the late 90s/2000s will come back quickly, and you'll see 6,000 fans for home games against conference teams, and that bums me out.  I've loved the passion for KSU basketball the fan base has had in recent years, just hope it isn't washed away 2 years from now.

It could be washed away by February 2013. That's why all this is so terrifying/enraging. oscar will at best be a downgrade and has a good shot at being a total failure.

[Cartierfor3]

Don't you think he could end up being the anti-Haith next year?  This roster, while talented, is a Frank Martin roster and our guards are nothing special.  Weber's successes came with elite level guards and we don't have it

[kstate4life]

This sort of piggybacks off of steve dave's earlier post. I wrote it earlier today and wasn't sure what to do with it. It's long and many won't read it. Of those that do, many probably won't agree. Regardless, its where I've come to and partially why I'll support Weber at K-State.

http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=2009

Thanks again _Fan for taking the time to put things into perspective.  I too am now giving BW a chance.  Much appreciated!

[kso_FAN]

Thanks again _Fan for taking the time to put things into perspective.  I too am now giving BW a chance.  Much appreciated!

[0.42]

Thanks again _Fan for taking the time to put things into perspective.  I too am now giving BW a chance.  Much appreciated!

 

[catzacker]

Thanks again _Fan for taking the time to put things into perspective.  I too am now giving BW a chance.  Much appreciated!

a tip of the cap

[Saulbadguy]

No way.

oscar is a loser. He'll be a catastrophic loser/failure here.

thus the cycle repeats. Weberites.

[michigancat]

I honestly believe that wouldn't happen again now. That apathy came with back to back to back poor hires. The cumulative effect of Altman failing, then Asbury failing, and then an absolutely awful hire led to that. And because football was king no one cared enough to do anything about it.

I think if Weber has a run of below .500 conference play, more NITs than NCAAs, etc. he'll be gone quickly. Just like Atlman was. I know that if he has been here 3 years and his conference record is below .500 and he has only 1 NCAA I'll want him gone.

I'm holding you to this. And I'm guessing you and I will be lonely at that point.

[kso_FAN]

I honestly believe that wouldn't happen again now. That apathy came with back to back to back poor hires. The cumulative effect of Altman failing, then Asbury failing, and then an absolutely awful hire led to that. And because football was king no one cared enough to do anything about it.

I think if Weber has a run of below .500 conference play, more NITs than NCAAs, etc. he'll be gone quickly. Just like Atlman was. I know that if he has been here 3 years and his conference record is below .500 and he has only 1 NCAA I'll want him gone.

I'm holding you to this. And I'm guessing you and I will be lonely at that point.

I'm fine with that.

My expectations are simple really.

Finish .500 or better in the league. It would seem reasonable that no 3 year stretch should EVER have a below .500 league record. I will allow for a year every once in a while for rebuilding/reloading. Every few seasons making a run or being mentioned as a title contender would be good, but I'm not expecting annual title runs.

Make the NCAA tournament. At a MINIMUM 3 of every 5 years should be an NCAA tournament appearance. 2 year gaps between tournament appearances should be avoided. I'm okay with an NIT every once in a while. And win some games there, Weber's recent run of not winning when he does get there would be disappointing for example.

Recruit decent. I understand we'll have a lot of 3 star, non Top 100 guys, but at least land one every couple of seasons. More would be great. More will lead to being able to achieve the first 2.

[chum1]

people were super pissed at altman for his performance.  hated him.  ran his ass out of town.  on the other hand, he doesn't have a tenth of the charm of weber.  everyone saw the ice cream photos, right?

[AzCat]

I honestly believe that wouldn't happen again now. That apathy came with back to back to back poor hires. The cumulative effect of Altman failing, then Asbury failing, and then an absolutely awful hire led to that. And because football was king no one cared enough to do anything about it.

I think if Weber has a run of below .500 conference play, more NITs than NCAAs, etc. he'll be gone quickly. Just like Atlman was. I know that if he has been here 3 years and his conference record is below .500 and he has only 1 NCAA I'll want him gone.

I'm holding you to this. And I'm guessing you and I will be lonely at that point.

I'm fine with that.

My expectations are simple really.

Finish .500 or better in the league. It would seem reasonable that no 3 year stretch should EVER have a below .500 league record. I will allow for a year every once in a while for rebuilding/reloading. Every few seasons making a run or being mentioned as a title contender would be good, but I'm not expecting annual title runs.

Make the NCAA tournament. At a MINIMUM 3 of every 5 years should be an NCAA tournament appearance. 2 year gaps between tournament appearances should be avoided. I'm okay with an NIT every once in a while. And win some games there, Weber's recent run of not winning when he does get there would be disappointing for example.

Recruit decent. I understand we'll have a lot of 3 star, non Top 100 guys, but at least land one every couple of seasons. More would be great. More will lead to being able to achieve the first 2.

What you're laying out there is pretty much the very definition of mediocrity for a major.  Weber is going to be just dandy for you. 

[kso_FAN]

people were super pissed at altman for his performance.  hated him.  ran his ass out of town.  on the other hand, he doesn't have a tenth of the charm of weber.  everyone saw the ice cream photos, right?

Fair points.

But if Weber goes 4-14, 6-12, 9-9, and 5-13 in the Big 12 I will want him gone.

I mean Altman won 34% of his total Big 8 games. Even in the last 6 years, oscar won 32% of his Big 10 road games.

[kso_FAN]

What you're laying out there is pretty much the very definition of mediocrity for a major.  Weber is going to be just dandy for you. 

I posted pretty much the same expectations for Frank several times. Finish above .500 in the league, finish in the upper half of the league, make the NCAA tournament. That is far from mediocre, JMHO.

[steve dave]

If we are consistently top 4 in the Big 12 I will be ok with it forever.  If you are consistently top 4 you have a shot at winning it every year.  You are also making the NCAA every year. 

[CNS]

I want a guy that can shed the old KSU bb image.  Frank was doing that.  Frank got us respect.

I don't want us to be 8-9 going into our last conf game and have everyone talking about how wonderful oscar has done to get us there and that if we win two in the conf tourny we will get over the bubble.

[michigancat]

If we are consistently top 4 in the Big 12 I will be ok with it forever.  If you are consistently top 4 you have a shot at winning it every year.  You are also making the NCAA every year. 

I would, too. Weber failed to do this three times in his last six years @Illinois, and twice he was tied for 4th (in the Big 10).

So we're back to hoping for rough ridin' unicorns and settling for mules.

[AzCat]

If we are consistently top 4 in the Big 12 I will be ok with it forever.  If you are consistently top 4 you have a shot at winning it every year.  You are also making the NCAA every year.

Same here.  I'm fine with that or with the somewhat lower standard of making the NCAA Tournament every year.  Frank was 4/5 there, just missed the 5th and was nearly a lock to go back at least next season and very likely the season after that. 

With Weber I expect an NCAA appearance about every 3rd year after Frank's players are gone.  In other years I expect a lot of deflection & excuses which _fan & the 'tucks will buy hook, line & sinker while consoling themselves with the fact that the NIT really isn't that bad.   At least you get a game or two at home sometimes and if you win one or two in the postseason in any tournament surely that's better than going to the nasty ol' NCAA Tournament and losing in the first round.  Again.  As usual. 

[michigancat]

If we are consistently top 4 in the Big 12 I will be ok with it forever.  If you are consistently top 4 you have a shot at winning it every year.  You are also making the NCAA every year. 

I would, too. Weber failed to do this three times in his last six years @Illinois, and twice he was tied for 4th (in the Big 10).

So we're back to hoping for rough ridin' unicorns and settling for mules.

I mean eff. How can people sit there and set expectations for Weber that he was unable to achieve at a better job. Accepting this bullshit just makes me sick.

[kso_FAN]

I loved Frank because he exceeded my expectations. They really haven't changed. Honestly. I hope we make 4 of 5 NCAAs for the rest of my life.

[LickNeckey]

so we want the guy they call Bubbles to keep us off the bubble

   FML

[steve dave]

so we want the guy they call Bubbles to keep us off the bubble

   FML

I think you are putting the cart in front of the horse on where that nickname originated....

[catzacker]

If we are consistently top 4 in the Big 12 I will be ok with it forever.  If you are consistently top 4 you have a shot at winning it every year.  You are also making the NCAA every year. 

I would, too. Weber failed to do this three times in his last six years @Illinois, and twice he was tied for 4th (in the Big 10).

So we're back to hoping for rough ridin' unicorns and settling for mules.

I mean eff. How can people sit there and set expectations for Weber that he was unable to achieve at a better job. Accepting this bullshit just makes me sick.

This is, essentially, why I can’t get behind weber at all.  I mean, to do what he did at Illinois….there aren’t enough excuses/explanations out there for it.  I simply can’t get past that.  Nor do I think I’m being irrational or illogical.  There’s simply too much data to suggest that he’s going to fail.  So the only thing that we’re left with what I’ll refer to as “forced hope”.  I can’t get behind that.  I can’t invest in that.     

[AzCat]

so we want the guy they call Bubbles to keep us off the bubble

   FML

I think you are putting the hose in front of the cart on where that nickname originated....

Yep.  Seems highly likely that Weber will keep us off the bubble most years.

[kougar24]

Good write up _FAN, I agree with the basic ideas in the blog.  I'm on #teamGiveWeberAChance, and I hope he has a 5 year run similar to Frank's.  But if we slip down to the 15-18 win type of seasons, I'm afraid that the apathy we saw in the late 90s/2000s will come back quickly, and you'll see 6,000 fans for home games against conference teams, and that bums me out.  I've loved the passion for KSU basketball the fan base has had in recent years, just hope it isn't washed away 2 years from now. 

I honestly believe that wouldn't happen again now. That apathy came with back to back to back poor hires. The cumulative effect of Altman failing, then Asbury failing, and then an absolutely awful hire led to that. And because football was king no one cared enough to do anything about it.

I think if Weber has a run of below .500 conference play, more NITs than NCAAs, etc. he'll be gone quickly. Just like Atlman was. I know that if he has been here 3 years and his conference record is below .500 and he has only 1 NCAA I'll want him gone.

I think you're wrong. I think the seeds of apathy already crawled in a little bit this past season after just one freaking 10-3 football season combined with modest expectations for bball post-Pullen.

I think just one non-NCAA season with Weber will be enough for those seeds to grow roots.

[catzacker]

i wanted a conf championship out of frank in the next 4 years.  that expectation won't change with weber.