Author Topic: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...  (Read 11447 times)

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Offline kso_FAN

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You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« on: January 10, 2012, 10:58:24 PM »
1st   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   34   0.96   50.0%   23.3%   28.6%   17.2%
Opp   34   0.90   48.3%   29.1%   35.3%   17.2%

2nd   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   32   1.24   61.9%   37.3%   66.7%   85.7%
Opp   32   1.37   72.0%   24.9%   54.5%   40.0%

Total   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   67   1.09   55.0%   29.8%   46.2%   46.0%
Opp   67   1.12   59.3%   26.9%   42.9%   27.8%

Its hard to pick a GOAT in this one, and there have been plenty tossed around, most fairly. Really, outside of McGruds and in many moments JO, many played a part in this loss (including Frank). If you tell me that the Cats lead at half then in the 2nd half go over 60% eFG%, over 60% OR% and over 85% FTR I would say there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that they lose. But all for not.

The Cats managed to turn it over 1 out of every 3 possessions in the 2nd half and still score at a clip of over 1.2 points per possession. But then the defense. Baylor managed nearly 1.4 PPP and overcame everything K-State threw at them (and took a few gifts along the way).

I will add that I can't help be impressed by Baylor coming out of this one. K-State absolutely destroyed Drew's zone and he was forced to go to man defense. Granted, they nearly fouled out what seemed like their whole team (yet no one actually fouled out), but they survived. K-State mistakes had plenty to do with this the Cat loss, but Baylor also did plenty to win it, and most importantly they were able to hang with us as we constantly tried to turn the game into basketbrawl.


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Offline 06wildcat

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 11:01:48 PM »
_fan, would require a shitload of time, but would love to know opposing teams' efg% and ppp against our zone.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 11:03:00 PM »
_fan, would require a shitload of time, but would love to know opposing teams' efg% and ppp against our zone.

It has backfired more than it has helped lately, that's for sure. It was working pretty nicely earlier in the year, but in the Big 12 it has not been good.

Offline sys

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 11:12:37 PM »
agree, the two takeaways are impressed with baylor, especially their ability to play pressure man (already knew they could score), and appalled at our lazy crowd.
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Offline mocat

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 11:12:41 PM »
this one hurts. this one hurts a lot. personally haven't felt more irrational pain from a basketball game since wisconsin last year watching jake cry

Offline Fuktard

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 11:13:48 PM »
The zone is a very minor talking point.  Frank uses it in ways that I can't argue with.  What Frank will look back on and is his decision to play Angel overy Tay in critical moments of the game where Angel played like a (very bad) freshman.  His turnovers were mind blowing.  Getting poke picked from behind on that layup is inexcusable.  Having the freshman inbound the ball on the last play was also hard to understand.   Why Tay wasn't in was beyond me.  There were other head scratching substitutions but that was a big one.  This game was so winnable and yet we found a way to lose.  I'm hopeful the critcal mistakes will be a learning tool for young Angel...turn lemons into some (bitter) lemonade.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 11:16:16 PM »
Spradling had his worst game in a while. To beat the best teams he has to play better. Has to.

Angel had moments of brilliance followed by moments of absolute terrible play. Gip as well. We really can't afford to have both play up and down frosh basketball at the same time.

I had high hopes about Jamar after V Tech, silly me. Jamar is fine, he's just always going to be Jamar. He has an amazing ability to make easy shots very difficult (and miss).

I can't say enough about McGruds. JO still had moments of being soft, but his good/great moments far outweighed those.

Tay was spectacular to begin the game, then pretty meh afterwards.

We just couldn't consistently stay in front of their guards. They are good. Yeah, plenty of dumb TOs, but they settled down enough to win. Jackson's 2 straight 3s were huge. Miller's 3 was as well. And Canadian driveway was driveway. Miller and Acy are also really good. I have no doubt that Baylor is the most talented team in the league, it will come down to whether or not Drew can stop being Drew.


Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 11:18:53 PM »
What Frank will look back on and is his decision to play Angel overy Tay in critical moments of the game where Angel played like a (very bad) freshman.  His turnovers were mind blowing.  Getting poke picked from behind on that layup is inexcusable.  Having the freshman inbound the ball on the last play was also hard to understand.   Why Tay wasn't in was beyond me.  There were other head scratching substitutions but that was a big one.  This game was so winnable and yet we found a way to lose.  I'm hopeful the critcal mistakes will be a learning tool for young Angel...turn lemons into some (bitter) lemonade.

I agree with this. I'm fine with Angel getting some minutes (it really seemed like he played a lot more than 12), but down the stretch (last 4 minutes) even if he's in Sprads needs to bring the ball up the floor. Granted, Sprads didn't play great either, but in a possession game I would've still been comfortable with Sprads getting us into offense.

And to not find more ways to get the ball to McGruds down the stretch became frustrating. Baylor simply couldn't guard him.

Offline mcmwcat

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 07:20:27 AM »
Spradling had his worst game in a while.

last Wednesday?

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 07:24:52 AM »
Spradling had his worst game in a while.

last Wednesday?

Similar. He shot worse last night and it was at home.

Offline EMAW4life-JHL

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 07:26:40 AM »
Irving is never gonna be a high scorer for us. love his tough defense though and i feel fairly confident in him making a pretty easy mid range jumper or taking it to the rim. we just need a lot more consistency and someone besides Rodney to score.
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Offline mcmwcat

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 07:31:18 AM »
Irving is never gonna be a high scorer for us. love his tough defense though and i feel fairly confident in him making a pretty easy mid range jumper or taking it to the rim. we just need a lot more consistency and someone besides Rodney to score.

irving's defense last night was crap.

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 07:31:44 AM »
We lost because of turnovers, angel, and gip. I’d listen to blaming Sprads as well.   I suppose listing angel and gip after turnovers is duplicitous.  I’d also throw in missed opportunities, but they basically coincide with turnovers.  For example, we throw a baseball pass to Rodney who’s going to go in for an easy 2, but he can’t hold on to it.  We’re up 7, jamar (I think or it might have been Jo) misses an easy layup, Baylor gets it in transition and hits Whitey for a 3, cutting it to 4.  Down 1 with 58 seconds left, instead of gip making a simple bounce pass to jamar, he takes 7 steps.  Also, we were almost at the one/one mark at the 10/11 minute mark and we can’t do anything with that.  We looked like last year’s team when it was in a funk (i.e. when Jake wasn’t going batcrap crazy offensively).  Always finding a way to keep the other team around and/or lose it down the stretch.    Beyond frustrating.  I’d have traded A Brown dropping that interception for a McGruds’ 3 ball as the clock expired last night.

Offline kougar24

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 07:34:06 AM »
Tay was spectacular to begin the game, then pretty meh afterwards.

He wasn't meh. He simply wasn't given an opportunity to continue to be spectacular, because for some reason Frank thinks Angel is better than 'Tay (not yet, Frank).

As for Jamar, if you want to call him "fine," that's fine, but those missed bunnies are absolute killers. Recognizing that he'll go off for 25 against some unsuspecting foe in the coming weeks, I'm pretty much done with Jamar. Not because he's worse than some other players, but because as a senior he needs to be much better and more effective than he is now (suck it michigancat, he should be better despite your protestations to our expectations as opposed to Jamar's meh-ness).

Offline kougar24

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 07:36:35 AM »
Irving is never gonna be a high scorer for us. love his tough defense though and i feel fairly confident in him making a pretty easy mid range jumper or taking it to the rim. we just need a lot more consistency and someone besides Rodney to score.

irving's defense last night was crap.

I agree it took him a bit to adjust to the super high ball screen, but then again, it could actually have been the bigs screwing that up by not hedging. Notice in the 2nd half that the guards didn't change how they guarded that; the bigs started hedging so dramatically, it was practically a midcourt trap. That leads me to believe the halftime speech/adjustment was directed at the bigs guarding the screener, not 'Tay & Co.

Offline mcmwcat

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2012, 07:47:15 AM »
Baylor scored 18 pts in transition  :horrorsurprise:

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2012, 08:07:16 AM »
Tay was spectacular to begin the game, then pretty meh afterwards.

He wasn't meh. He simply wasn't given an opportunity to continue to be spectacular, because for some reason Frank thinks Angel is better than 'Tay (not yet, Frank).

As for Jamar, if you want to call him "fine," that's fine, but those missed bunnies are absolute killers. Recognizing that he'll go off for 25 against some unsuspecting foe in the coming weeks, I'm pretty much done with Jamar. Not because he's worse than some other players, but because as a senior he needs to be much better and more effective than he is now (suck it michigancat, he should be better despite your protestations to our expectations as opposed to Jamar's meh-ness).

You're being selective in your memory. Tay didn't have the silly TOs that Angel did (and likely wouldn't), but there several times in the 2nd half where he got dribble happy and either turned it over or bogged down the offense followed by Frank screaming at him "PASS THE BALL".

Always finding a way to keep the other team around and/or lose it down the stretch.

I'd say this is a bit selective as well. WVU and last night are fresh, and we did blow both of those games. But we've had plenty of games under Frank where we took control of the game in the last 5 minutes and won by comfortable margins. I'd be hard pressed a trait of Frank Martin teams is to lose close games or blow games down the stretch.

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2012, 08:16:38 AM »
Always finding a way to keep the other team around and/or lose it down the stretch.

I'd say this is a bit selective as well. WVU and last night are fresh, and we did blow both of those games. But we've had plenty of games under Frank where we took control of the game in the last 5 minutes and won by comfortable margins. I'd be hard pressed a trait of Frank Martin teams is to lose close games or blow games down the stretch.

that was in reference to our play during that "slide" last year.  i don't think that was selective at all.  during those times we were, generally, up in those games and then just fell apart and/or let it stlip away. games against cu come to mind.  same with unlv.   

Offline kougar24

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2012, 08:19:18 AM »
Tay was spectacular to begin the game, then pretty meh afterwards.

He wasn't meh. He simply wasn't given an opportunity to continue to be spectacular, because for some reason Frank thinks Angel is better than 'Tay (not yet, Frank).

As for Jamar, if you want to call him "fine," that's fine, but those missed bunnies are absolute killers. Recognizing that he'll go off for 25 against some unsuspecting foe in the coming weeks, I'm pretty much done with Jamar. Not because he's worse than some other players, but because as a senior he needs to be much better and more effective than he is now (suck it michigancat, he should be better despite your protestations to our expectations as opposed to Jamar's meh-ness).

You're being selective in your memory. Tay didn't have the silly TOs that Angel did (and likely wouldn't), but there several times in the 2nd half where he got dribble happy and either turned it over or bogged down the offense followed by Frank screaming at him "PASS THE BALL".

You know why he started dribbling? Because no one was moving or coming to the ball. 'Tay was plenty patient before finally putting the ball on the floor to avoid a 5-sec call and try to make something out of nothing, which is far more than you can say for Spradling last night. Spradling never saw a pass back to the point he didn't like.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2012, 08:28:16 AM »
Tay was spectacular to begin the game, then pretty meh afterwards.

He wasn't meh. He simply wasn't given an opportunity to continue to be spectacular, because for some reason Frank thinks Angel is better than 'Tay (not yet, Frank).

As for Jamar, if you want to call him "fine," that's fine, but those missed bunnies are absolute killers. Recognizing that he'll go off for 25 against some unsuspecting foe in the coming weeks, I'm pretty much done with Jamar. Not because he's worse than some other players, but because as a senior he needs to be much better and more effective than he is now (suck it michigancat, he should be better despite your protestations to our expectations as opposed to Jamar's meh-ness).

You're being selective in your memory. Tay didn't have the silly TOs that Angel did (and likely wouldn't), but there several times in the 2nd half where he got dribble happy and either turned it over or bogged down the offense followed by Frank screaming at him "PASS THE BALL".

You know why he started dribbling? Because no one was moving or coming to the ball. 'Tay was plenty patient before finally putting the ball on the floor to avoid a 5-sec call and try to make something out of nothing, which is far more than you can say for Spradling last night. Spradling never saw a pass back to the point he didn't like.

All of our guards played poorly or at least had poor stretches last night. And none played particularly well. I agree that with Irving in for Angel down the stretch we don't make those two turnovers, though the first one was him trying to create, which I can live with. But I don't agree that Tay played specatular outside the first 5-6 minutes of the game. He wasn't terrible, but he didn't do anything that stood out and he also made his fair share of mistakes. I also think its fair to acknowledge that Angel made several plays in building the 4 point lead at around the 4 minute mark.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2012, 09:43:33 AM »
Notable numbers from this game...

The slightly more than 1.1 points per possession allowed defensively is in the worst 17% of games played under Frank. The nearly 1.4 ppp in the 2nd half was terrible.

The nearly 30% TO rate for the game is in the worst 7% of games played under Frank. A rate of more than 1 TO for every 3 possessions in the 2nd half makes it really difficult to win.

For only the 7th time (in 65 games) under Frank K-State finished better than their opponent in both OR% and FT rate and lost a game. The Cats win nearly 90% of the time when this happens.

Offline puniraptor

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2012, 11:14:22 AM »
Baylor scored 18 pts in transition  :horrorsurprise:

Practically all easy lay-ins or spud slams after steals.  :bang:

Offline michigancat

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2012, 11:25:35 AM »
Martavious wouldn't have turned the ball over when angel did because he wouldn't have been handling the ball. Because he isn't good at it.

Offline Fuktard

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 11:40:24 AM »
I'm even more pissed off this morning than last night.  Why the eff did Angel try to throw a lob to Jamar on the last inbounds?  If we had .5 seconds, I get it, but we had over 3 seconds.  Acy was sitting on the lob.... and like Jamar could have finshed anyways had he gotten the pass.  Get the ball to Gruds who couldn't rough ridin' miss and let him win the game....horrible decision by Angel....one of so many I lost count.

Offline pissclams

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Re: You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2012, 12:05:13 PM »
our inbounds plays have sketchy all season.


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