Hiring Process Discussion with CC

[captaincrap]

Yeah, nobody is claiming that Frank isn't a huge liar because he definitely is.

It seems like this "relationship" line from JC gets pointed to on here a lot as a tipping point, where from then on you don't believe a word he says about anything. Which I don't get. I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

The tipping point for me was "trash, floor, wait...it was the floortrash"

Also, the claim that the NCAA suspended Jamar first.

Don't really know why those bother you. The trash/floor thing is close enough to truth that it doesn't really matter, and NCAA ruled Jamar ineligible. 

[Dugout DickStone]

Yeah, nobody is claiming that Frank isn't a huge liar because he definitely is.

It seems like this "relationship" line from JC gets pointed to on here a lot as a tipping point, where from then on you don't believe a word he says about anything. Which I don't get. I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

The tipping point for me was "trash, floor, wait...it was the floortrash"

Also, the claim that the NCAA suspended Jamar first.

Don't really know why those bother you. The trash/floor thing is close enough to truth that it doesn't really matter, and NCAA ruled Jamar ineligible. 

"close enough to the truth"?  I bet the real truth is someone from the AD or related to someone from the AD scooped that thing up. 

Can you shoot me a link to the NCAA ruling?  Or at least the NCAA statement on it?

[fr@ck me]

Yeah, nobody is claiming that Frank isn't a huge liar because he definitely is.

It seems like this "relationship" line from JC gets pointed to on here a lot as a tipping point, where from then on you don't believe a word he says about anything. Which I don't get. I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

The tipping point for me was "trash, floor, wait...it was the floortrash"

Also, the claim that the NCAA suspended Jamar first.

Don't really know why those bother you. The trash/floor thing is close enough to truth that it doesn't really matter, and NCAA ruled Jamar ineligible. 

"close enough to the truth"?  I bet the real truth is someone from the AD or related to someone from the AD scooped that thing up. 

Can you shoot me a link to the NCAA ruling?  Or at least the NCAA statement on it?

My guess is Jamar pissed someone off at some point and they happened to see it and thought they would get him in trouble.  Or it was a KU fan.  either way I don't buy into the AD going all CIA on Jamar or anyone on the team.

[michigancat]

I'm sure this has been asked, but if Frank was going to truly burn down Bramlage with everyone in it, why did Currie try to give him a raise and extension mid season?

[Dugout DickStone]

Yeah, nobody is claiming that Frank isn't a huge liar because he definitely is.

It seems like this "relationship" line from JC gets pointed to on here a lot as a tipping point, where from then on you don't believe a word he says about anything. Which I don't get. I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

The tipping point for me was "trash, floor, wait...it was the floortrash"

Also, the claim that the NCAA suspended Jamar first.

Don't really know why those bother you. The trash/floor thing is close enough to truth that it doesn't really matter, and NCAA ruled Jamar ineligible. 

"close enough to the truth"?  I bet the real truth is someone from the AD or related to someone from the AD scooped that thing up. 

Can you shoot me a link to the NCAA ruling?  Or at least the NCAA statement on it?

My guess is Jamar pissed someone off at some point and they happened to see it and thought they would get him in trouble.  Or it was a KU fan.  either way I don't buy into the AD going all CIA on Jamar or anyone on the team.

I guess time (and KORA requests) will tell.

[Dr Rick Daris]

I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

This isn't as big a deal to me than others I don't think, but i'm not sure how you can take this stance. Either they had a great working relationship, or they lied.

they lied.  just like any non-dumbass would have in the exact same situation.  you don't go out and tell the public you had a strained working relationship with an employer/employee.  you both be men about it and verbally shake hands and move on.

Exactly. I honestly don't see how anyone would want either of them to handle it differently.

How about doing the true mature, responsible thing and not allowing their relationship to get to a point where Frank goes to South Carolina? The fact that Frank took this particular job says more about how both are immature dickheads  than any public statement possibly could.

 

if frank is someone we wanted to keep, then it's up to the AD to figure out how to make that happen. it's painfully obvious that currie never wanted to keep frank and i'm not even talking about receipt gate and everything that transpired after it. it goes all the way back to the curt kelly stuff and even before. why? i mean i have my ideas, but for the most part frank was the talent and it was up to currie to keep him happy and he massively failed and it seems like he did it on purpose.

[Dugout DickStone]

I'm sure this has been asked, but if Frank was going to truly burn down Bramlage with everyone in it, why did Currie try to give him a raise and extension mid season?

That talking point has been abandoned and replaced with "Frank was committing so many NCAA violations it was a huge problem, he had to let him go!  The NCAA may still be dropping sanctions on us, we can just hope and pray."

Meanwhile, if an enterprising journalist were to approach the NCAA and ask them if they were actively investigating KSU I would bet their respone would be "who, the Western Union guys?  LOL, no."

[Dr Rick Daris]

I'm sure this has been asked, but if Frank was going to truly burn down Bramlage with everyone in it, why did Currie try to give him a raise and extension mid season?

he said it because it sounded good. it was a lie.

[Rams]

Why does everyone keep acting like one party has the ability to save a relationship regardless of the mindset of the other party?  I mean if your wife was cheating on you constantly and kept getting into legal trouble and you tried to reason with her rationally and she just spit in your face and told you eff off and ultimately left you, should we blame you for the failed marriage?  I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but we also don't know for sure that it didn't happen that way.  We have no idea what Frank's mindset was. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

Why does everyone keep acting like one party has the ability to save a relationship regardless of the mindset of the other party?  I mean if your wife was cheating on you constantly and kept getting into legal trouble and you tried to reason with her rationally and she just spit in your face and told you eff off and ultimately left you, should we blame you for the failed marriage?  I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but we also don't know for sure that it didn't happen that way.  We have no idea what Frank's mindset was. 

did you really just compare the relationship of an athletic director making six figures at a major college and a coach at that school making millions to that of a husband and wife. my god just shut up.

[Dugout DickStone]

Why does everyone keep acting like one party has the ability to save a relationship regardless of the mindset of the other party?  I mean if your wife was cheating on you constantly and kept getting into legal trouble and you tried to reason with her rationally and she just spit in your face and told you eff off and ultimately left you, should we blame you for the failed marriage?  I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but we also don't know for sure that it didn't happen that way.  We have no idea what Frank's mindset was. 

We are acting like both parties have the impetus to save the relationship, but that one had more ability and responsibility to save it, especially for the sake of the kids (us).

I hate our new step dad and mom looks like a bitch too.

[michigancat]

Why does everyone keep acting like one party has the ability to save a relationship regardless of the mindset of the other party?  I mean if your wife was cheating on you constantly and kept getting into legal trouble and you tried to reason with her rationally and she just spit in your face and told you eff off and ultimately left you, should we blame you for the failed marriage?  I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but we also don't know for sure that it didn't happen that way.  We have no idea what Frank's mindset was. 

I'm pretty sure I've consistently blamed both you dipshit.

[Trim]

Cap,

Yes, we understand why John Currie didn't admit that he's always hated that mexican.

However, when you stand on a platform of transparency and honesty, don't expect that not to be thrown in your face when you tell a blatant (white) lie and also make statements that are (admitted by proxy) "close enough to the truth."

Also, rather than argue semantics with you on the above, I'd rather just pay you whatever your hourly rate is for the next 5 minutes so that you can acknowledge the points.  I will WU the money to you.

-Trim

[EllToPay]

I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

This isn't as big a deal to me than others I don't think, but i'm not sure how you can take this stance. Either they had a great working relationship, or they lied.

they lied.  just like any non-dumbass would have in the exact same situation.  you don't go out and tell the public you had a strained working relationship with an employer/employee.  you both be men about it and verbally shake hands and move on.

Exactly. I honestly don't see how anyone would want either of them to handle it differently.

How about doing the true mature, responsible thing and not allowing their relationship to get to a point where Frank goes to South Carolina? The fact that Frank took this particular job says more about how both are immature dickheads  than any public statement possibly could.

YES! DAMN HUMAN NATURE!

[Dugout DickStone]

Cap,

Yes, we understand why John Currie didn't admit that he's always hated that mexican.

However, when you stand on a platform of transparency and honesty, don't expect that not to be thrown in your face when you tell a blatant (white) lie and also make statements that are (admitted by proxy) "close enough to the truth."

Also, rather than argue semantics with you on the above, I'd rather just pay you whatever your hourly rate is for the next 5 minutes so that you can acknowledge the points.  I will WU the money to you.

-Trim

PS.  Give us the Western Union receipt instead of pretending it is protected by FERPA or a privilege under KORA.  John Currie has already disclosed the names on it, the amount and its existence.  The privilege has been destroyed.

[wabash909]

Why does everyone keep acting like one party has the ability to save a relationship regardless of the mindset of the other party?  I mean if your wife was cheating on you constantly and kept getting into legal trouble and you tried to reason with her rationally and she just spit in your face and told you eff off and ultimately left you, should we blame you for the failed marriage?  I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but we also don't know for sure that it didn't happen that way.  We have no idea what Frank's mindset was. 

The mindset is, Frank has a big ego (like virtually every top performing coach at the BCS level) and wanted a meddling prick 10 years his junior, with a strong armed compliance department to stay out of the way of his basketball program.

It's Currie's job to keep him happy and to stay out of the way.  That's how this marriage works.  Plain and simple.


 

[captaincrap]

Cap,

Yes, we understand why John Currie didn't admit that he's always hated that mexican.

However, when you stand on a platform of transparency and honesty, don't expect that not to be thrown in your face when you tell a blatant (white) lie and also make statements that are (admitted by proxy) "close enough to the truth."

Also, rather than argue semantics with you on the above, I'd rather just pay you whatever your hourly rate is for the next 5 minutes so that you can acknowledge the points.  I will WU the money to you.

-Trim

He pledged transparency in financial and contractual matters. Don't know why you are applying that standard to every word the man says on any topic.

[Thecatwhisperer]

I'm sure this has been asked, but if Frank was going to truly burn down Bramlage with everyone in it, why did Currie try to give him a raise and extension mid season?

he said it because it sounded good. it was a lie.

From what we think we know and if you believe CC's responses, it's entirely possible at the time the raise/extension were offered some of these issues may not have been known for certain. When Martin began to signal that he didn't want to lock himself into a new contract yet things obviously changed.  More things came to light and the hammer was dropped on Jamar.  I'm coming to the opinion that it is probably in the best interest of our basketball program for people to not keep trying to dig to the bottom of why Martin left. That's not going to be satisfying because it leaves the door open to interpretation. Currie is obviously protecting the school and his reputation but that's his job and he's choosing to do it in a way that can be perceived as for his own best interests.  I liked Martin when he was winning and loved his ability to attract media attention and his interviews/record were something we could point to with pride. He did an incredible job of representing our school in public and bringing getting us national attention.

Our current administration is taking the approach that they are not going to participate in the game that we know is played across the country by almost all highly successful teams in finding ways to funnel money to get highly rated recruits.  It's disheartening to know that we are up against this especially after watching Kentucky bring home a championship knowing it is going to be a fact of life going forward. We will have to try all the more harder to attract players here who fit the mold of what our administration/coach are after.  Does this potentially rule out ever being able to compete at the highest level? It may and we're going to find out soon enough, but there are still players and families that do not want to participate in the grey area of college athletics and I think oscar knows this and has the ability to attract those players.  We're already seeing this in some of the offers going out and interest from possible transfers.  I'm already behind oscar.  If Currie wants to take the hard line stance that we are not going to break any rules under his watch, then he needs to figure out how to get as close to the line as he can without going over it.  There are a lot of loop holes in the tax code that allow people/corporations to avoid paying tax and it is completely legal.  If some how we are able to do this successfully knowing that our administration/coach did it all above board, that will be something we can point to with pride.  If we are not able to compete and have to listen to the squawks pound their chest year in and year out while not getting caught we are all in for a very frustrating and maddening ride the next few years. 

[Rams]

did you really just compare the relationship of an athletic director making six figures at a major college and a coach at that school making millions to that of a husband and wife. my god just shut up.

Both are relationships that require each party to put forth an effort for it to work.  Sorry if you can't see the obvious similarities.

one had more ability and responsibility to save it

I agree that Currie had more of a responsibility to save the relationship, but maybe he did everything he possibly could and it wasn't good enough for Frank.  Maybe he demanded that Currie look the other way while he violated multiple NCAA rules that would've ultimately resulted in massive sanctions.  Sounds to me like that's what CC is hinting at.

I'm pretty sure I've consistently blamed both you dipshit.

While simultaneously not knowing how much Currie actually tried to do to save the relationship.

[captaincrap]

Yeah, nobody is claiming that Frank isn't a huge liar because he definitely is.

It seems like this "relationship" line from JC gets pointed to on here a lot as a tipping point, where from then on you don't believe a word he says about anything. Which I don't get. I don't think either of them "lied" on this particular point, but whatever.

The tipping point for me was "trash, floor, wait...it was the floortrash"

Also, the claim that the NCAA suspended Jamar first.

Don't really know why those bother you. The trash/floor thing is close enough to truth that it doesn't really matter, and NCAA ruled Jamar ineligible. 

"close enough to the truth"?  I bet the real truth is someone from the AD or related to someone from the AD scooped that thing up. 

Can you shoot me a link to the NCAA ruling?  Or at least the NCAA statement on it?

He can't get into a lot of the details regarding the receipt because of many factors. Him trying to give info there is what made him look bad. He danced about as close as he could, and really the details are not relevant. It wasn't a conspiracy. Jamar screwed up. NCAA ruled him out. Timing sucked. Honestly, if it wasn't the last game of the year for a senior this whole thing doesn't get nearly as much run.

Doubt the interp from NCAA is online, haven't looked. NCAA prez confirmed it that weekend on CBS. It really isn't up for debate, they ruled him out. We tried to appeal, it was denied.

[Trim]

Cap,

Yes, we understand why John Currie didn't admit that he's always hated that mexican.

However, when you stand on a platform of transparency and honesty, don't expect that not to be thrown in your face when you tell a blatant (white) lie and also make statements that are (admitted by proxy) "close enough to the truth."

Also, rather than argue semantics with you on the above, I'd rather just pay you whatever your hourly rate is for the next 5 minutes so that you can acknowledge the points.  I will WU the money to you.

-Trim

He pledged transparency in financial and contractual matters. Don't know why you are applying that standard to every word the man says on any topic.

I'm familiar with the "K-State Pledge."  I can read. 

http://kstatesports.cstv.com/school-bio/kstate-pledge.html

http://kstatesports.cstv.com/school-bio/mission-statement.html

In addition to that bullshit, he preaches about transparency many times, and not just in regards to "financial and contractual matters."  I can see and hear too.

Whatever.  It's fine.  Transparency = making PDFs of boilerplate contracts and 1-page zero'd out financial statements available.

I'm good at reading people, and Currie - depending on your perspective - is a liar or someone who simply thinks very little of his audience's intelligence (which as I've acknowledge before, when it comes to a lot of the KSTATEO fanbase, isn't a bad tactic but it doesn't work here).

[captaincrap]

Cap,

Yes, we understand why John Currie didn't admit that he's always hated that mexican.

However, when you stand on a platform of transparency and honesty, don't expect that not to be thrown in your face when you tell a blatant (white) lie and also make statements that are (admitted by proxy) "close enough to the truth."

Also, rather than argue semantics with you on the above, I'd rather just pay you whatever your hourly rate is for the next 5 minutes so that you can acknowledge the points.  I will WU the money to you.

-Trim

He pledged transparency in financial and contractual matters. Don't know why you are applying that standard to every word the man says on any topic.

I'm familiar with the "K-State Pledge."  I can read. 

http://kstatesports.cstv.com/school-bio/kstate-pledge.html

http://kstatesports.cstv.com/school-bio/mission-statement.html

In addition to that bullshit, he preaches about transparency many times, and not just in regards to "financial and contractual matters."  I can see and hear too.

Whatever.  It's fine.  Transparency = making PDFs of boilerplate contracts and 1-page zero'd out financial statements available.

I'm good at reading people, and Currie - depending on your perspective - is a liar or someone who simply thinks very little of his audience's intelligence (which as I've acknowledge before, when it comes to a lot of the KSTATEO fanbase, isn't a bad tactic but it doesn't work here).

You are certainly welcome to your opinion

[Trim]

You are certainly welcome to your opinion

LOL, thanks.

[mcmwcat]

Why does everyone keep acting like one party has the ability to save a relationship regardless of the mindset of the other party?  I mean if your wife was cheating on you constantly and kept getting into legal trouble and you tried to reason with her rationally and she just spit in your face and told you eff off and ultimately left you, should we blame you for the failed marriage?  I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but we also don't know for sure that it didn't happen that way.  We have no idea what Frank's mindset was. 

I'm pretty sure I've consistently blamed both you dipshit.

heh.  you were the only one attacking Martin for throwing Currie under the bus in the Syracuse post game presser.

[steve dave]

man, that has to feel great trim