DC Chris Cosh....

[Fuktard]

It's time to fire this subject up again.  After an acceptable first half of the season our defense seems to be reverting back to last years abomination.  Our defensive numbers were helped greatly by ball control offense and limiting opponents possessions.  I was hopeful that changing schemes might have been the key but it's looking like more of the same.  I refuse to believe that we don't have the talent to be a top 50 defense, however I realize that playing in the Big 12 which sports some of the most prolific offenses in the country can play hell with our rankings.  What is acceptable?   Will Bill make a change if we end up 100+ again this year?

I really rough ridin' hate the guy....been a loser at every stop.  amirite?  

[doom]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

[kso_FAN]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

It's bad to say our defense is better because we have better players?

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

[Shacks]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

It's bad to say our defense is better because we have better players?

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

Cosh's coaching ability hasn't changed since last season.  He is still a journeyman type of coach: good enough to get jobs, bad enough to lose them after a few years.  The players have gotten better, and Arthur Brown replacing the slowest linebacker in the Big 12 (Hrebec) is the biggest improvement.  Malone has helped a lot too.  Walker, Kibble and Garrett getting another year under their belt has also improved the defense.

Put it this way - the guy driving our defense is still a horrible driver, he just looks like a better driver because he upgraded from a Yugo to an F150.  Snyder manages to make chicken salad out of chickenshit on offense, but when Cosh only has chickenshit to work with (like last season) he can only make...chickenshit.

[Bookcat]

If Tech can beat Oklahoma...KSU can beat Ostate. right?

[doom]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

It's bad to say our defense is better because we have better players?

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

Cosh's coaching ability hasn't changed since last season.  He is still a journeyman type of coach: good enough to get jobs, bad enough to lose them after a few years.  The players have gotten better, and Arthur Brown replacing the slowest linebacker in the Big 12 (Hrebec) is the biggest improvement.  Malone has helped a lot too.  Walker, Kibble and Garrett getting another year under their belt has also improved the defense.

Put it this way - the guy driving our defense is still a horrible driver, he just looks like a better driver because he upgraded from a Yugo to an F150.  Snyder manages to make chicken salad out of chickenshit on offense, but when Cosh only has chickenshit to work with (like last season) he can only make...chickenshit.

I had a similarly themed response typed, but I can't put this better.   

[Fuktard]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

It's bad to say our defense is better because we have better players?

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

I would be very happy with a top 50 scoring defense...is there any way that happens?  I thought every team set pretty much every possible offensive record against us last year but OU proved there are still records to be broken.  It's awesome to be the team that individuals set career numbers against.

[chum1]

top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense

while leading the nation in TOP 

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

It's bad to say our defense is better because we have better players?

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

Cosh's coaching ability hasn't changed since last season.  He is still a journeyman type of coach: good enough to get jobs, bad enough to lose them after a few years.  The players have gotten better, and Arthur Brown replacing the slowest linebacker in the Big 12 (Hrebec) is the biggest improvement.  Malone has helped a lot too.  Walker, Kibble and Garrett getting another year under their belt has also improved the defense.

Put it this way - the guy driving our defense is still a horrible driver, he just looks like a better driver because he upgraded from a Yugo to an F150.  Snyder manages to make chicken salad out of chickenshit on offense, but when Cosh only has chickenshit to work with (like last season) he can only make...chickenshit.

I'm all for dumping Cosh and finding someone better.  (Wait, would Snyder hire someone better?)  But there's some reason those guys improved as players from last season, right?  Isn't that part of coaching?  Does Cosh get credit for that?

[kso_FAN]

Cosh's coaching ability hasn't changed since last season.  He is still a journeyman type of coach: good enough to get jobs, bad enough to lose them after a few years.  The players have gotten better, and Arthur Brown replacing the slowest linebacker in the Big 12 (Hrebec) is the biggest improvement.  Malone has helped a lot too.  Walker, Kibble and Garrett getting another year under their belt has also improved the defense.

Put it this way - the guy driving our defense is still a horrible driver, he just looks like a better driver because he upgraded from a Yugo to an F150.  Snyder manages to make chicken salad out of chickenshit on offense, but when Cosh only has chickenshit to work with (like last season) he can only make...chickenshit.

I really don't disagree with anything you say here, but like I said, I will give him the season. If his defense has another extremely embarrassing performance against OSU and doesn't perform well enough to at least split with aTm/UT (or even worse to beat ISU), then I will be all for discussions about making a change at DC. And yes, the second half performance against OU was TERRIBLE, but I wouldn't fire anyone for one really, really bad half of football. Overall the defense hasn't always been pretty this year, but its still had a big part in being 7-1 right now.

[Rage Against the McKee]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

[kso_FAN]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

I agree with this.

My hope is that the defense improves enough that someone else comes calling and Cosh decides to leave because that is much more likely than Cosh being fired.

[fr@ck me]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

not bad enough because we have had a couple ST plays that saved us from losing, those don't go our way and you too would be calling for his head.

[kso_FAN]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

not bad enough because we have had a couple ST plays that saved us from losing, those don't go our way and you too would be calling for his head.

We have had no games where only one phase of the game won us the game. (or lost us the game for that matter). It really doesn't make any logical sense to me to say that the defense is only better because we have better players or to say that we've only won because of special teams and offense in the 7 (seven) wins we have.

[Shacks]

What I hate is how people have let him slide this year.  Our defense is only better because we have A. Brown. 

It's bad to say our defense is better because we have better players?

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

Cosh's coaching ability hasn't changed since last season.  He is still a journeyman type of coach: good enough to get jobs, bad enough to lose them after a few years.  The players have gotten better, and Arthur Brown replacing the slowest linebacker in the Big 12 (Hrebec) is the biggest improvement.  Malone has helped a lot too.  Walker, Kibble and Garrett getting another year under their belt has also improved the defense.

Put it this way - the guy driving our defense is still a horrible driver, he just looks like a better driver because he upgraded from a Yugo to an F150.  Snyder manages to make chicken salad out of chickenshit on offense, but when Cosh only has chickenshit to work with (like last season) he can only make...chickenshit.

I'm all for dumping Cosh and finding someone better.  (Wait, would Snyder hire someone better?)  But there's some reason those guys improved as players from last season, right?  Isn't that part of coaching?  Does Cosh get credit for that?

Player improvement from year to year is part coaching (Cosh and the positional coaches get credit for that), part experience and part physical growth (these guys are still at an age where they make significant gains in speed, size, strength each offseason).  But a defensive coordinator needs to be able to coordinate a defense - otherwise he should just stick to positional coaching.  Cosh has not shown the ability to make a defense that is greater than the sum of its parts.  I realize that is a tough task, but it's required at K-State because the sum of our parts isn't anywhere close to teams like Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

Cosh should get the rest of the season, but unless he can magically improve enough for our defense to put up respectable performances against Oklahoma State, A&M and whoever we play in the bowl game, he needs to be replaced.  There is a large enough sample size to predict that OSU will have their way with our defense while A&M will put up at least 35.

[felix rex]

To the point of the thread, if OSU puts up embarrassing numbers, yes the discussion is warranted. Evrn then he still should get the season though, finish top 50 in scoring and points and top 20 in run defense and I'd find it hard to fire Cosh.

That's gonna put a lot of pressure on our Texas and Iowa State games. After the next two games, we could easily be in the 85-90 range in both total and scoring defense and last in passing defense.

But, as was already pointed out:

if that happens, cosh will get fired, for sure.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The defense is mediocre this year, but that's light years better than last year's defense, which was one of the worst defenses I've ever seen. I don't like Cosh, and he should never have been given a pass for last year and been allowed to stay on staff. However, given the improvement, I won't be nearly as pissed this offseason when no changes are made as I was last offseason.

[mcmwcat]

mods please merge w/ fire snyder/cosh master thread

[fr@ck me]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

not bad enough because we have had a couple ST plays that saved us from losing, those don't go our way and you too would be calling for his head.

We have had no games where only one phase of the game won us the game. (or lost us the game for that matter). It really doesn't make any logical sense to me to say that the defense is only better because we have better players or to say that we've only won because of special teams and offense in the 7 (seven) wins we have.

come back after game 12 when our D stats will have dropped significantly from the start of the year due to playing competition.  Then you will see how bad our D really is.  Like has been stated in the previous threads we aren't playing the best teams yet but still getting out gained by all of them except KU and other crappy teams...

[Rage Against the McKee]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

not bad enough because we have had a couple ST plays that saved us from losing, those don't go our way and you too would be calling for his head.

We have had no games where only one phase of the game won us the game. (or lost us the game for that matter). It really doesn't make any logical sense to me to say that the defense is only better because we have better players or to say that we've only won because of special teams and offense in the 7 (seven) wins we have.

come back after game 12 when our D stats will have dropped significantly from the start of the year due to playing competition.  Then you will see how bad our D really is.  Like has been stated in the previous threads we aren't playing the best teams yet but still getting out gained by all of them except KU and other crappy teams...

Texas Tech, Baylor, and Missouri are among the best offenses in the nation. Anybody who can't see that the defense is greatly improved must be blind. We aren't good defensively, but we are no longer abysmal. At least there has been some progress.

[Fuktard]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

not bad enough because we have had a couple ST plays that saved us from losing, those don't go our way and you too would be calling for his head.

We have had no games where only one phase of the game won us the game. (or lost us the game for that matter). It really doesn't make any logical sense to me to say that the defense is only better because we have better players or to say that we've only won because of special teams and offense in the 7 (seven) wins we have.

come back after game 12 when our D stats will have dropped significantly from the start of the year due to playing competition.  Then you will see how bad our D really is.  Like has been stated in the previous threads we aren't playing the best teams yet but still getting out gained by all of them except KU and other crappy teams...

Texas Tech, Baylor, and Missouri are among the best offenses in the nation. Anybody who can't see that the defense is greatly improved must be blind. We aren't good defensively, but we are no longer abysmal. At least there has been some progress.

I agree with this and am not debating whether our defense is better...i know it is...hell A Brown immediately makes the d better.  My argument is that we have the talent to at least be a top 50 defense...are we?

[Rage Against the McKee]

This season hasn't been bad enough for me to start crying for Cosh's head, especially given the improvement from last season. That said, I would prefer getting somebody else.

not bad enough because we have had a couple ST plays that saved us from losing, those don't go our way and you too would be calling for his head.

We have had no games where only one phase of the game won us the game. (or lost us the game for that matter). It really doesn't make any logical sense to me to say that the defense is only better because we have better players or to say that we've only won because of special teams and offense in the 7 (seven) wins we have.

come back after game 12 when our D stats will have dropped significantly from the start of the year due to playing competition.  Then you will see how bad our D really is.  Like has been stated in the previous threads we aren't playing the best teams yet but still getting out gained by all of them except KU and other crappy teams...

Texas Tech, Baylor, and Missouri are among the best offenses in the nation. Anybody who can't see that the defense is greatly improved must be blind. We aren't good defensively, but we are no longer abysmal. At least there has been some progress.

I agree with this and am not debating whether our defense is better...i know it is...hell A Brown immediately makes the d better.  My argument is that we have the talent to at least be a top 50 defense...are we?

Probably not. To be fair, though, most teams do not have to face the kind of offenses that we do. Our defense is capable of shutting down teams with shitty offenses. Like I said earlier, I don't like Cosh and got pretty bent out of shape over him not being fired after last season. This season just hasn't been horrible enough for me to call for his head, but if we were to replace him, I would be happy (assuming we don't go out and get somebody like Tibesar).

[Shacks]

In the Week 10 What to Watch For article, Rivals said the coordinator chess match of the week is OSU OC Todd Monken vs KSU DC Chris Cosh.  Cosh is a checkers player sitting at a chess table.

"Cosh's unit was torched last week by Oklahoma, and now here comes Oklahoma State, which has a rushing attack better than Oklahoma's. Monken is in his first season as the Cowboys' coordinator and has meshed well with QB Brandon Weeden. Cosh needs his offense to control the clock and hog the ball, but he also has to find a way to get consistent pressure on Weeden. K-State didn't get to Oklahoma QB Landry Jones once last week, and Jones threw for 505 yards and five TDs."

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1286539

[O-town Kat]

If Cosh does not return that old balls DB coach becomes DC.

[_33]

Our special teams has been amazing this year. Could we promote Sean to DC if we fire Cosh?