Author Topic: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.  (Read 21219 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2012, 04:41:28 PM »
This article also implies that anyone that says Santorum is the only true republican and the party has not changed while Ron Paul is not a republican is wrong and doesn't know their history.  But like I said, I would like to read more into it before I base arguments off of one article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/2008platform.pdf

Ron Paul fits into some portions of the Republican Party Platform, but for the most part, he is not a republican.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #101 on: March 19, 2012, 04:42:41 PM »
I was mostly responding to you making the statement that Ron getting the nomination through an open convention would fly in the face of democracy.  What this article says is thats exactly how our government is set up.  People can bitch and moan all they want and all any one could respond with is: read the constitution bitch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What does the constitution say about the nomination process for the republican presidential candidate?
I don't know.  But I would imagine democrats are more democratic, while Republicans follow a republic styled philosophy more.  But I wasn't an English major so who knows how each party decided to name themselves.  Maybe it was opposites day and republicans believe in a democracy over a republic. :dunno:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It says absolutely nothing about the republican or democratic parties.

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #102 on: March 19, 2012, 05:11:04 PM »
So who gives a crap if Ron Paul getting the nominee isn't democratic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #103 on: March 19, 2012, 05:12:37 PM »
So who gives a crap if Ron Paul getting the nominee isn't democratic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The people who actually show up and vote at the primaries and caucuses do.

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #104 on: March 19, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »
This article also implies that anyone that says Santorum is the only true republican and the party has not changed while Ron Paul is not a republican is wrong and doesn't know their history.  But like I said, I would like to read more into it before I base arguments off of one article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/2008platform.pdf

Ron Paul fits into some portions of the Republican Party Platform, but for the most part, he is not a republican.
nice link.  I especially like the part where it specifies the 2008 platform.  Like it matters because the republican ideology hasn't changed right?  But anyway instead of making me read a book.  Why don't you explain to me why he isn't a republican. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline kstatefreak42

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2911
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2012, 05:20:57 PM »
Get inspired. Make a difference

EMAW

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2012, 05:28:57 PM »
So who gives a crap if Ron Paul getting the nominee isn't democratic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The people who actually show up and vote at the primaries and caucuses do.
at which point you tell them they are mistaken if they think we live in a democracy.  How the eff do you not get this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline kstatefreak42

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2911
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2012, 05:30:01 PM »
Paul has started something great.  I look for someone else to grab the torch.  South Carolina State Sen. Tom Davis is primed for big movement imo.
Its Rand Paul. He is the future.
EMAW

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2012, 09:21:32 PM »
This article also implies that anyone that says Santorum is the only true republican and the party has not changed while Ron Paul is not a republican is wrong and doesn't know their history.  But like I said, I would like to read more into it before I base arguments off of one article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/2008platform.pdf

Ron Paul fits into some portions of the Republican Party Platform, but for the most part, he is not a republican.
nice link.  I especially like the part where it specifies the 2008 platform.  Like it matters because the republican ideology hasn't changed right?  But anyway instead of making me read a book.  Why don't you explain to me why he isn't a republican. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The platform has not been updated since 2008. The 2012 platform will be finished for the RNC in Tampa, but as of today, that is the most current copy of the official Republican Party Platform. I can assure you that the new platform won't be much different. They are called "conservative" for a reason.

Ron Paul is not a republican because he does not share the views of the republican party regarding national defense, social security, medicare, medicaid, the war on drugs, foreign aid, Israel and the Middle East, trade policy, gay marriage, internet gambling, the environment, or anything else other than fiscal conservatism, really. And if you look at the republican party's views on the aforementioned issues, he doesn't really even share their views on fiscal policy, either.

Ron Paul is a libertarian. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I think he's great, but he is only running on the republican ticket because he knows there is absolutely no shot of a third party candidate ever winning the presidency when he would split the republican vote at best.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 09:44:48 PM by Nuts Kicked »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2012, 10:02:21 PM »
So who gives a crap if Ron Paul getting the nominee isn't democratic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The people who actually show up and vote at the primaries and caucuses do.
at which point you tell them they are mistaken if they think we live in a democracy.  How the eff do you not get this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Republican Party is not a republic or a democracy. It is a political party. They are free to nominate whoever they choose. It would just be completely asinine to nominate a candidate who wasn't the most popular amongst their members in a single state. Disenfranchising their members before the actual presidential election where votes really will matter would be incredibly stupid.

Offline chunkles

  • KSU CATS Videographer of the Week
  • Katpak'r
  • *****
  • Posts: 1698
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2012, 11:45:53 PM »

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #111 on: March 20, 2012, 12:55:37 AM »
You're right.  They are free to nominate whoever they chose. And by they, I mean the delegates.  I'm going to explain this in detail, because I get the feeling you & several people here, like myself a couple of years ago, don't fully understand the process.  Depending on what state you live in, there are different ways of becoming a delegate.  In caucus states, like kansas, delegates are elected at a precinct level by your very own neighbors.  Often times, only showing your willingness to dedicate yourself to the republican party and proving you are level headed person that represents the morals, desires & principles of your peers is enough to prove your ability to be a state delegate.  If you are able to gain enough support and enough people show up to your precinct caucus, you can be voted a delegate.  Not because you support Ron Paul, Newt Gengrich, Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum, but because your neighbors trust you as someone that has similar morals, principles & interest - and your best interest is their best interest.

The difference between this method & a democracy is obviously the popular vote is used at the very lowest of levels. A true democracy would take everyone's votes into account at the very highest level (the nomination & then again for the president) and there would be no delegates.  Here's why delegates are important:  How many people do you know invest any time into educating themselves on who the best candidate is?   Who checks to make sure a presidential candidate's voting record jives with is campaign?   Who does enough research to hold politicians accountable when it turns out they're a big fat liar?  Certainly not the average voter.  I would say you, and maybe three or four other people in this thread are that dedicated to learning as much as possible about these candidates.  Think of it this way, a democracy would work if it were electing a president to govern your city block.  You would know if he mows his lawn, yells at the neighbor kids or smokes weed in his basement. You know if they would represent your best interest.  In a republic, these delegates do the research and because the masses elected them due to their morals, wishes & principles - They represent the masses with 1 vote for president.   The process becomes slightly circumvented by binding the delegates to agree with the popular vote if there is an agreeance between all of the masses (otherwise known as a majority)   However, in the event a candidate does not gain the necessary amount of delegates, and the masses are not in agreeance, delegates are no longer bound to vote in accordance with the popular vote of their precincts and are indeed free to vote for whoever they wish to be the republican nominee. This very process is the definition of a Republic. Individuals being granted power by their peers to represent them in voting.  And THAT is why no one will have the right to bitch and moan if Ron Paul gets the nomination through a brokered convention.  They gave the delegates the power to put him there.  People get too wrapped up in this being a popularity contest.  What's popular among the people is NOT what's in their best interest.  Sarah Palin COULD NOT beat Obama. Period.  Yet I know hundreds of Republicans that worship the ground she walks on and can't seem to understand why she isn't running.  Republicans want Obama GONE.  They would vote for any republican to achieve that. I know tons of Liberals that would vote for Paul if he was an option - much more than conservatives that would refuse to vote for Paul if he were the only republican option.

As to Ron Paul not being a republican.   How is it fair to change the stance of the political party to accommodate the current crop of candidates, while suggesting someone is not a republican, who happens to be an individual that has tailored his very principles from  some of how the republican party was formed.  You may say the republican party has not changed, but that is not true.   
The First Republican President to take office was Abraham Lincoln.   Lets look at some of his principles; In the industrial sector he fought for the Union to be formed.   While Ron Paul is not a strong proponent of the Union, he believes in the right to work states. Here's a direct quote from his web site: "While Ron Paul supports the right of every American to join a private sector union if they wish, he believes, like most Americans, that forcing workers to pay union dues just to get or keep a job is wrong."  Lincoln supported the Unions because they advocated for the laborers.  Ron Paul also advocates for the Laborers by giving them a choice whether they want to be in a Union or Not.   Lincoln valued the founding fathers and often fell back on their principles during debates.   His approach to abolishing slavery was based off of the concept that ALL men are created equal - even though his main motivation was to empower unions- but whatever.   There isn't a single republican nominee in the past 20 years that has quoted the founding fathers as much as Ron Paul.   But speaking of Slavery - "Free Soil" ring a bell?  Early republicans wanted to provide a free market to the newly freed slaves by giving everyone a chance to purchase land rather than be give free worthless swamp land to live on.  Slaves were begging for the right to pool their $$ to purchase land that they could actually farm & build wealth on. Republicans wanted to allow them this right, with principles built on smaller government - a.k.a Not interfering with civil liberties.  Surely you can draw comparisons of allowing a free market within the social & welfare politics with slaves to the non-interventionist accusations Dr. Paul deflects by suggesting Foreign Aid does nothing to actually help people on a permanent basis but causes them to be dependents on government.   Don't give them a hand out - Allow them to participate in helping themselves.  People that call themselves republicans don't acknowledge this because it's not popular.  Very few people admit to this line of thinking - but it's been a recurring message over the years.  Take a look into what a social engineer is if you want more info on this subject.  I've a great article if you're interested

Lets see, What did you provide as examples...
Quote
national defense, social security, medicare, medicaid, the war on drugs, foreign aid, Israel and the Middle East, trade policy, gay marriage, internet gambling, the environment,
National Defense: early republicans only concerned themselves with their own civil wars - Not other peoples civil wars.  If our current crop of republicans would adopt a free market - no one would give a crap about isreal and oil in the middle east.  I covered Trade Policy & Foreign Aid already and gave examples why I think Ron Paul is in line with Republican thinking.  Gay Marriage.  Oooh.  I was hoping you would say that one.  Ever heard of John C. Fremont?   First guy to run as a republican, but anyway - his campaigns were often linked to the "Free Love" movement.  Can you guess what that's about?   Basically open marriages and women able to be whores - but given that all men are created equal, I would imagine if a woman was able to sleep with whoever she wanted, two dudes were certainly allowed to fornicate.   Doesn't sound very conservative does it?  It was definitely one of the original principles of the Republic.  The environment.  I don't know dude - He's open to drilling for oil any where & any time.  Not sure how that's not a common republican view.   War on drugs.  You got me.  Prohibition was put in place by Republicans - but it was also repealed by a Republican.  Call it even? Internet gambling...   Is this really an issue?  I don't have much on national defense.  But I think there's a lot of misconception of his actual stance.   He's a strong supporter of the right to bear arms.  He voted TO authorize military force to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and authored legislation to specifically target terrorist leaders and bring them to justice. Here's a link to read more: Ron Paul on National Defense/ 

He's also Pro-Life.  Certainly a very Republican point of view - you conveniently left that out. Oh, and he actually has a voting record and a philosophy that makes one believe he's not a liar when he says he will repeal Obamacare.  Social Security - He wants to eliminate taxes on them.  REPUBLICAN POINT OF VIEW.  Medicare medicaid - lot of spending cuts - smaller government yada yada yada.  Read above about early republicans holding principles of smaller government.  You could even compare this to my foreign aid argument. But I can go on and on.

So if you're still reading this, I have more examples of how much the republican party has changed in it's history.  The last forty years of the 1800's, the first congressional republicans to ever exist passed some pretty major legislation, the first government funded educational system, a national banking system, sky-high tariffs, the first income tax, paper money with no commodity driven backing all while allowing a huge national debt.   All those things sound more like a bunch of democrats to me - certainly not conservative. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 01:07:14 AM by HeinBallz »
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #112 on: March 20, 2012, 07:50:21 AM »
I guess the point I'm trying to make, is it's ridiculous to say Ron is not a republican while saying Newt, Mitt & Rick are.  Political parties are, like you said, an umbrella - which I see as a lot like religion.  You're making the statement that Baptist are not Christians as only Catholics are.  If anyone wants to run under the Republican party, it's because they want to generalize their stance on politics - just like if anyone says they're a Christian, they want to generalize their stance on religion.  Republicans can disagree with each other on basic fundamental principles without being cast out of their party.  I certainly don't know anyone that agrees 100% with everything their political party stands for.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #113 on: March 20, 2012, 08:39:22 AM »
You're right.  They are free to nominate whoever they chose. And by they, I mean the delegates.  I'm going to explain this in detail, because I get the feeling you & several people here, like myself a couple of years ago, don't fully understand the process.  Depending on what state you live in, there are different ways of becoming a delegate.  In caucus states, like kansas, delegates are elected at a precinct level by your very own neighbors.  Often times, only showing your willingness to dedicate yourself to the republican party and proving you are level headed person that represents the morals, desires & principles of your peers is enough to prove your ability to be a state delegate.  If you are able to gain enough support and enough people show up to your precinct caucus, you can be voted a delegate.  Not because you support Ron Paul, Newt Gengrich, Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum, but because your neighbors trust you as someone that has similar morals, principles & interest - and your best interest is their best interest.

The difference between this method & a democracy is obviously the popular vote is used at the very lowest of levels. A true democracy would take everyone's votes into account at the very highest level (the nomination & then again for the president) and there would be no delegates.  Here's why delegates are important:  How many people do you know invest any time into educating themselves on who the best candidate is?   Who checks to make sure a presidential candidate's voting record jives with is campaign?   Who does enough research to hold politicians accountable when it turns out they're a big fat liar?  Certainly not the average voter.  I would say you, and maybe three or four other people in this thread are that dedicated to learning as much as possible about these candidates.  Think of it this way, a democracy would work if it were electing a president to govern your city block.  You would know if he mows his lawn, yells at the neighbor kids or smokes weed in his basement. You know if they would represent your best interest.  In a republic, these delegates do the research and because the masses elected them due to their morals, wishes & principles - They represent the masses with 1 vote for president.   The process becomes slightly circumvented by binding the delegates to agree with the popular vote if there is an agreeance between all of the masses (otherwise known as a majority)   However, in the event a candidate does not gain the necessary amount of delegates, and the masses are not in agreeance, delegates are no longer bound to vote in accordance with the popular vote of their precincts and are indeed free to vote for whoever they wish to be the republican nominee. This very process is the definition of a Republic. Individuals being granted power by their peers to represent them in voting.  And THAT is why no one will have the right to bitch and moan if Ron Paul gets the nomination through a brokered convention.  They gave the delegates the power to put him there.  People get too wrapped up in this being a popularity contest.  What's popular among the people is NOT what's in their best interest.  Sarah Palin COULD NOT beat Obama. Period.  Yet I know hundreds of Republicans that worship the ground she walks on and can't seem to understand why she isn't running.  Republicans want Obama GONE.  They would vote for any republican to achieve that. I know tons of Liberals that would vote for Paul if he was an option - much more than conservatives that would refuse to vote for Paul if he were the only republican option.


I understand how the nomination process works. I never said it was impossible Ron Paul to get the nomination. I just said that it would be bullshit. Delegates are selected and trusted to vote according to how the results went in their precinct. It is possible that the Ron Paul campaign infiltrated this process and intends to hijack the Republican Party, but it just doesn't seem very likely to me.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
As to Ron Paul not being a republican.   How is it fair to change the stance of the political party to accommodate the current crop of candidates, while suggesting someone is not a republican, who happens to be an individual that has tailored his very principles from  some of how the republican party was formed.  You may say the republican party has not changed, but that is not true.   
The First Republican President to take office was Abraham Lincoln.   Lets look at some of his principles; In the industrial sector he fought for the Union to be formed.   While Ron Paul is not a strong proponent of the Union, he believes in the right to work states. Here's a direct quote from his web site: "While Ron Paul supports the right of every American to join a private sector union if they wish, he believes, like most Americans, that forcing workers to pay union dues just to get or keep a job is wrong."  Lincoln supported the Unions because they advocated for the laborers.  Ron Paul also advocates for the Laborers by giving them a choice whether they want to be in a Union or Not.   Lincoln valued the founding fathers and often fell back on their principles during debates.   His approach to abolishing slavery was based off of the concept that ALL men are created equal - even though his main motivation was to empower unions- but whatever.   There isn't a single republican nominee in the past 20 years that has quoted the founding fathers as much as Ron Paul.   But speaking of Slavery - "Free Soil" ring a bell?  Early republicans wanted to provide a free market to the newly freed slaves by giving everyone a chance to purchase land rather than be give free worthless swamp land to live on.  Slaves were begging for the right to pool their $$ to purchase land that they could actually farm & build wealth on. Republicans wanted to allow them this right, with principles built on smaller government - a.k.a Not interfering with civil liberties.  Surely you can draw comparisons of allowing a free market within the social & welfare politics with slaves to the non-interventionist accusations Dr. Paul deflects by suggesting Foreign Aid does nothing to actually help people on a permanent basis but causes them to be dependents on government.   Don't give them a hand out - Allow them to participate in helping themselves.  People that call themselves republicans don't acknowledge this because it's not popular.  Very few people admit to this line of thinking - but it's been a recurring message over the years.  Take a look into what a social engineer is if you want more info on this subject.  I've a great article if you're interested


You gave me crap for linking the most current copy of the official Republican Party Platform because it was 4 years old, yet you come back and say that Ron Paul would have fit right in 200 years ago. . . :dunno:

Quote from: HeinzBallz
Lets see, What did you provide as examples...
Quote
national defense, social security, medicare, medicaid, the war on drugs, foreign aid, Israel and the Middle East, trade policy, gay marriage, internet gambling, the environment,
National Defense: early republicans only concerned themselves with their own civil wars - Not other peoples civil wars.  If our current crop of republicans would adopt a free market - no one would give a crap about isreal and oil in the middle east.

It doesn't matter what the early republicans would have done. The party of today believes in a strong worldwide military presence where we fight wars for other people. Also, a free market includes trade with everyone, even the middle east.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
  I covered Trade Policy & Foreign Aid already and gave examples why I think Ron Paul is in line with Republican thinking.  Gay Marriage.  Oooh.  I was hoping you would say that one.  Ever heard of John C. Fremont?   First guy to run as a republican, but anyway - his campaigns were often linked to the "Free Love" movement.  Can you guess what that's about?   Basically open marriages and women able to be whores - but given that all men are created equal, I would imagine if a woman was able to sleep with whoever she wanted, two dudes were certainly allowed to fornicate.   Doesn't sound very conservative does it?  It was definitely one of the original principles of the Republic.

Again, it doesn't really matter what the first republican would have done. The current republican platform devotes nearly an entire page to protecting traditional marriage.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
  The environment.  I don't know dude - He's open to drilling for oil any where & any time.  Not sure how that's not a common republican view.

There are several key differences on environmental policy, and I honestly would not be surprised if the republicans change their stance on this when the next platform comes out. First of all, Ron Paul wants to abolish the EPA and just let the market handle all environmental issues (a bad idea, imo). The Republican Party wants to address climate change by working with the international community and using government dollars to fund research for zero emission technology.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
   War on drugs.  You got me.  Prohibition was put in place by Republicans - but it was also repealed by a Republican.  Call it even?

No.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
Internet gambling...   Is this really an issue?

Apparently it's enough of an issue to warrant its own subsection on the party platform.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
  I don't have much on national defense.  But I think there's a lot of misconception of his actual stance.   He's a strong supporter of the right to bear arms.  He voted TO authorize military force to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and authored legislation to specifically target terrorist leaders and bring them to justice. Here's a link to read more: Ron Paul on National Defense/ 

He also believes that national defense does not include preemptive wars, wars without the approval of congress, occupation of foreign lands, etc.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
He's also Pro-Life.  Certainly a very Republican point of view - you conveniently left that out.

Sure, he's pro-life, but does he believe in using government bureaucracy (paid for by the American people) to increase the steps needed to get an abortion like the republicans do? I honestly don't know.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
Social Security - He wants to eliminate taxes on them.

The republicans don't.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
  Medicare medicaid - lot of spending cuts - smaller government yada yada yada.

Republicans don't really want to cut back on Medicare and Medicaid. They just want to give the patient more options and root out fraud. Ron Paul would prefer if those programs just did not exist and he would make massive cuts to both of them.

Quote from: HeinzBallz
  Read above about early republicans holding principles of smaller government.  You could even compare this to my foreign aid argument. But I can go on and on.

So if you're still reading this, I have more examples of how much the republican party has changed in it's history.  The last forty years of the 1800's, the first congressional republicans to ever exist passed some pretty major legislation, the first government funded educational system, a national banking system, sky-high tariffs, the first income tax, paper money with no commodity driven backing all while allowing a huge national debt.   All those things sound more like a bunch of democrats to me - certainly not conservative.

Again, it doesn't really matter what the early Republicans (who much more resemble the democrats on most issues) would have done. The Republican Party is what it is. I'm sorry it's not what you want it to be.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #115 on: March 20, 2012, 03:24:59 PM »
Not sure you do understand the process if you don’t understand that the people elect delegates; and If the people elect delegates that will support Ron Paul – it’s their fault for not paying attention.   They’re welcome to get involved to choose whatever delegates would support whoever they want for president.  Don’t know how you have a beef with that.  You keep saying the delegates are elected to support the most popular candidate.   If the candidate doesn’t get to 1144 delegates, then he’s not real damn popular is he?  If they go with Romney – The Santorum people will be pissed – and likewise for the opposite.  Would it upset you more if they selected Geb Bush or Ron Paul?  Only one could beat Obama in my opinion – so as a republican I would be pretty pissed if the GOP is handing the keys back over to Obama without a fight.

As for the history lesson; dude, the entire premise of my post was to show you that the Republican party has changed.  I wasn’t busting your balls for posting a link that was four years old, I was pointing out how absurd it is that the republican party changes so much that they release an update to their platform every four years – yet you won’t admit that Ron Paul would have been considered a Republican – but the party has changed.   If they change so often,  what’s the point to making the statement a particular candidate is not a republican? I could pick an arbitrary point in time and argue that Obama is a Republican.  This is how political platforms change.  Someone breaks the barriers, or in this case – returns to something once traditional, and the party grows.   How do you think it got to this point? At points in time, some historically know republicans were probably accused of “not being a real Republican”.  He’s running under the Republican platform. Deal with it.

My honest opinion though, which is why I believe the statement you’re repeatedly making is absurd; Political affiliations exist so that ignorant people can choose a sides easier.  “I’m a Democrat so I’m gonna vote for so & so – or - I’m a republican so I’m gonna vote for so & so.”  As far as pissing off the voters – The have the option to vote for anyone they want when the actual election comes around.   The only purpose of the GOP caucuses is to select the candidate most likely to beat Obama.   The only reason the majority of people don’t like Ron Paul is because they’ve been told he’s not a republican.  Ask the average person that supports Rick Santorum why they don’t like Ron Paul, and they won’t be able to give you anything but a non-informed answer.  The only people that would be pissed about Ron getting the nominee is the GOP machine, because they know they’re losing control of what they’ve turned their party into.

Direct responses to your responses: No crap the free market includes the middle east.  Do you really think we’d still be buying oil from the middle east if we were allowed to tap into the oil here?  The policies on EPA are not guided by the republican party.  Their guided by what the people want.   There is a large majority of people that just want lower gas prices – but they’re getting sick of hearing about lack of supervision by the EPA.  If something isn’t working – you don’t dump more $$ into it.  If you explain it to the people this way, many will agree.  Look, I think you’re giving the average voter WAY too much credit.   Over half the population looks at who their going to vote for by A. can they still consider themselves a “Republican” or “Democrat” if they vote for this person (which we’ve covered how & why these parties are constantly changing)  B. How physically attractive is this candidate? C. How good of a speaker is this Candidate?  D. Does he tell me I’m awesome because I am a Christian and a Patriot?

That’s it.  No one gives a crap about the issues.  If they did – they probably wouldn’t hate Ron Paul so much.
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #116 on: March 20, 2012, 03:47:14 PM »

The only reason the majority of people don’t like Ron Paul is because they’ve been told he’s not a republican.  Ask the average person that supports Rick Santorum why they don’t like Ron Paul, and they won’t be able to give you anything but a non-informed answer. 


There are plenty of republicans who do not support Ron Paul because they are afraid of terrorists getting nuclear weapons, agree with jailing drug addicts, don't like gay people, etc.

Quote from: HeinzBallz

Direct responses to your responses: No crap the free market includes the middle east.  Do you really think we’d still be buying oil from the middle east if we were allowed to tap into the oil here? 


Yes. Unless we could magically make US oil cheaper to access, we would be pumping less domestic oil under a free market than we do today because the government wouldn't be subsidizing oil exploration to push "energy independent" policies. Economics drive oil exploration. Middle Eastern oil is shallower and has better yields than US oil. It is cheaper to import oil from the Middle East than it is to pump oil from American rigs.

As to everything else you said, Ron Paul has 50 delegates to date. If he can actually get enough delegates to vote for him in Tampa, more power to him. I just don't see it happening.

Offline kstatefreak42

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2911
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #117 on: March 21, 2012, 12:09:26 AM »
All I have to say is if your voting for Obama, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich.... F*CK YOU  :facepalm:

"Americans are looking for serious solutions, not more of same. In order to reject the status quo, lawmakers in Congress must act boldly and decisively on fiscal matters by adopting measures like those found in my own 'Plan to Restore America.' My plan actually cuts $1 trillion in spending in one year, and it sets the stage for serious reforms in entitlements while preserving benefits for seniors and the dependent. My plan also eliminates five unconstitutional cabinet departments, including the departments of Education and Energy. Additionally, my plan reduces the corporate tax rate to 15 percent, makes permanent the Bush-era tax cuts, and ends taxes on individual savings and repatriated capital. And it would balance the budget in only three years"“This is what a serious budget proposal looks like. Any proposal that doesn't cut real spending and adds to the deficit isn't one that will get us out of this mess and back on track"

“Of the five men seeking the office of President, I am the only one who has offered a serious plan with real cuts and a real path to economic prosperity.”

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:34:56 AM by kstatefreak42 »
EMAW

Offline LickNeckey

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7076
  • #fakeposts
    • View Profile
Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #118 on: March 21, 2012, 02:55:52 AM »
If Santorum gets the nod, which now seems increasingly inevitable due to the growing acceptance of anti-Mormon sentiment.  Are Republicans bigotting their way to a guaranteed Barry second term?

Also this election cycle has shown me that I do not hate conservatives in general.  Rather my views are fairly alligned with fiscal coservatives.  However I hate social conservatives and those that pander to them.

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #119 on: March 21, 2012, 09:17:24 AM »
If Santorum gets the nod, which now seems increasingly inevitable due to the growing acceptance of anti-Mormon sentiment.  Are Republicans bigotting their way to a guaranteed Barry second term?

Also this election cycle has shown me that I do not hate conservatives in general.  Rather my views are fairly alligned with fiscal coservatives.  However I hate social conservatives and those that pander to them.
In a sense, yes.  You can't imagine how disgusted I am with Santorum.  If I had to choose only between Romney & Obama,  I would take Romney only because I'm not yet sure if he's as big a liar as I think he is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline p1k3

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2555
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #120 on: March 21, 2012, 09:31:52 AM »
If Santorum gets the nod, which now seems increasingly inevitable due to the growing acceptance of anti-Mormon sentiment.  Are Republicans bigotting their way to a guaranteed Barry second term?

Also this election cycle has shown me that I do not hate conservatives in general.  Rather my views are fairly alligned with fiscal coservatives.  However I hate social conservatives and those that pander to them.

This is exactly where ive found myself.

And the Republicans dont like Ron Paul because they know he wouldnt persecute gays and bomb brown people.

Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38080
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #121 on: March 21, 2012, 10:40:48 AM »
If Santorum gets the nod, which now seems increasingly inevitable due to the growing acceptance of anti-Mormon sentiment.  Are Republicans bigotting their way to a guaranteed Barry second term?

Also this election cycle has shown me that I do not hate conservatives in general.  Rather my views are fairly alligned with fiscal coservatives.  However I hate social conservatives and those that pander to them.

This is exactly where ive found myself.

And the Republicans dont like Ron Paul because they know he wouldnt persecute gays and bomb brown people.

Man, if a candidate would just nut up and say this, he would be a shoe in with most R voters.

Offline HeinBallz

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2868
    • View Profile
Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #122 on: March 21, 2012, 11:04:45 AM »
If Santorum gets the nod, which now seems increasingly inevitable due to the growing acceptance of anti-Mormon sentiment.  Are Republicans bigotting their way to a guaranteed Barry second term?

Also this election cycle has shown me that I do not hate conservatives in general.  Rather my views are fairly alligned with fiscal coservatives.  However I hate social conservatives and those that pander to them.

This is exactly where ive found myself.

And the Republicans dont like Ron Paul because they know he wouldnt persecute gays and bomb brown people.

Man, if a candidate would just nut up and say this, he would be a shoe in with most R voters.
. His name is Santorum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #123 on: March 21, 2012, 11:27:44 AM »
If Santorum gets the nod, which now seems increasingly inevitable due to the growing acceptance of anti-Mormon sentiment.  Are Republicans bigotting their way to a guaranteed Barry second term?

Also this election cycle has shown me that I do not hate conservatives in general.  Rather my views are fairly alligned with fiscal coservatives.  However I hate social conservatives and those that pander to them.

This is exactly where ive found myself.

And the Republicans dont like Ron Paul because they know he wouldnt persecute gays and bomb brown people.

Man, if a candidate would just nut up and say this, he would be a shoe in with most R voters.
. His name is Santorum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So true.

Offline _33

  • The Inventor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10542
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum, really? Screw you Kansas.
« Reply #124 on: March 21, 2012, 12:48:14 PM »
Hating someone based on their political beliefs is so stupid.