Author Topic: BCS Odds  (Read 17182 times)

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Offline kim carnes

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2011, 09:11:55 PM »
Well, if I understood the BCS show correctly, should Houston win, the Sugar is down to Michigan and KSU, should Michigan become eligible.

Also, there are really only two games of relevance that probably impact Michigan's ability to get in: Big Ten Championship, SEC Championship.

With Michigan State sitting at 13, Georgia at 14, and Whisky at 15, it looks like Michigan is banking on sneaking up two spots with losses to two of those teams.  But, the problem is that if Whisky wins, they'll leapfrog Michigan, and Michigan lost to MSU, so that may hurt their computer poll numbers.

I think the chances are high Michigan gets into the Top 14, but it's probably going to be pretty close.

Another thing to consider is Baylor sitting out there at #17.  If Baylor can beat Texas, there is a chance Baylor can leapfrog Michigan in the human polls, and that would kill Michigan's chances at the BCS.

Need to hope voters don't penalize Georgia for losing to LSU.

Offline fatty fat fat

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2011, 09:15:52 PM »
Well, if I understood the BCS show correctly, should Houston win, the Sugar is down to Michigan and KSU, should Michigan become eligible.

Also, there are really only two games of relevance that probably impact Michigan's ability to get in: Big Ten Championship, SEC Championship.

With Michigan State sitting at 13, Georgia at 14, and Whisky at 15, it looks like Michigan is banking on sneaking up two spots with losses to two of those teams.  But, the problem is that if Whisky wins, they'll leapfrog Michigan, and Michigan lost to MSU, so that may hurt their computer poll numbers.

I think the chances are high Michigan gets into the Top 14, but it's probably going to be pretty close.

Another thing to consider is Baylor sitting out there at #17.  If Baylor can beat Texas, there is a chance Baylor can leapfrog Michigan in the human polls, and that would kill Michigan's chances at the BCS.

good point about baylor.

Offline Spaces

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2011, 09:21:23 PM »
On the show, were they just assuming OU would lose?

If they win, would they take our spot in the Sugar?

Offline kim carnes

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2011, 09:23:14 PM »
On the show, were they just assuming OU would lose?

If they win, would they take our spot in the Sugar?

If they win, they're going to the Fiesta.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2011, 09:32:16 PM »
Quote from: espn.com
Under BCS rules, a team must finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings to be considered for a BCS at-large berth -- unless there's only one team from its conference in the top 14. So if only one Big Ten team finishes in the top 14 of the final BCS standings, Michigan could still receive an at-large bid as long as it finishes in the top 18.

JFC, I hate the BCS.  Michigan may only have to finish in the top 18 if there is only one team from the Big 10 in the top 14.

Offline kstater

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Re: Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2011, 09:43:32 PM »
Quote from: espn.com
Under BCS rules, a team must finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings to be considered for a BCS at-large berth -- unless there's only one team from its conference in the top 14. So if only one Big Ten team finishes in the top 14 of the final BCS standings, Michigan could still receive an at-large bid as long as it finishes in the top 18.

JFC, I hate the BCS.  Michigan may only have to finish in the top 18 if there is only one team from the Big 10 in the top 14.
thats only if the 10 spots aren't fulfilled through the first 14.

Offline bigDcat

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2011, 09:44:47 PM »
Quote from: espn.com
Under BCS rules, a team must finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings to be considered for a BCS at-large berth -- unless there's only one team from its conference in the top 14. So if only one Big Ten team finishes in the top 14 of the final BCS standings, Michigan could still receive an at-large bid as long as it finishes in the top 18.

JFC, I hate the BCS.  Michigan may only have to finish in the top 18 if there is only one team from the Big 10 in the top 14.

Do you really believe the Sugar Bowl would choose a team outside of the top 14?


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Offline kim carnes

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2011, 09:48:19 PM »
Quote from: espn.com
Under BCS rules, a team must finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings to be considered for a BCS at-large berth -- unless there's only one team from its conference in the top 14. So if only one Big Ten team finishes in the top 14 of the final BCS standings, Michigan could still receive an at-large bid as long as it finishes in the top 18.

JFC, I hate the BCS.  Michigan may only have to finish in the top 18 if there is only one team from the Big 10 in the top 14.

Do you really believe the Sugar Bowl would choose a team outside of the top 14?


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Yes, if that teams is Michigan, who will be ranked #15 at the lowest.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2011, 09:54:45 PM »
Quote from: espn.com
Under BCS rules, a team must finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings to be considered for a BCS at-large berth -- unless there's only one team from its conference in the top 14. So if only one Big Ten team finishes in the top 14 of the final BCS standings, Michigan could still receive an at-large bid as long as it finishes in the top 18.

JFC, I hate the BCS.  Michigan may only have to finish in the top 18 if there is only one team from the Big 10 in the top 14.

This is the full rule on the BCS website:

Quote
If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

The way I interpret it is that if there are fewer than ten eligible teams overall, then they can expand out to eighteen, and the ten eligible include the auto-qualifiers.  So, they could theoretically expand out to 18 if we had six SEC teams in the Top 14 or something, but should OU beat OSU, and Boise stays where they are, that would technically put the total number of eligible teams in the Top 14 at ten should it shake out something like this:

1. LSU
2. Alabama
3. Virginia Tech
4. Stanford
5. Oklahoma
6. Houston
7. Boise St.
8. Oregon
9. Arkansas
10. Kansas State
11. Oklahoma State
12. South Carolina
13. Wisconsin
14. Georgia
15. Michigan

The strikethoughs would technically be the ineligibles.  Should Baylor get in at 14, it looks like they could expand out to 18.

God, it's like this system was made to get Michigan in.  But it would be a very ballsy move for the Sugar Bowl to pass up several top 14 teams to go get Michigan at 15 or 16.  That would end up creating like another K-State rule.

Or we could all just hope So. Miss just beats Houston and kicks out their undeserving selves and makes this whole conversation a moot point while we all buy tickets to New Orleans for a matchup with Michigan.



Offline Spaces

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2011, 09:55:06 PM »
On the show, were they just assuming OU would lose?

If they win, would they take our spot in the Sugar?

If they win, they're going to the Fiesta.

Sorry, I meant if OU wins, would OSU take our spot in the Sugar?

Offline Boom Roasted

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2011, 09:58:38 PM »
I want to beat the crap out of Michigan in New Orleans.   :lynchmob:

Offline CHONGS

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2011, 10:01:50 PM »
Quote from: espn.com
Under BCS rules, a team must finish in the top 14 of the final BCS standings to be considered for a BCS at-large berth -- unless there's only one team from its conference in the top 14. So if only one Big Ten team finishes in the top 14 of the final BCS standings, Michigan could still receive an at-large bid as long as it finishes in the top 18.

JFC, I hate the BCS.  Michigan may only have to finish in the top 18 if there is only one team from the Big 10 in the top 14.

This is the full rule on the BCS website:

Quote
If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

The way I interpret it is that if there are fewer than ten eligible teams overall, then they can expand out to eighteen, and the ten eligible include the auto-qualifiers.  So, they could theoretically expand out to 18 if we had six SEC teams in the Top 14 or something, but should OU beat OSU, and Boise stays where they are, that would technically put the total number of eligible teams in the Top 14 at ten should it shake out something like this:

1. LSU
2. Alabama
3. Virginia Tech
4. Stanford
5. Oklahoma
6. Houston
7. Boise St.
8. Oregon
9. Arkansas
10. Kansas State
11. Oklahoma State
12. South Carolina
13. Wisconsin
14. Georgia
15. Michigan

The strikethoughs would technically be the ineligibles.  Should Baylor get in at 14, it looks like they could expand out to 18.

God, it's like this system was made to get Michigan in.  But it would be a very ballsy move for the Sugar Bowl to pass up several top 14 teams to go get Michigan at 15 or 16.  That would end up creating like another K-State rule.

Or we could all just hope So. Miss just beats Houston and kicks out their undeserving selves and makes this whole conversation a moot point while we all buy tickets to New Orleans for a matchup with Michigan.



it was designed exactly to get a team like Michigan in, is this a surprise?

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2011, 10:14:26 PM »
it was designed exactly to get a team like Michigan in, is this a surprise?

No.  But, it's still disappointing nonetheless.

Offline slimz

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2011, 10:53:05 PM »
Quote
If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

With us and OU/OSU both in the Top 14, this would appear to force us to be picked ahead of Michigan at 15-18.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2011, 11:00:48 PM »
Quote
If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

With us and OU/OSU both in the Top 14, this would appear to force us to be picked ahead of Michigan at 15-18.

Good point, if Michigan isn't in top 14, we are golden.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2011, 11:05:31 PM »
Quote
If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

With us and OU/OSU both in the Top 14, this would appear to force us to be picked ahead of Michigan at 15-18.

Good point, if Michigan isn't in top 14, we are golden.

Thank God.

Alright, beat ISU, OU beat OSU, and somehow find some numerical oddity to keep Michigan out of the top 14 and we're looking at the greatest season in our history.

That settles it.  I'm not watching the ISU game.  I don't think I'll be able to stomach the nerves.

Offline ksu101

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2011, 11:31:46 PM »
Quote
If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

With us and OU/OSU both in the Top 14, this would appear to force us to be picked ahead of Michigan at 15-18.

Good point, if Michigan isn't in top 14, we are golden.

 

Thank God.

Alright, beat ISU, OU beat OSU, and somehow find some numerical oddity to keep Michigan out of the top 14 and we're looking at the greatest season in our history.

That settles it.  I'm not watching the ISU game.  I don't think I'll be able to stomach the nerves.

I cant help but think of Basketball season 2 years ago when we were in the top 10 and Iowa State ruined our senior day. Things turned out alright, but still very  :facepalm: that we lost to them. 

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2011, 02:07:33 AM »
So, because I am who I am, I did what I thought was the math on a lot of this, and it's going to be pretty hard for Michigan to get to #14 on a bye week. 

The BCS average to hit #14 fluctuates pretty significantly from week to week, so it's hard to lock down exactly what they'll need.  But it's safe to say they'll probably need to hit something around .4800 to get into the Top 14, and I'm kind of low-balling that (in my opinion).

Here's how the BCS is calculated:

*The Harris Poll, Coaches Poll, and Computer Rankings all get a third of a vote in terms of importance
*The Computer Rankings take six different polls, eliminate your highest and lowest values, and use the remaining four values to create a scoring metric where a first place ranking is worth 25 points and a twenty-fifth place ranking is worth one point.  You add those values together and divide by one-hundred to get your value.
*The Harris Poll and BCS poll metrics are based on your point total (i.e. votes) divided by the maximum number of votes.  Harris has 2,875 and the Coaches poll has 1,475
*At the end, all three of your metrics are added together and the average is your BCS number

I started with the computers because, well, that's where I started.  It turns out that Michigan can't move up much in any of them.  Right now, their point total is .410, and their max value there is probably .450 after you look at who is ahead of them in all of the polls.  Their computer numbers are really going to drag them down, and if Michigan State loses to Wisconsin, it hurts them even more because their loss looks worse to the computers.  And if Wisconsin loses that game, it just means Michigan State has either #12 or #13 in the BCS on lock down.

Once you get to the computer values, Michigan will need to gain a decent amount of votes in the Harris and Coaches polls.  Because Georgia sits at #12, and they face LSU in the title game, there's a chance they may not get penalized all that much with a loss.  And Baylor and TCU sit right behind Michigan, while KSU sits right in front of them.  There's a better than average chance, with Michigan's inactivity, that there will be a mish mash of teams in that 14-18 range there that are all stealing votes from one another, especially if TCU and Baylor win convincingly (along with KSU getting to ten wins).  Also, the odds of Georgia and the Big Ten champ dropping into that zone increase the odds of a much more even vote distribution in that space, making Michigan's odds of jumping two or three hundred votes pretty difficult.  They may jump a spot or two, but it won't be a gigantic vote increase, which is what they need in the calculations.

As far as the Coaches' Poll goes, they'll probably jump a spot if Georgia loses, but if Wisconsin wins the Big Ten title, Michigan State currently sits at #9, and it's highly unlikely that voters will drop Michigan State six or seven spots into a position behind a team they beat earlier this year.  So, if Whisky wins, Michigan may gain a few votes, but nowhere near what they actually need to move the BCS meter.

So, basically, Michigan needs nearly all of the games to fall their way, and they need MSU to win the Big Ten title.  If Wisconsin wins, it definitely hurts Michigan because they'll vault ahead of them in basically every way, and it will definitely hurt Michigan's computer values.  And Baylor, if they can beat Texas, stands a very serious chance of jumping Michigan and getting into the Top 14 because of how good their computer values are (and will be if they beat Texas), and how much movement they can gain in the human polls while Michigan sits at home and waits.

After breaking it down, even if Georgia loses, if Wisconsin and Baylor win next week, there's a better than average chance Michigan doesn't get into the Top 14, and we get an at-large into the Sugar Bowl, even after we get a share of the trophy with OSU and OU.


Offline 0.42

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2011, 02:19:22 AM »
So, because I am who I am, I did what I thought was the math on a lot of this, and it's going to be pretty hard for Michigan to get to #14 on a bye week. 

The BCS average to hit #14 fluctuates pretty significantly from week to week, so it's hard to lock down exactly what they'll need.  But it's safe to say they'll probably need to hit something around .4800 to get into the Top 14, and I'm kind of low-balling that (in my opinion).

Here's how the BCS is calculated:

*The Harris Poll, Coaches Poll, and Computer Rankings all get a third of a vote in terms of importance
*The Computer Rankings take six different polls, eliminate your highest and lowest values, and use the remaining four values to create a scoring metric where a first place ranking is worth 25 points and a twenty-fifth place ranking is worth one point.  You add those values together and divide by one-hundred to get your value.
*The Harris Poll and BCS poll metrics are based on your point total (i.e. votes) divided by the maximum number of votes.  Harris has 2,875 and the Coaches poll has 1,475
*At the end, all three of your metrics are added together and the average is your BCS number

I started with the computers because, well, that's where I started.  It turns out that Michigan can't move up much in any of them.  Right now, their point total is .410, and their max value there is probably .450 after you look at who is ahead of them in all of the polls.  Their computer numbers are really going to drag them down, and if Michigan State loses to Wisconsin, it hurts them even more because their loss looks worse to the computers.  And if Wisconsin loses that game, it just means Michigan State has either #12 or #13 in the BCS on lock down.

Once you get to the computer values, Michigan will need to gain a decent amount of votes in the Harris and Coaches polls.  Because Georgia sits at #12, and they face LSU in the title game, there's a chance they may not get penalized all that much with a loss.  And Baylor and TCU sit right behind Michigan, while KSU sits right in front of them.  There's a better than average chance, with Michigan's inactivity, that there will be a mish mash of teams in that 14-18 range there that are all stealing votes from one another, especially if TCU and Baylor win convincingly (along with KSU getting to ten wins).  Also, the odds of Georgia and the Big Ten champ dropping into that zone increase the odds of a much more even vote distribution in that space, making Michigan's odds of jumping two or three hundred votes pretty difficult.  They may jump a spot or two, but it won't be a gigantic vote increase, which is what they need in the calculations.

As far as the Coaches' Poll goes, they'll probably jump a spot if Georgia loses, but if Wisconsin wins the Big Ten title, Michigan State currently sits at #9, and it's highly unlikely that voters will drop Michigan State six or seven spots into a position behind a team they beat earlier this year.  So, if Whisky wins, Michigan may gain a few votes, but nowhere near what they actually need to move the BCS meter.

So, basically, Michigan needs nearly all of the games to fall their way, and they need MSU to win the Big Ten title.  If Wisconsin wins, it definitely hurts Michigan because they'll vault ahead of them in basically every way, and it will definitely hurt Michigan's computer values.  And Baylor, if they can beat Texas, stands a very serious chance of jumping Michigan and getting into the Top 14 because of how good their computer values are (and will be if they beat Texas), and how much movement they can gain in the human polls while Michigan sits at home and waits.

After breaking it down, even if Georgia loses, if Wisconsin and Baylor win next week, there's a better than average chance Michigan doesn't get into the Top 14, and we get an at-large into the Sugar Bowl, even after we get a share of the trophy with OSU and OU.




The hangover that all of us will feel when we lose to ISU and get relegated to the Insight Bowl will be worse than the collective pain of finishing 5-7


reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2011, 02:23:29 AM »
The hangover that all of us will feel when we lose to ISU and get relegated to the Insight Bowl will be worse than the collective pain of finishing 5-7


reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx reverse jinx

Honest to God, I'm thinking about going with my wife and son to a "Sid the Science Kid" pancake breakfast and meet and greet during the game because I know I'll be a wreck flipping back and forth between that and the C-USA championship game.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2011, 08:17:06 AM »
After breaking it down, even if Georgia loses, if Wisconsin and Baylor win next week, there's a better than average chance Michigan doesn't get into the Top 14, and we get an at-large into the Sugar Bowl, even after we get a share of the trophy with OSU and OU.

Better hope Georgia loses. Even if they win, it won't knock LSU or Alabama out of the NC (remember OU 2003?), which will mean the SEC takes 3 of the 10 BCS bids. All this speculation over Michigan will be irrelevant if Georgia takes another bid.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2011, 08:28:54 AM »
So, why does everyone think the Sugar Bowl will choose us over OSU? :dunno:

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2011, 08:50:46 AM »
Hey guys, stop worrying about the top 14 and it expanding to the top 18 to let Michigan in.  That is for the at-large pool only and you guys are forgetting that the Big East champ is already taking 1 of those 10 spot.  They won't have to expand outside of the top 14 because they only need 9 eligible teams in the top 14 to fill out the 5 bowls.  If you cross off 3 SEC teams and 1 Big12 team, that still leaves 10 teams with 1 to spare (Boise).

« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 08:56:22 AM by TheHamburglar »
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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2011, 09:25:02 AM »
Hey guys, stop worrying about the top 14 and it expanding to the top 18 to let Michigan in.  That is for the at-large pool only and you guys are forgetting that the Big East champ is already taking 1 of those 10 spot.  They won't have to expand outside of the top 14 because they only need 9 eligible teams in the top 14 to fill out the 5 bowls.  If you cross off 3 SEC teams and 1 Big12 team, that still leaves 10 teams with 1 to spare (Boise).



I'm not worried about the Top 18 stuff after reading this thread last night and some other stuff this morning.

I am concerned about Michigan getting into the Top 14.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: BCS Odds
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2011, 09:51:28 AM »
Hey dumbasses, stop worrying! I sent some of gma fannings homemade bread over to the sugar bowl reps, this crap is locked up! Thank me later at MOAP 2.5!  :gocho:
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 09:54:20 AM by fanningksu »