Coaching update

[sonofdaxjones]

Lou Henson, Lon Kruger, Bill Self, oscar Weber . . . Frank Martin.

LOL . . . right.

[ChiComCat]

I agree C43.

I have a question for the Illinois is clearly a better job crowd.  All of these schools are within 250 miles of Chicago, do they all have the Chicago recruiting advantage?

Depaul
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Marquette
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Indiana
Purdue

Compared to KSU, yes, absolutely. (except maybe Iowa and Indiana.)

Illinois and KSU are VERY, VERY similar. The biggest difference is 10 million people in the Chicago metro vs. 2 million in KC. It's enough to make Illinois a better job than KSU. However, I don't think it's enough to mean Frank is without a doubt going assuming the money is equal.

Yea, I think there is an elite tier of jobs, then a number of jobs beneath that tier that theres not a lot of difference between.  Illinois is in the second tier, along with K-state.  Illinois is better, but there just isn't a whole lot of value in changing unless the money is right or you hate your current job.  The goal of most of these coaches is to get to an elite job and when you change jobs, you generally have to put in more years reestablishing yourself at that one.

I've never understood the concept of "best jobs."  There's many personally specific things that combine with the general things discussed here that would make a job desirable or not.

Aren't the majority of successful coaches the type who will think they'll be responsible for their own success, not history or mileage?

I think that I'll be successful at any job I'm in.  But if I'm offered a position in a place I'd rather live, more money, prestigous company, or gives me better tools for the job, I'm going to look at it

[OregonSmock]

Are profits more important to a coach than expenditures?  I would think a coach would be pissed that his program made like $9 million more than a peer school yet spent the same.

Loving two straight posts that states Illinois is better just because it is.  Sound logic actually.

JFC, man.  K-State isn't even the best job in the state of Kansas.  Illinois is one of the top 10-15 jobs in the country.  They had a shitty coach the past few years, but they still have better fan support, more money, and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Quit being such an idiot.

[MakeItRain]

Question for those that think that Illinois is a much better program than KSU.  Where would you rank the two and what are using as your rank criteria?  Just wondering the criteria because I'm told we can't use the historic info on the two schools.  They both spend the same amount of money on basketball.  If we're using the last 20 years, seems arbitrary but whatever, Illinois most successful coach of the last 20 years left after 3 and the longest tenured coach at Illinois was just fired after winning like 2 tournament games in the last 6 years including having a year where he didn't even qualify for the NIT.  Meanwhile Kansas State is clearly behind Illinois in wins the last 20 years but their most successful coach is still there.


I never said KSU is a better program, I said they were equal.  Without looking I would think both programs would be in the high teens to mid 20s.

[sonofdaxjones]

FY 2011 Gross Revenues:

Illinois-$57.5 million

K-State-$68.8 million

[CHONGS]

listen I never said much better

jfc

[MakeItRain]

Illinois and KSU are VERY, VERY similar.

Exactly what I said before Moonbeems, kim, and clams had seizures.  Illinois is an elite job and KSU is a shitty one.

[Trim]

I think that I'll be successful at any job I'm in.  But if I'm offered a position in a place I'd rather live, more money, prestigous company, or gives me better tools for the job, I'm going to look at it

Right. 

Place one would rather live is a personal matter; Illinois isn't a place I presume people would rather live over most other places.  I think there's a very small handful of schools that based on location can say with certainty that they are a place anyone would rather live.

Money is set when somebody's hired; it's not a permanent principle that Illinois or any other job pays X + 1 while other jobs pay X. 

Prestigious company/school?  I guess.  I think some coaches might think it's important to coach at a historically elite place, while others would rather make their own mark.

Better tools for the job - absolutely.  Aside from straight cash homey, you want to make sure you'll be making cash for a long time and/or have the success to allow you to hop jobs to make more cash.  But I wouldn't count past history as much of a tool.  Yeah, proximity to a city with a greater pool is good, but I don't think it's quite as important now with travel/tv/technology as it is.

I don't think there can be a definitive list of "best jobs."  A job's desirability depends on who's desiring it.  It's up to Frank or whoever which job they want. 

Well, not really.  Guess it's kind of up to whoever's making decisions at Miami too.

[CHONGS]

I never said ksu was a shitty job either and don't know who did.

[Pete]

Are profits more important to a coach than expenditures?  I would think a coach would be pissed that his program made like $9 million more than a peer school yet spent the same.

Loving two straight posts that states Illinois is better just because it is.  Sound logic actually.

JFC, man.  K-State isn't even the best job in the state of Kansas.  Illinois is one of the top 10-15 jobs in the country.  They had a shitty coach the past few years, but they still have better fan support, more money, and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Quit being such an idiot.

Duke isn't the best job in the state of North Carolina. 

[MakeItRain]

Weber failing isn't some sort of sign that Illinois isn't a good job.  It's a sign that Weber isn't that good.

I think you're the only one who made this argument.  Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say that when assessing the quality of programs you should go back 20 years?  If so I'm pretty sure you then can't discount the mark that the longest tenured coach in that time frame left.

[Cartierfor3]

JFC, man.  K-State isn't even the best job in the state of Kansas.  Illinois is one of the top 10-15 jobs in the country.  They had a shitty coach the past few years, but they still have better fan support, more money, and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Quit being such an idiot.

wait, what?

[OregonSmock]

FY 2011 Gross Revenues:

Illinois-$57.5 million

K-State-$68.8 million

Illinois is the 5th most profitable basketball program in the country.  They have a larger fanbase and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Total athletic department revenue is irrelevant to this discussion.  You want an idea of how much more money Illinois has than K-State?  Just take a look at each school's respective endowment:

Illinois - $1.6 billion

K-State - ~$300 million

[OregonSmock]

Are profits more important to a coach than expenditures?  I would think a coach would be pissed that his program made like $9 million more than a peer school yet spent the same.

Loving two straight posts that states Illinois is better just because it is.  Sound logic actually.

JFC, man.  K-State isn't even the best job in the state of Kansas.  Illinois is one of the top 10-15 jobs in the country.  They had a shitty coach the past few years, but they still have better fan support, more money, and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Quit being such an idiot.

Duke isn't the best job in the state of North Carolina.

LOL @ comparing K-State to Duke.  You guys are delusional. 

[Cartierfor3]

FY 2011 Gross Revenues:

Illinois-$57.5 million

K-State-$68.8 million

Illinois is the 5th most profitable basketball program in the country.  They have a larger fanbase and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Total athletic department revenue is irrelevant to this discussion.  You want an idea of how much more money Illinois has than K-State?  Just take a look at each school's respective endowment:

Illinois - $1.6 billion

K-State - ~$300 million

YES!  He played the endowment card.  Beems tell us about the Orange Bowl

[Pete]

If you are a college basketball coach, it seems to me that you judge the quality of a job in only two ways 1) how much they pay, 2) your ability to recruit to the school (which includes many factors).

If you have a high opinion of both of those qualities in a school, you will go there.  Right?

[Pete]

FY 2011 Gross Revenues:

Illinois-$57.5 million

K-State-$68.8 million

Illinois is the 5th most profitable basketball program in the country.  They have a larger fanbase and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Total athletic department revenue is irrelevant to this discussion.  You want an idea of how much more money Illinois has than K-State?  Just take a look at each school's respective endowment:

Illinois - $1.6 billion

K-State - ~$300 million

Harvard pays really shitty.

[MakeItRain]

Are profits more important to a coach than expenditures?  I would think a coach would be pissed that his program made like $9 million more than a peer school yet spent the same.

Loving two straight posts that states Illinois is better just because it is.  Sound logic actually.

JFC, man.  K-State isn't even the best job in the state of Kansas.  Illinois is one of the top 10-15 jobs in the country.  They had a shitty coach the past few years, but they still have better fan support, more money, and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Quit being such an idiot.

Duke isn't the best job in the state of North Carolina.

Duh, it would be silly to argue that a program is a quality program when they aren't even the best in their state.  Duke is a trash program, so are Louisville, Baylor, Florida State, Purdue, Notre Dame, Marquette, and Memphis.

[Pete]

Are profits more important to a coach than expenditures?  I would think a coach would be pissed that his program made like $9 million more than a peer school yet spent the same.

Loving two straight posts that states Illinois is better just because it is.  Sound logic actually.

JFC, man.  K-State isn't even the best job in the state of Kansas.  Illinois is one of the top 10-15 jobs in the country.  They had a shitty coach the past few years, but they still have better fan support, more money, and more recruiting advantages than K-State.  Quit being such an idiot.

Duke isn't the best job in the state of North Carolina.

LOL @ comparing K-State to Duke.  You guys are delusional.

Is it, or isn't it important to be the best program in your state?  I had been thinking that it wasn't that important, but then your argument got me thinking...

[sonofdaxjones]

People don't give money to Academic Endowments and then tell the foundation to feel free to peel off some of that cash any old time the feel like it and give it to Athletics . . . that's not how it works.

K-State is building frank what will be the best basketball training facility in the country when it opens its doors and K-State athletics if it chooses to do so could match any number Illinois puts on the table.

[pissclams]

Another question, Does the fact that Wichita had a McD's all American this year and will have another next year give KSU a boost in the close recruit rankings over Syracuse?

Who did the McD's All-American from Wichita sign with?

The argument is availability of quality recruits clams.  Between this and your USF post I'm convinced you're having a separate conversation all by yourself.

And based upon every one of your posts in this thread, I'm not surprised.

[sonofdaxjones]

K-State's total athletic department made more than $11 million dollars more than Illinois' athletic department made in FY 2011 . . . Pepperjax, "That's not relevant".

LOL

[catzacker]

Weber failing isn't some sort of sign that Illinois isn't a good job.  It's a sign that Weber isn't that good.

I think you're the only one who made this argument.  Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you say that when assessing the quality of programs you should go back 20 years?  If so I'm pretty sure you then can't discount the mark that the longest tenured coach in that time frame left.

certainly not.  i would look at why someone wasn't successful in a place where people were successful over a period of time.  KSU has gone through 3 unsuccessful coaches (Dana, Ass, Neckbrace) in the past 20 years, Illinois 1 (Weber - who was "better" than the 3 unsuccessful coaches at KSU, atleast IMO).  Over that time, Illinois has won 5 conference championships (but only one w/ Weber) and 2 conf tourney championships (again, only 1 w/ Weber), KSU has won 0 of each over that time.  Then when you factor in the available talent at a closer proximity, I would argue that Illinois is a better job.  How much? eff, I don't know.  But better. 

[ChiComCat]

K-State's total athletic department made more than $11 million dollars more than Illinois' athletic department made in FY 2011 . . . Pepperjax, "That's not relevant".

LOL

I'll bet all the coaches sit around and brag about their university's endowments

[catzacker]

K-State's total athletic department made more than $11 million dollars more than Illinois' athletic department made in FY 2011 . . . Pepperjax, "That's not relevant".

LOL

I'll bet all the coaches sit around and brag about their university's endowments

pete...earmuffs.....

I talk about KSU's endowments when I'm banging my wife.  whisper it into her ear.  it's hot.