Frank watch 2012:

[ChiComCat]

You can't just say "well the athletic dept made $20M so give Frank more"...at some point you draw a line and to draw that line you have to look at alternatives.  Frank is clearly a good coach, is he $2M good?  I don't know the answer, but it needs to be asked.   Who else could we get if we start offering $2M per?  Again, I don't know the answer.  I love Frank, but I will admit this crap every year is already old and it likely doesn't stop anytime soon.  It surely can't help recruiting.  The Franking is also getting old.  If Sprads leaves, I will be very disappointed.  This is a kid who Frank loves and he clearly isn't "loved" in return...that's bothersome.  Does this baggage come with every coach expecting $2M per? 

The point to me is there is no guarantee on what $2 mil would bring to K-State, but it would seem to me that $2 mil would likely keep the guy we have. And that guy has already proven to be pretty darn good.

 
For the sake of comparison, what do you think 2M gets us on the open market if we go around trying to hire a coach.  Honestly, I don't think we get someone with similar accomplishments to Frank to come here for it.  Probably puts us at any mid-major outside of Shaka/Stevens.  A few high majors looking to move/start over (Frank Haith types). 

If Frank leaves, I bet Currie would go after oscar Weber.

[michigancat]

I'm convinced. Give him $2 million.

[Panjandrum]

in order to replace frank with a coach of similar ability, etc. what do you think we would have to pay and do you even think that we would be able to hire one away from their current school? because illinois just offered shaka 2.5 and got turned down. nebraska if offering really, really good money and is getting turned down left and right. this really doesn't seem that hard to me. if we're able to lure someone comparable away (strongly doubt we could) then we'll be paying much more than 1.55 average that frank will make over the lifetime of his current contract and if we can't then we're stuck hiring doc sadler 2.0 for 1.1. all that matters is what someone else thinks frank is worth and how much it would cost to replace him assuming you would even be able to. there is no situation that makes more sense then paying him more and trying to keep him.

This is Basic HR 101.  It's massively cheaper to maintain the talent you already have as compared to hiring someone from the outside.

We extend Frank to $2 million a year (just guessing), and we don't have to worry about buyouts or anything like that.

On the open market, to get someone decent to jump, you'll probably have to offer at least that much, and you may have to pay some sort of buyout on top of that.

If I'm a penny pincher like Currie, the best case scenario, easily, is keeping him right where he is.

[kso_FAN]

Also I think Frank playing the game this year is different than last year. Last year it was about possibly going home to a fairly attractive job. I get that.

This year I think it's much more about disrespect. The whole Jamar thing aside, I think now Frank (and Katz) sees the $1.3 mil for this year with incentives as a bit of a slap in the face. Move the bar to 5 straight 20 win seasons with finishes above .500 in conference play, 4 NCAAs with first round wins, and really good graduation numbers and now an incentive laden contract is a bit harder on the ego. It's about guaranteed money now, the type of money other "name coaches" demand. A strained relationship with Currie only magnifies that, but I'm sure a less incentive laden contract for a guy that now knows he is the face of K-State basketball would mend that enough for him to stay.

[Panjandrum]

You can't just say "well the athletic dept made $20M so give Frank more"...at some point you draw a line and to draw that line you have to look at alternatives.  Frank is clearly a good coach, is he $2M good?  I don't know the answer, but it needs to be asked.   Who else could we get if we start offering $2M per?  Again, I don't know the answer.  I love Frank, but I will admit this crap every year is already old and it likely doesn't stop anytime soon.  It surely can't help recruiting.  The Franking is also getting old.  If Sprads leaves, I will be very disappointed.  This is a kid who Frank loves and he clearly isn't "loved" in return...that's bothersome.  Does this baggage come with every coach expecting $2M per? 

The point to me is there is no guarantee on what $2 mil would bring to K-State, but it would seem to me that $2 mil would likely keep the guy we have. And that guy has already proven to be pretty darn good.

 
For the sake of comparison, what do you think 2M gets us on the open market if we go around trying to hire a coach.  Honestly, I don't think we get someone with similar accomplishments to Frank to come here for it.  Probably puts us at any mid-major outside of Shaka/Stevens.  A few high majors looking to move/start over (Frank Haith types). 

If Frank leaves, I bet Currie would go after oscar Weber.

I'd prefer we burn Bramlage to the ground before oscar Weber coaches there.

[Panjandrum]

Also I think Frank playing the game this year is different than last year. Last year it was about possibly going home to a fairly attractive job. I get that.

This year I think it's much more about disrespect. The whole Jamar thing aside, I think now Frank (and Katz) sees the $1.3 mil for this year with incentives as a bit of a slap in the face. Move the bar to 5 straight 20 win seasons with finishes above .500 in conference play, 4 NCAAs with first round wins, and really good graduation numbers and now an incentive laden contract is a bit harder on the ego. It's about guaranteed money now, the type of money other "name coaches" demand. A strained relationship with Currie only magnifies that, but I'm sure a less incentive laden contract for a guy that now knows he is the face of K-State basketball would mend that enough for him to stay.

As a fan, it's a slap in the face if they think we'd prefer they overpay some mid-major guy as opposed to the guy that's taken us to where we are today.

I mean some of the fans want that, but that's because they're stupid.  Currie seems like he listens and cares what stupid people think too much.

[ChiComCat]

You can't just say "well the athletic dept made $20M so give Frank more"...at some point you draw a line and to draw that line you have to look at alternatives.  Frank is clearly a good coach, is he $2M good?  I don't know the answer, but it needs to be asked.   Who else could we get if we start offering $2M per?  Again, I don't know the answer.  I love Frank, but I will admit this crap every year is already old and it likely doesn't stop anytime soon.  It surely can't help recruiting.  The Franking is also getting old.  If Sprads leaves, I will be very disappointed.  This is a kid who Frank loves and he clearly isn't "loved" in return...that's bothersome.  Does this baggage come with every coach expecting $2M per? 

The point to me is there is no guarantee on what $2 mil would bring to K-State, but it would seem to me that $2 mil would likely keep the guy we have. And that guy has already proven to be pretty darn good.

 
For the sake of comparison, what do you think 2M gets us on the open market if we go around trying to hire a coach.  Honestly, I don't think we get someone with similar accomplishments to Frank to come here for it.  Probably puts us at any mid-major outside of Shaka/Stevens.  A few high majors looking to move/start over (Frank Haith types). 

If Frank leaves, I bet Currie would go after oscar Weber.

I'd prefer we burn Bramlage to the ground before oscar Weber coaches there.

Me too, Panjandrum, me too.  But can't you just see Currie rough ridin' doing it

[Belvis Noland]

Frank should get a bump.  My issues are his value and his tactics in getting that bump. 

Frank should be paid like a Top-25 coach (which he is) and maybe a bit more because he brings some intangible exposure to the gig, I guess.  CBS guest host is a good example.  good face, personailty = exposure.  On the flip side, who gives a crap about exposure it doesn't positively impact recruiting - which it apparently hasn't.  He should be making 3rd/4th most money in Big XII, so let's bump to him to that. 

Dude's tactics are bush league.  Maybe it's his agent.  His actively floating his name around for crap jobs to negotiate his current contract is crap.  Contracts can be negotiated without undercutting your current program.  Shaka Smart is a good example.  Shaka turned down Illini amidst pending contract negotiations: "Shaka Smart said Thursday his decision to remain as Virginia Commonwealth's coach 'came down to the fact that I love it at VCU.'"  And he's a better coach than Frank Martin.   

Maybe Frank hates Currie and isn't negotiating.  Maybe he's looking for a new job.  Fine.  Be pissed at Currie.  But don't tarnish this program, this school, or this fanbase.  We've given him everything he has.  he was nobody before K-State and, if he leaves, I hope he's nobody after K-State.  I hope he burns to the ground.   

[kso_FAN]

Also I think Frank playing the game this year is different than last year. Last year it was about possibly going home to a fairly attractive job. I get that.

This year I think it's much more about disrespect. The whole Jamar thing aside, I think now Frank (and Katz) sees the $1.3 mil for this year with incentives as a bit of a slap in the face. Move the bar to 5 straight 20 win seasons with finishes above .500 in conference play, 4 NCAAs with first round wins, and really good graduation numbers and now an incentive laden contract is a bit harder on the ego. It's about guaranteed money now, the type of money other "name coaches" demand. A strained relationship with Currie only magnifies that, but I'm sure a less incentive laden contract for a guy that now knows he is the face of K-State basketball would mend that enough for him to stay.

As a fan, it's a slap in the face if they think we'd prefer they overpay some mid-major guy as opposed to the guy that's taken us to where we are today.

I mean some of the fans want that, but that's because they're stupid.  Currie seems like he listens and cares what stupid people think too much.

Honestly, I don't know if we completely know what Currie thinks or who he listens to completely. Yeah, he has his part in the strained relationship with Frank and I don't doubt that the relationship has sone issues, but A TON of the speculation is based on incomplete information IMHO.

[GoodForAnother]

can someone please leak to my boss that I am flirting with other employers

[CNS]

#PayFrank2.0M

[CNS]

can someone please leak to my boss that I am flirting with other employers

How many postseasons have to been to in the last half decade? 

[kso_FAN]

#PayFrank2.0M

I'm guessing Frank would be good with #payfrank1.8Mguaranteed.

[LickNeckey]

You know what sucks worse than Frank being pursued for job openings and Frankings?

Having a coach that nobody wants and not having D1 quality kids to run off.  Jesus Christ people.

Also it seems to me the people that expect unconditional loyalty from Frank are the same ones that wanted to run him off in January.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Frank should get a bump.  My issues are his value and his tactics in getting that bump. 

Frank should be paid like a Top-25 coach (which he is) and maybe a bit more because he brings some intangible exposure to the gig, I guess.  CBS guest host is a good example.  good face, personailty = exposure.  On the flip side, who gives a crap about exposure it doesn't positively impact recruiting - which it apparently hasn't.  He should be making 3rd/4th most money in Big XII, so let's bump to him to that. 

Dude's tactics are bush league.  Maybe it's his agent.  His actively floating his name around for crap jobs to negotiate his current contract is crap.  Contracts can be negotiated without undercutting your current program.  Shaka Smart is a good example.  Shaka turned down Illini amidst pending contract negotiations: "Shaka Smart said Thursday his decision to remain as Virginia Commonwealth's coach 'came down to the fact that I love it at VCU.'"  And he's a better coach than Frank Martin.   

Maybe Frank hates Currie and isn't negotiating.  Maybe he's looking for a new job.  Fine.  Be pissed at Currie.  But don't tarnish this program, this school, or this fanbase.  We've given him everything he has.  he was nobody before K-State and, if he leaves, I hope he's nobody after K-State.  I hope he burns to the ground.

1) i don't think his name is actively floating around to negotiate his current contract. i really think he might leave.
2) those last few sentences seem a little overly righteous if you ask me. he certainly wasn't a nobody when he got to kstate. you seem to think he owes you something. sad. i hope you really enjoyed that elite 8 run.

[Belvis Noland]

You know what sucks worse than Frank being pursued for job openings and Frankings?

Having a coach that nobody wants and not having D1 quality kids to run off.  Jesus Christ people.

Also it seems to me the people that expect unconditional loyalty from Frank are the same ones that wanted to run him off in January.

You know what is the best? 

Having a coach that wants to be K-State's coach even when other programs might want him.  jesus christ.   

[CNS]

You know what sucks worse than Frank being pursued for job openings and Frankings?

Having a coach that nobody wants and not having D1 quality kids to run off.  Jesus Christ people.

Also it seems to me the people that expect unconditional loyalty from Frank are the same ones that wanted to run him off in January.

You know what is the best? 

Having a coach that wants to be K-State's coach even when other programs might want him.  jesus christ.   

Fairly compensating a coach will increase the likelihood of that becoming the case.

[GoodForAnother]

can someone please leak to my boss that I am flirting with other employers

How many postseasons have to been to in the last half decade?

26

[pissclams]

this isn't an issue of frank shopping around b/c he wants a raise.  right or wrong, he's mad and wants to quit.

i think currie needs to start putting fingers into the dam, because it's about to break.

[ChiComCat]

You know what sucks worse than Frank being pursued for job openings and Frankings?

Having a coach that nobody wants and not having D1 quality kids to run off.  Jesus Christ people.

Also it seems to me the people that expect unconditional loyalty from Frank are the same ones that wanted to run him off in January.

You know what is the best? 

Having a coach that wants to be K-State's coach even when other programs might want him.  jesus christ.   

Sounds like you're on #TeamUnderwood then

[kso_FAN]

You know what is the best? 

Having a coach that wants to be K-State's coach even when other programs might want him.  jesus christ.   

Yeah, but how realistic is this?

I mean we once had a guy who was from just down the road and now has his number retired at K-State and he left at one of the first chances he had to get out of here.

[mcmwcat]

You know what sucks worse than Frank being pursued for job openings and Frankings?

Having a coach that nobody wants and not having D1 quality kids to run off.  Jesus Christ people.

Also it seems to me the people that expect unconditional loyalty from Frank are the same ones that wanted to run him off in January.

 

[Belvis Noland]

2) those last few sentences seem a little overly righteous if you ask me. he certainly wasn't a nobody when he got to kstate. you seem to think he owes you something. sad. i hope you really enjoyed that elite 8 run.

Frank Martin was absolutely, unequivocally nobody when he got to K-State. 

i don't think he owes me, personally, anything.  I think he owes this school and program a lot.  Whether he stays or leaves, whether he tells Currie to go eff himself, I think Martin owes the fans and the university respect.       

[Trim]

this is a kid who Frank loves

[Mikeyis4dcats]

startings of a good meltdown here...