Hiring Process Discussion with CC

[LickNeckey]

The root of my frustration is simple I believe JC doesn't care about K-State.

I think JC cares about his resume and career aspirations.

Up to this point our aspirations aligned conveniently.  With the benefit of succesful programs coupled generous donors good things have happened.

However I think the situation surrounding MBB illustrates the gulf between the interests of JC and EMAW. 

1. You have a wildly popular coach heading one of your key programs.  Keep him happy work to resolve issues.

2. If the situation is completely unfixable then have a contingency plan that is sensible.  Meeding to run out of town to pour over charts only to rush to hire a recently fired re-tread (i mean was a midnight contract and rushed press conference necessary to land/present Weber?  Did he really believe CoC was gonna sweep in and steal him?) sure makes it look like you got caught with your pants down.  I mean if the Frank situation was so terrible how are you not prepared.

3. Why the need for a coach with D1 experience?  Because you need a hire and success to round up the resume.  The charts indicate that BW can win with others talent in the short term.  By the time the wheels fall off he can be wherever it is he would rather be.

4. Most disconcerting is that I have never has had faith in KSU.  My biggest issue with the hiring process is you can't sell what you don't believe in.  You can go to Scott City and sell KSU but can you to outsiders?  I mean Weber didn't even sound convinced. So how is oscar gonna sell it to recruits when he doesn't believe.  Say what you will about Gottlieb but this would not have been an issue.

[DQ12]

I'm sorry, CC, but you couldn't be more condescending in this thread.  To act as if the avenue for change is through email is utterly patronizing.  To act as if decisions are or will be made because I can press "send" is insulting.  This isn't about Frank Martin, this isn't about a TV analyst, this isn't - necessarily - about oscar Weber.  From the moment that the Administration brought in Bob Huggins, the KSU fan base laid it on the f'ing line for KSU.  I'm sorry if this sounds a bit overly important, but once it appeared that there was a commitment to WINNING, regardless of the perception or how straight a tie was, we did everything a fan base could.  We filled up that rough ridin' place, we took part in branding that rough ridin' place the OOD, we supported a goddamn assistant who hadn't done sh*t his entire life because we recognized that this was OUR RISK.  OURS.  Frank's failure was ours.  But we were fine with that because at least the Administration was taking a risk to be excellent.   I'm furious becuase we laid it on the line for KSU and Currie didn't.  He simply didn't.  We gave, Currie took.

Well said, 'zacker.

[unleashthemob]

basically yea, BW was shoved down our throats, and now were suppose to roll over and take up the Popper like good little tucks, eff that, I am sick at seeing us settle, I am sick of watching ku play for championships....Currie used what bill, huggs, and Martin did to get donations, and now he can shove bubbles up our ass and walk away saying " look at what I did " eff him...I stand with those who want this eff gone, I want him to be exposed for who he really works for...I hope we make life hell for him and all his limp wristed eff puppets.

[pissclams]

I'm sorry, CC, but you couldn't be more condescending in this thread.  To act as if the avenue for change is through email is utterly patronizing.  To act as if decisions are or will be made because I can press "send" is insulting.  This isn't about Frank Martin, this isn't about a TV analyst, this isn't - necessarily - about oscar Weber.  From the moment that the Administration brought in Bob Huggins, the KSU fan base laid it on the f'ing line for KSU.  I'm sorry if this sounds a bit overly important, but once it appeared that there was a commitment to WINNING, regardless of the perception or how straight a tie was, we did everything a fan base could.  We filled up that rough ridin' place, we took part in branding that rough ridin' place the OOD, we supported a goddamn assistant who hadn't done sh*t his entire life because we recognized that this was OUR RISK.  OURS.  Frank's failure was ours.  But we were fine with that because at least the Administration was taking a risk to be excellent.   I'm furious becuase we laid it on the line for KSU and Currie didn't.  He simply didn't.  We gave, Currie took. 

ya this one just went ballpark. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

I'm sorry, CC, but you couldn't be more condescending in this thread.  To act as if the avenue for change is through email is utterly patronizing.  To act as if decisions are or will be made because I can press "send" is insulting.  This isn't about Frank Martin, this isn't about a TV analyst, this isn't - necessarily - about oscar Weber.  From the moment that the Administration brought in Bob Huggins, the KSU fan base laid it on the f'ing line for KSU.  I'm sorry if this sounds a bit overly important, but once it appeared that there was a commitment to WINNING, regardless of the perception or how straight a tie was, we did everything a fan base could.  We filled up that rough ridin' place, we took part in branding that rough ridin' place the OOD, we supported a goddamn assistant who hadn't done sh*t his entire life because we recognized that this was OUR RISK.  OURS.  Frank's failure was ours.  But we were fine with that because at least the Administration was taking a risk to be excellent.   I'm furious becuase we laid it on the line for KSU and Currie didn't.  He simply didn't.  We gave, Currie took. 

ya this one just went ballpark.

yeah.

[kougar24]

I'm sorry, CC, but you couldn't be more condescending in this thread.  To act as if the avenue for change is through email is utterly patronizing.  To act as if decisions are or will be made because I can press "send" is insulting.  This isn't about Frank Martin, this isn't about a TV analyst, this isn't - necessarily - about oscar Weber.  From the moment that the Administration brought in Bob Huggins, the KSU fan base laid it on the f'ing line for KSU.  I'm sorry if this sounds a bit overly important, but once it appeared that there was a commitment to WINNING, regardless of the perception or how straight a tie was, we did everything a fan base could.  We filled up that rough ridin' place, we took part in branding that rough ridin' place the OOD, we supported a goddamn assistant who hadn't done sh*t his entire life because we recognized that this was OUR RISK.  OURS.  Frank's failure was ours.  But we were fine with that because at least the Administration was taking a risk to be excellent.   I'm furious becuase we laid it on the line for KSU and Currie didn't.  He simply didn't.  We gave, Currie took. 

ya this one just went ballpark.

yeah.

Yep

[LickNeckey]

My last post was long winded and probably unreadable (however quite therapeutic).

Two questions?

1. Do you believe JC has KSU's best interest at heart?

2. Do you believe his hire reflects this?

[KSUBrian]

 Don't go don't give is the WORST thing KSU fans can do to protest this hire. It only hurts KSU in the long run and would prolong the downturn if Weber flops. Give the AD/Weber all the bullets in their guns in the form of financial and attendance support,  and then if he fails, everbody from the outside will be able to see that it was the coach and not the university/program that was the problem.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Don't go don't give is the WORST thing KSU fans can do to protest this hire. It only hurts KSU in the long run and would prolong the downturn if Weber flops. Give the AD/Weber all the bullets in their guns in the form of financial and attendance support,  and then if he fails, everbody from the outside will be able to see that it was the coach and not the university/program that was the problem.

don't get behind the wheel again tonight brian.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Snyder is building that expansion.

...That said, to think that the West Side expansion would have happened without Currie is just ludicrous.  Heck, we won't even get into the Basketball Training Facility.

I reject this completely.  We did build in Snyder v.1.  We built the current press box, in '93, which was a respectable structure for a program that was in its infancy.  We put up the the north jumbotron which was state of the art for its time.  We expanded seating to its current capacity.

It was time for an upgrade, no doubt, but let's not pretend like without Currie we'd still be stuck with what we had in '89.

We are pulling in donations that absolutely dwarf what we were doing back then. KU had more success than we have with Mangino and they still have a track around their field. I'm as upset with Currie as the next guy, but let's not pretend like anybody could have gotten the stadium expansion in the same timeframe Currie did, especially after only one good football season.

[Barry McCockner]

Staff is going to come together quickly this week, and some good names will be on there.

I call bullshit here.  During the 810 interview he said something to the effect that (aside from Lowrey), "in a couple of days I'll start thinking about assistants and make some calls".  It won't be quick, and there will be no good names.

I also call bulshit on how many people he interviewed.  If you follow the timeline, it's clear that didn't happen.  By his own admission, once he was tipped off by Keady he looked into Weber and never looked back.  If he were honest, I'm sure he had Weber in mind all along.  When asked about interviews he said he "reached out to" an in another session said he "contacted" several other coaches, but has never once said (to my knowledge) that he interviewed anyone.  Even if he did, I wouldn't believe him.  He's got his minions editing PC transcripts and crap like that now, you can't believe anything he says.  He's as dirty as any coach or AD, but instead of rough ridin' the NCAA, he's rough ridin' us.

[bruce]

So why not just have Currie deal with the books and fundraising while someone with some managent sense works with the coaches?

[Rage Against the McKee]

So why not just have Currie deal with the books and fundraising while someone with some managent sense works with the coaches?

I would be fine with that but I really don't think Currie would accept that. How is he supposed to climb the career ladder when we won't trust him to hire a coach?

[ChiComCat]

Just saw this thread now.  Thanks for sharing CC.  I disagree with the hire because I feel like KSU is a tough sell.  I think we need to take a risk in order to be great, and we need a coach with great intensity and energy to sell Manhattan, KS.  IMO, Weber is a terrible fit for both of those.  I do think there would of been a difference in response if Currie would've called Gottlieb, but as much as it pains me, Currie thinks he made a good hire.  Its like politics between us and Currie, both sides are better off if the recognize both sides are trying to do whats best, but have different ways of going about it.  I do support anyone who wants to protest and put up a billboard, not destruction.  I do not support hiring a fired coach.  It shows K-State as second class.  The articles that say it was good hire demonstrate that we are second class, and we proved them right.  Currie needs to present us as first class and demonstrate that we are above other programs, or at least on par with them.  That's his job.  Currie's job is to involve us and appease us to a point, but it is not our job to write polite letters to him to initiate this.  He needs to reach out to the fanbase right now as he has yet to show any interest in doing so.  That is HIS job.  We, directly or indirectly, are paying for it

[joda]

I'm sorry, CC, but you couldn't be more condescending in this thread.  To act as if the avenue for change is through email is utterly patronizing.  To act as if decisions are or will be made because I can press "send" is insulting.  This isn't about Frank Martin, this isn't about a TV analyst, this isn't - necessarily - about oscar Weber.  From the moment that the Administration brought in Bob Huggins, the KSU fan base laid it on the f'ing line for KSU.  I'm sorry if this sounds a bit overly important, but once it appeared that there was a commitment to WINNING, regardless of the perception or how straight a tie was, we did everything a fan base could.  We filled up that rough ridin' place, we took part in branding that rough ridin' place the OOD, we supported a goddamn assistant who hadn't done sh*t his entire life because we recognized that this was OUR RISK.  OURS.  Frank's failure was ours.  But we were fine with that because at least the Administration was taking a risk to be excellent.   I'm furious becuase we laid it on the line for KSU and Currie didn't.  He simply didn't.  We gave, Currie took. 

ya this one just went ballpark.

yeah.

Yep

Completely agree, KState fans had been sitting back, barely able to enjoy college basketball (even though for many of us it is probably our favorite sport) for most of our lives. Those of us who actually went to school at KState during the Asbury and/or Wolly years where forced to watch bad teams and bad players play bad basketball. Many of us went to those games simply because our love for the sport and our hope that we may see an occasional upset. When Huggins was hired it was as if we where being awakened from a really bad dream. Our administration that for so long had ignored basketball had rolled the dice on a coach that could not only make us better, but could make us winners. KState fans ate it up. Even when Huggins left us we saw that the school was still willing to take chances to win when they hired an unproven assistant in the hopes that he kept together the GRCOAT. I was no longer in school at that point and was living too far away to make more than 1 game that year, but in that one meaningless game I saw more excitement from our fans than I saw in any game the entire time I was at KState (other than KU games). We had finally been given the chance to watch tough, physical, and ,most importantly, winning basketball and we loved it and wanted more. Many of us where angry when Frank left. He had personified us and we didn't have faith in our administration to find a replacement of that. It turns out our lack of faith was justified. Even though someone like Gottlieb or Antigua may have backfired (there's very few "sure thing" coaches out there and none where coming here) but they would have shown US that the school was still willing to take that chance to be great. Who knows, oscar Weber could turn out to be great. There's no reason to expect it, but stranger things have happened. However, for those of us who sat through the Wooly and Asbury era's we see way to many similarities and that's not ok.

I know I basically just said the same thing zacker did, but after stewing about this all day at work I needed to write down my own words.

[The Whale]

So John Currie's process yielded oscar Weber -- a result that not even CC is all that excited about.

How are we supposed to feel about what's likely to be the next major task on Currie's plate - finding a replacement for LHC Bill Snyder?

[michigancat]

Who knows, oscar Weber could turn out to be great. There's no reason to expect it, but stranger things have happened.

What stranger things have happened?

[KSUBrian]

Don't go don't give is the WORST thing KSU fans can do to protest this hire. It only hurts KSU in the long run and would prolong the downturn if Weber flops. Give the AD/Weber all the bullets in their guns in the form of financial and attendance support,  and then if he fails, everbody from the outside will be able to see that it was the coach and not the university/program that was the problem.

don't get behind the wheel again tonight brian.

Don't heckle me or I won't post my ITK info.

[FranklyFrankYou]

Who knows, oscar Weber could turn out to be great. There's no reason to expect it, but stranger things have happened.

What stranger things have happened?

That's a great question.

What I was wondering if the student government couldn't hold an open interview session with schulz and currie.  I mean, this is not backed by any knowledge of SGA power(altho I doubt it is much) but could they not call Currie to the carpet in front of an angry mob of students?

[Barry McCockner]

Who knows, oscar Weber could turn out to be great. There's no reason to expect it, but stranger things have happened.

What stranger things have happened?

That whole Area 51 thing...that was real, right?

[Cire]

 Cc we just hired turner gill, quit trying to defend it.  We are not changing our minds and currie will be gone within two years.

[joda]

Who knows, oscar Weber could turn out to be great. There's no reason to expect it, but stranger things have happened.

What stranger things have happened?

A high major school coming off 3 straight NCAA appearances hiring a coach who had just been fired from another high major school. And a high major coach leaving a school that had made 3 straight tournaments for another high major school that hadn't made an appearance in 8 years

[ednksu]

Cc we just hired turner gill, quit trying to defend it.  We are not changing our minds and currie will be gone within two years.

I would argue that TG was not a known commodity.  We have a fairly good track record of what we just got with BW.

[wabash909]

Currie didn't chase off Frank. He did that himself. I would argue Currie was placed in a no win situation with Frank -- would have been actually a tougher PR spot if Frank had stayed because of what would have happened. So if you're blaming Currie for that one, you are misled.

Right.

I can only imagine the public relations nightmare Currie would have had on his hands had Frank Martin remained our coach.

I just love these vague statements after the fact.

Sorry, best I can do here without getting in major hot water. Hopefully can give better detail down the road.

We all know the speculation of the player mass exodus/mutiny, whatever.

Frank is a bitch to play for.  He's demanding.  At the end of the day, a couple kids that couldn't cut would have transferred.

But, let's not pretend that the PR nightmare on Currie's hands due to Frank remaining coach and some off seasons transfers comes any where close to the same galaxy of the negative PR he has brought upon himself and the school due to his handling of Jamar, then Frank, and the ensuing hire of oscar Weber. 

[Rams]

CC, don't act like Currie didn't bring this reaction on himself.  I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the Jamar situation.  I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that the struggles with Martin were more Martin than Currie.  I was willing to believe that Martin wanted out no matter what and there was nothing Currie could do about it.  But that first PC coupled with the FOIA denials were more than I could take.  If you're gonna get up there and field questions at least have your lies straight. "We found it on the...uh...on the floor...er in the...in the trash...yeah it was in the trash."  Are you rough ridin' kidding me!?  How can you not be ready for that question?  I don't even care he lies to me, just don't make it so obvious.  He might as well have just said "You're all so rough ridin' stupid and inconsequential that I don't even have to come up with a good story.  Here...it was on the floor.  NO WAIT!  The trash...yeah...it was in the trash."

Then he hired a guy that just got fired.  A guy that was so far down on the acceptable list of hires that goEMAW wasn't even scared of him.  I hate that you marginalize this reaction by pretending like it's about Gottlieb.  It's not about Gottlieb at all.  It's about anybody but BW.  Hell, we were all scared of Underwood, but there's not a person on here that wouldn't take Underwood over BW.

So he spit in our face and then shoved a turd sandwich down our throats.

Maybe BW will turn out to be a good coach.   Maybe IU was a shitty situation and a bad fit.  Maybe he's perfect for K-State.  I don't see it, but I've been wrong before. I, for one, am willing to give him that chance. But I won't settle for a SLTH.  I won't settle for mediocrity.  For me, Martin's success represents the bottom of what I'm willing to accept.  He proved it could be done at KSU and I won't settle for anything less, and I hope nobody else does either. But no matter how much success BW has, it won't excuse the way Currie handled the Jamar/Frank situation and how he's treated the fans like we're just stepping stones on his path to a better job.  That needs to change now.