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TM's family has a better case in the civil suit because of GZ getting out of the vehicle and following TM. GZ was specifically told not to do that and did so anway, an action that was the catalyst for this whole situation. With the lower burden that fact helps largely in getting to 51%
Quote from: sys on July 08, 2013, 11:52:35 PMwas getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? I think it was. especially since they brought in his trainer to make fun of his fatness.
was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening?
Quote from: Limestone on July 10, 2013, 08:51:59 AMQuote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 10, 2013, 08:44:02 AMQuote from: MakeItRain on July 10, 2013, 02:45:41 AMQuote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 09, 2013, 03:18:46 PMDefense will rest tomorrow.Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.Why was this a sham?Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).What should they have done differently?
Quote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 10, 2013, 08:44:02 AMQuote from: MakeItRain on July 10, 2013, 02:45:41 AMQuote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 09, 2013, 03:18:46 PMDefense will rest tomorrow.Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.Why was this a sham?Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
Quote from: MakeItRain on July 10, 2013, 02:45:41 AMQuote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 09, 2013, 03:18:46 PMDefense will rest tomorrow.Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.Why was this a sham?Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.
Quote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 09, 2013, 03:18:46 PMDefense will rest tomorrow.Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Defense will rest tomorrow.
Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
In determining the facts, you may draw reasonable inferences from the evidence. You may make deductions and reach conclusions which reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts shown by the evidence in this case. But you should not speculate on any matters outside the evidence.
You should use common sense in weighing the evidence and consider the evidence inlight of your own observations in life.In our lives, we often look at one fact and conclude from it that another fact exists. Inlaw we call this “inference.” A jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences. Any inferencesyou make must be reasonable and must be based on the evidence in the case.
Quote from: EllRobersonisInnocent on July 10, 2013, 09:21:03 AMYea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing I don't know what the final jury instructions will end up being in this case, but here are a couple examples of common introductory instructions.QuoteIn determining the facts, you may draw reasonable inferences from the evidence. You may make deductions and reach conclusions which reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts shown by the evidence in this case. But you should not speculate on any matters outside the evidence.QuoteYou should use common sense in weighing the evidence and consider the evidence inlight of your own observations in life.In our lives, we often look at one fact and conclude from it that another fact exists. Inlaw we call this “inference.” A jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences. Any inferencesyou make must be reasonable and must be based on the evidence in the case.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning. They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.
Quote from: GCJayhawker on July 10, 2013, 09:15:12 AMI'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.Yeah, it would be amazing.
I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
GZ is pretty lucky Trim doesn't work for the state of Florida.
Quote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 10, 2013, 09:03:27 AMQuote from: Limestone on July 10, 2013, 08:51:59 AMThey will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).What should they have done differently?Let me review the entire transcript when I have free time and get back to you.
Quote from: Limestone on July 10, 2013, 08:51:59 AMThey will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).What should they have done differently?
They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
Instructions like these are very common, and some form of them will almost certainly be used here. We expect jurors to weigh the evidence presented and use common sense. Not sure why you think this necessarily helps the state's case.
Quote from: AbeFroman on July 10, 2013, 09:44:01 AMGZ is pretty lucky Trim doesn't work for the state of Florida.He's licensed there, I think.
Florida authorities have a message as the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial looms: raise your voice, not your hands.Anticipating that the outcome of the very public, and racially-tinged, case is likely to disappoint one swath of the population or another, law enforcement agencies have set up a response plan.Part of it is a public service announcement that the Broward County Sheriff's Office released this week. In it, a black teenage boy and a Hispanic girl urge viewers to "stand together as one. No cuffs, no guns."Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who is on trial for last year's shooting death of Trayvon Martin, a black teen, in Sanford city. Sanford is in Seminole County.Millions of Americans have already made up their minds about what should happen. And no matter how the verdict falls, authorities worry passions will be inflamed. That's where the video comes in -- a plea not to resort to violence."Freedom of expression is a constitutional right," the sheriff's office said. "While raising your voice is encouraged, using your hands is not."In the video, the boy says, "Let's give violence a rest, because we can easily end up arrested." The girl adds, "Let it roll off your shoulders. It's water off your back, don't lack composure. Because in one instant it could be over."
QuoteFlorida authorities have a message as the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial looms: raise your voice, not your hands.Anticipating that the outcome of the very public, and racially-tinged, case is likely to disappoint one swath of the population or another, law enforcement agencies have set up a response plan.Part of it is a public service announcement that the Broward County Sheriff's Office released this week. In it, a black teenage boy and a Hispanic girl urge viewers to "stand together as one. No cuffs, no guns."Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who is on trial for last year's shooting death of Trayvon Martin, a black teen, in Sanford city. Sanford is in Seminole County.Millions of Americans have already made up their minds about what should happen. And no matter how the verdict falls, authorities worry passions will be inflamed. That's where the video comes in -- a plea not to resort to violence."Freedom of expression is a constitutional right," the sheriff's office said. "While raising your voice is encouraged, using your hands is not."In the video, the boy says, "Let's give violence a rest, because we can easily end up arrested." The girl adds, "Let it roll off your shoulders. It's water off your back, don't lack composure. Because in one instant it could be over."I like how PSAs treat people like kindergartners.
Quote from: Limestone on July 10, 2013, 09:22:58 AMQuote from: K-S-U-Wildcats! on July 10, 2013, 09:03:27 AMQuote from: Limestone on July 10, 2013, 08:51:59 AMThey will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).What should they have done differently?Let me review the entire transcript when I have free time and get back to you.Only if you have time. Otherwise, let's just assume the prosecutors are idiots.
Quote from: EllRobersonisInnocent on July 10, 2013, 09:21:03 AMYea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazingThe actual evidence shows that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly in hunting down an unarmed civilian and killing him.edit - in celebration of #7000: