Sprads shooting woes

[EllToPay]

Fire away, Will.

[MakeItRain]

Bottom line, he's in a slump. Pretty sure, he'd say so. Slumps end.

He's supposed to be our shooter, people keep making excuses to why he isn't shooting.  I challenge you to find a shooter who has had a 7 game "slump" like this.  I still will take Will over Keaton Paige but compare their numbers, he's also a shooting guard playing point in a slump.

Is this the time that I mention that he's supposedly being hurt by playing point but his assist number was once again and his torrid fouling pace as a guard continues.

[kso_FAN]

Jesus christ he's still 39% from 3 on the year while taking significantly more shots than last year when he shot 37%. It's just a normal period pretty much every shooter goes through every year. No one shoots 40% every game. You'll have a few 20% games and a few 60% games along the way.

Jesus Christ. Does Kansas State University teach statistics.

I don't consider a 5 game stretch (and 6 out of 7) with no eFG% over 40% statistically irrelevant. I think he needs to keep shooting and he'll work out of it, but to me this is a significant slump. And the 3 points shooting is an issue, but my biggest disappointment is that he's only 27% on 2PT attempts in Big 12 games.

It is about as statistically relevant as Angel shooting 15% from 3 before Honolulu. (He's shooting 43%from 3 in conference games). Agree that Doc's 2's could be better, but again, he's not far off from last year and he's already taken 13 more attempts from 2.

I don't consider a comparision between a 2nd year player and the first 10 games of a true freshman significant.

I guess I'm partially suprised because Sprads never had a stretch in Big 12 play last year as a true FR with anything close to these struggles. Even though his role is different and he is playing more this year, he still had a significant role last year in Big 12 games. He played as least 50% of the minutes in Big 12 games most of the year last year, and by the end was playing between 60-80% in most games. He had some bad eFG% games, but never had 2 or more eFG% games of below 40% in a row. In only 6 of 16 Big 12 games was he below 40% in eFG%, this year he has 6 out of 7 below 40%.

[MakeItRain]

Jesus christ he's still 39% from 3 on the year while taking significantly more shots than last year when he shot 37%. It's just a normal period pretty much every shooter goes through every year. No one shoots 40% every game. You'll have a few 20% games and a few 60% games along the way.

Jesus Christ. Does Kansas State University teach statistics.

I don't consider a 5 game stretch (and 6 out of 7) with no eFG% over 40% statistically irrelevant. I think he needs to keep shooting and he'll work out of it, but to me this is a significant slump. And the 3 points shooting is an issue, but my biggest disappointment is that he's only 27% on 2PT attempts in Big 12 games.

It is about as statistically relevant as Angel shooting 15% from 3 before Honolulu. (He's shooting 43%from 3 in conference games). Agree that Doc's 2's could be better, but again, he's not far off from last year and he's already taken 13 more attempts from 2.

I don't consider a comparision between a 2nd year player and the first 10 games of a true freshman significant.

I guess I'm partially suprised because Sprads never had a stretch in Big 12 play last year as a true FR with anything close to these struggles. Even though his role is different and he is playing more this year, he still had a significant role last year in Big 12 games. He played as least 50% of the minutes in Big 12 games most of the year last year, and by the end was playing between 60-80% in most games. He had some bad eFG% games, but never had 2 or more eFG% games of below 40% in a row. In only 6 of 16 Big 12 games was he below 40% in eFG%, this year he has 6 out of 7 below 40%.

I've said it for a year and a half, he's struggling because his role is too much, he greatly needs a reduced role.

[kso_FAN]

I've said it for a year and a half, he's struggling because his role is too much, he greatly needs a reduced role.

To be fair, he's only struggled for a month and handled his role really well most of the OOC schedule. He shot poorly at VT, but he was largely very good in the OOC.

And I think Frank is making an attempt to change his role back to one that fits him better by playing Angel more at PG.

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle of the broad Will critique spectrum that has Rusty on one end and MIR on the other.

[MakeItRain]

I've said it for a year and a half, he's struggling because his role is too much, he greatly needs a reduced role.

To be fair, he's only struggled for a month and handled his role really well most of the OOC schedule. He shot poorly at VT, but he was largely very good in the OOC.

And I think Frank is making an attempt to change his role back to one that fits him better by playing Angel more at PG.

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle of the broad Will critique spectrum that has Rusty on one end and MIR on the other.

Yeah he's struggled against the tough part of the schedule and played decently in the non-con.  If Will isn't going to shoot there is no reason that 'tay can't get more minutes.  Unfortunately Shane and Jones are worse than Will

[mocat]

Shooters gotta shoot.  You gotta shoot yourself out of a slump.  Denis was the best at that.  Our dumbass fans used to get so mad at him for bombing away but they were less mad when he started hitting all those shots.  Denis never quit (or slowed down) shooting.

Man those were the good ol days, when tucks readily outed themselves right and left every time Denis took a pullup 3. "OH GODDAMMIT DEN- oh crap he made it. lucky shot"

[Powercat Posse]

prior to this slump......

He was 17 of his 34 from 3 pt land (8 game stretch).

So he was shooting a very good clip from 3 over a span that is 1/4 of the season basicly

[bigwillie20]

He can't hit crap right now but that doesn't mean he shouldn't keep firing away.  Probably the only way we win games in March is if he is hitting from the outside or is at least seen as a threat out there to defenses.

[kso_FAN]

Yeah he's struggled against the tough part of the schedule and played decently in the non-con.  If Will isn't going to shoot there is no reason that 'tay can't get more minutes.  Unfortunately Shane and Jones are worse than Will

My point was that against the better teams besides VT from our non-con he still shot well.

Tay is playing 60% of the minutes in conference games. I could see that increasing to 65-70%, but I don't think Frank will play Will less than 70% of the time and probably not less than 80%.

[MakeItRain]

prior to this slump......

He was 17 of his 34 from 3 pt land (8 game stretch).

So he was shooting a very good clip from 3 over a span that is 1/4 of the season basicly

So?  He was shooting well when we played inferior competition and he got better looks, should we give him a participation ribbon?  Diaz was awesome against North Florida, should he get a ribbon too?  We are deep enough into conference play that we shouldn't be giving players a pass because of what they did against Maryland Eastern Shore, Loyola, North Florida, and Southern Illinois.

[kso_FAN]

So?  He was shooting well when we played inferior competition and he got better looks, should we give him a participation ribbon?  Diaz was awesome against North Florida, should he get a ribbon too?  We are deep enough into conference play that we shouldn't be giving players a pass because of what they did against Maryland Eastern Shore, Loyola, North Florida, and Southern Illinois.

Now your pushing your talking point just based on perception. As I said, Sprads had one bad OOC game against quality competition shooting the ball; at VT. Even against VT he had a very good Off rating though of 129. Against the 3 best teams in our OOC (WVU, Bama, Long Beach) he shot 72.7, 58.3, and 78.5 eFG% respectively. Against the next tier of teams (not terrible, but not good; Charleston, GW, UTEP) he shot 50%, 50%, and 75% eFG% respectively. Overall in the OOC he had one game with an Off rating below 112. Its just not accurate to say he padded his numbers against the bad teams (worse than #200 rated).

[MakeItRain]

So?  He was shooting well when we played inferior competition and he got better looks, should we give him a participation ribbon?  Diaz was awesome against North Florida, should he get a ribbon too?  We are deep enough into conference play that we shouldn't be giving players a pass because of what they did against Maryland Eastern Shore, Loyola, North Florida, and Southern Illinois.

Now your pushing your talking point just based on perception. As I said, Sprads had one bad OOC game against quality competition shooting the ball; at VT. Even against VT he had a very good Off rating though of 129. Against the 3 best teams in our OOC (WVU, Bama, Long Beach) he shot 72.7, 58.3, and 78.5 eFG% respectively. Against the next tier of teams (not terrible, but not good; Charleston, GW, UTEP) he shot 50%, 50%, and 75% eFG% respectively. Overall in the OOC he had one game with an Off rating below 112. Its just not accurate to say he padded his numbers against the bad teams (worse than #200 rated).

You're getting so bogged down by stats that you're foregoing common sense.  Conference play brings familiarity and improved scouting.  You know at some point it is proper to utilize your eyes, seems to work for football, no?

[michigancat]

Keep beating that drum rusty, there's no problem here.  All "shooters" have 7 game stretches like this.  0-5, 2 points, 1 assist, 3 fouls in 22 minutes.  I agree there's nothing wrong he's getting better

Stats class

Why are you giving him this arbitrary "shooter" tag? Who are some players you think he should be compared to?

[kso_FAN]

So?  He was shooting well when we played inferior competition and he got better looks, should we give him a participation ribbon?  Diaz was awesome against North Florida, should he get a ribbon too?  We are deep enough into conference play that we shouldn't be giving players a pass because of what they did against Maryland Eastern Shore, Loyola, North Florida, and Southern Illinois.

Now your pushing your talking point just based on perception. As I said, Sprads had one bad OOC game against quality competition shooting the ball; at VT. Even against VT he had a very good Off rating though of 129. Against the 3 best teams in our OOC (WVU, Bama, Long Beach) he shot 72.7, 58.3, and 78.5 eFG% respectively. Against the next tier of teams (not terrible, but not good; Charleston, GW, UTEP) he shot 50%, 50%, and 75% eFG% respectively. Overall in the OOC he had one game with an Off rating below 112. Its just not accurate to say he padded his numbers against the bad teams (worse than #200 rated).

You're getting so bogged down by stats that you're foregoing common sense.  Conference play brings familiarity and improved scouting.  You know at some point it is proper to utilize your eyes, seems to work for football, no?

Yeah, and my eyes also tell me he's missing a lot of open shots.

And again, its not like I haven't acknowledged that he's struggling. But I suppose if you want to win the argument, go ahead.

[EllToPay]

Fire away, Will.

[MakeItRain]

So?  He was shooting well when we played inferior competition and he got better looks, should we give him a participation ribbon?  Diaz was awesome against North Florida, should he get a ribbon too?  We are deep enough into conference play that we shouldn't be giving players a pass because of what they did against Maryland Eastern Shore, Loyola, North Florida, and Southern Illinois.

Now your pushing your talking point just based on perception. As I said, Sprads had one bad OOC game against quality competition shooting the ball; at VT. Even against VT he had a very good Off rating though of 129. Against the 3 best teams in our OOC (WVU, Bama, Long Beach) he shot 72.7, 58.3, and 78.5 eFG% respectively. Against the next tier of teams (not terrible, but not good; Charleston, GW, UTEP) he shot 50%, 50%, and 75% eFG% respectively. Overall in the OOC he had one game with an Off rating below 112. Its just not accurate to say he padded his numbers against the bad teams (worse than #200 rated).

You're getting so bogged down by stats that you're foregoing common sense.  Conference play brings familiarity and improved scouting.  You know at some point it is proper to utilize your eyes, seems to work for football, no?

Yeah, and my eyes also tell me he's missing a lot of open shots.

And again, its not like I haven't acknowledged that he's struggling. But I suppose if you want to win the argument, go ahead.

I think we are pretty close to agreeing on Will, I just think that the non-con has no relevance to what is happening now.  Angel is playing much better now, if someone pointed out that he still sucked because of what he did in the non-con we'd be all over him.

[MakeItRain]

Keep beating that drum rusty, there's no problem here.  All "shooters" have 7 game stretches like this.  0-5, 2 points, 1 assist, 3 fouls in 22 minutes.  I agree there's nothing wrong he's getting better

Stats class

Why are you giving him this arbitrary "shooter" tag? Who are some players you think he should be compared to?

You guys gave him the shooter tag when after the OSU game I pointed out all of the things he was doing wrong.  I heard the "he's playing the point which is out of position" talking point, people constantly mention his eFG in that thread, "shooters should keep shooting," etc.  I don't view him as a driveway shooter, that's why I put shooter in quotations.  In the OSU PP/NN thread I compared him to Clent Stewart and that is what I expect from him.  This is why I'm frustrated with his assist & TO numbers.

Now I feel bad because last year and early this season I gave him grief for being just a ball mover, man I long for those days.

[kso_FAN]

I think we are pretty close to agreeing on Will, I just think that the non-con has no relevance to what is happening now.  Angel is playing much better now, if someone pointed out that he still sucked because of what he did in the non-con we'd be all over him.

Fair point and I agree on Angel.

To make noise the rest of the way in this league we need Angel AND Will to play well.

[SleepFighter]

I have it on good authority that Will loaded up on the Under on the Mitch HS mentions prop bet. 

He's smart enough to know that the team would still be okay without him.  Who wouldn't take the free money?

[michigancat]

Keep beating that drum rusty, there's no problem here.  All "shooters" have 7 game stretches like this.  0-5, 2 points, 1 assist, 3 fouls in 22 minutes.  I agree there's nothing wrong he's getting better

Stats class

Why are you giving him this arbitrary "shooter" tag? Who are some players you think he should be compared to?

You guys gave him the shooter tag when after the OSU game I pointed out all of the things he was doing wrong.  I heard the "he's playing the point which is out of position" talking point, people constantly mention his eFG in that thread, "shooters should keep shooting," etc.  I don't view him as a driveway shooter, that's why I put shooter in quotations.  In the OSU PP/NN thread I compared him to Clent Stewart and that is what I expect from him.  This is why I'm frustrated with his assist & TO numbers.

Now I feel bad because last year and early this season I gave him grief for being just a ball mover, man I long for those days.

Oh Jesus. I just said he was fine, never that he was some sort of driveway shooter.

And seriously, you should be slapped for comparing him to Clent. You are not that stupid. I mean, I know you like to ignore stats and use your eyes, but my God:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=clent-stewart&i=1&p1=will-spradling
http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=10550
http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=369

Clent's turnovers his sophomore year. Wow.

[kso_FAN]

And seriously, you should be slapped for comparing him to Clent. You are not that stupid. I mean, I know you like to ignore stats and use your eyes, but my God:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=clent-stewart&i=1&p1=will-spradling
http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=10550
http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=369

Clent's turnovers his sophomore year. Wow.

If we're going to bring a comparison, let's bring a real comparison.

 

[kitten_mittons]

My prediction?  Will goes 5-6 from downtown one of these nights and someone bumps this thread with  as the message.

[MakeItRain]

Keep beating that drum rusty, there's no problem here.  All "shooters" have 7 game stretches like this.  0-5, 2 points, 1 assist, 3 fouls in 22 minutes.  I agree there's nothing wrong he's getting better

Stats class

Why are you giving him this arbitrary "shooter" tag? Who are some players you think he should be compared to?

You guys gave him the shooter tag when after the OSU game I pointed out all of the things he was doing wrong.  I heard the "he's playing the point which is out of position" talking point, people constantly mention his eFG in that thread, "shooters should keep shooting," etc.  I don't view him as a driveway shooter, that's why I put shooter in quotations.  In the OSU PP/NN thread I compared him to Clent Stewart and that is what I expect from him.  This is why I'm frustrated with his assist & TO numbers.

Now I feel bad because last year and early this season I gave him grief for being just a ball mover, man I long for those days.

Oh Jesus. I just said he was fine, never that he was some sort of driveway shooter.

And seriously, you should be slapped for comparing him to Clent. You are not that stupid. I mean, I know you like to ignore stats and use your eyes, but my God:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=clent-stewart&i=1&p1=will-spradling
http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=10550
http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=369

Clent's turnovers his sophomore year. Wow.

I don't believe I ever said you, Rusty, called him a driveway shooter.  I listed the talking points used in regards to Will, did you miss them.  My repeated, guys Will is okay is a direct shot at you.  Also let's compare the Clent and Will stats at the end of conference play.  The raw assist & to numbers are projecting pretty closely.  If Will continues to trend the way he is pointing Clent's assist numbers will remain better and the TOs will tighten up considerably.

Also what's the issue with comparing Will to Clent?  Is the issue you want Will to be more, because he hasn't to this point.  I noticed the cute little trick you used comparing Clent's senior year to Will's sophomore year.  That was Clent's worst year.  At this point in their careers their advanced stats are a wash, Clent has more assists and TOs other than that, I don't know how you can claim a statistical advantage for one or the other.  And LOL at paying for Kenpom, statsheet is sufficient thanks.  

[MakeItRain]

My prediction?  Will goes 5-6 from downtown one of these nights and someone bumps this thread with  as the message.

Nothing would make me happier, I'm as big of a K-State basketball sunshine pumper as anyone.