Author Topic: KU's 3-4 front 7 (Read 3211 times)

smurfinator6 · « **on:** July 30, 2011, 11:28:23 PM »

3 undersized NTs (2 Sr, 1 Jr)
5 undersized DEs (2 So, 2 rFr, 1 tFr)
19 LBs (1 Sr, 4 Jr, 5 So, 3 rFr, 6 tFr)

Here's some measurables for their line:

NT
Patrick Dorsey 6-0, 273, Sr
Richard Johnson 6-3, 283, Sr
John Williams 6-3, 305, Jr

DE
Keba Agostinho 6-3, 253, So
Kevin Young 6-4, 275, So
Julius Green 6-7, 270, rFr
Pat Lewandowski 6-6, 265, rFr
Ben Goodman 6-3, 245, Fr

The ideal mathematical ratio for ku's 27 players in a 3-4 would round out 4 NT, 8 DE, and 15 LB. Are they serious about this move? It appears so: http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2011/7/27/2297148/kansas-football-making-the-move-to-the-3-4-on-defense

doom · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2011, 11:37:48 PM »

Quote from: smurfinator6 on July 30, 2011, 11:28:23 PM

3 undersized NTs (2 Sr, 1 Jr)
5 undersized DEs (2 So, 2 rFr, 1 tFr)
19 LBs (1 Sr, 4 Jr, 5 So, 3 rFr, 6 tFr)

Here's some measurables for their line:

NT
Patrick Dorsey 6-0, 273, Sr
Richard Johnson 6-3, 283, Sr
John Williams 6-3, 305, Jr

DE
Keba Agostinho 6-3, 253, So
Kevin Young 6-4, 275, So
Julius Green 6-7, 270, rFr
Pat Lewandowski 6-6, 265, rFr
Ben Goodman 6-3, 245, Fr

The ideal mathematical ratio for ku's 27 players in a 3-4 would round out 4 NT, 8 DE, and 15 LB. Are they serious about this move? It appears so: http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2011/7/27/2297148/kansas-football-making-the-move-to-the-3-4-on-defense

Did he get Ron's binder on craig's list or something?

Panjandrum · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2011, 11:38:46 PM »

It's scary how "Ron" this move is.

Scary smart that is.

DQ12 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2011, 11:46:07 PM »

Quote from: smurfinator6 on July 30, 2011, 11:28:23 PM

3 undersized NTs (2 Sr, 1 Jr)
5 undersized DEs (2 So, 2 rFr, 1 tFr)
19 LBs (1 Sr, 4 Jr, 5 So, 3 rFr, 6 tFr)

Here's some measurables for their line:

NT
Patrick Dorsey 6-0, 273, Sr
Richard Johnson 6-3, 283, Sr
John Williams 6-3, 305, Jr

DE
Keba Agostinho 6-3, 253, So
Kevin Young 6-4, 275, So
Julius Green 6-7, 270, rFr
Pat Lewandowski 6-6, 265, rFr
Ben Goodman 6-3, 245, Fr

The ideal mathematical ratio for ku's 27 players in a 3-4 would round out 4 NT, 8 DE, and 15 LB. Are they serious about this move? It appears so: http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2011/7/27/2297148/kansas-football-making-the-move-to-the-3-4-on-defense

In fairness, 6'3 305 lbs isn't really an undersized anything.

Cire · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2011, 11:50:44 PM »

if that's what he's listed at he's 6 1 285.

smurfinator6 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2011, 12:16:54 AM »

[/quote]
In fairness, 6'3 305 lbs isn't really an undersized anything.
[/quote]

Quite true. Next season, none of their 1 nose tackles will be undersized.

smurfinator6 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2011, 12:19:31 AM »

The silver lining for ku is, all six of their true freshmen linebackers should be able to redshirt. Sadly, their lone true freshman lineman likely won't have that luxury.

Dugout DickStone · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2011, 01:01:32 AM »

Grince, you beautiful bastard.

wabash909 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2011, 07:37:28 AM »

You can accuse Grince of a lot of things, not having a plan isn't one them.

kostakio · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2011, 09:00:44 AM »

It is very Ron like much like him I think they are only doing it because they don't have enough DT's to run a 4-3. You won't hear them say it but it's got to be the case. They didn't even run a 4-3 in the spring they're switching now at the start of fall camp.

fatty fat fat · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2011, 09:16:19 AM »

i always felt the 3-4 was a great idea. more LB's = more "missles" to blitz with.

Bookcat · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2011, 11:45:55 AM »

Quote from: fatty fat fat on July 31, 2011, 09:16:19 AM

i always felt the 3-4 was a great idea. more LB's = more "missles" to blitz with.

only if you have a "Fatafehi" on the line. Otherwise, the missles will never hit their target.

jtksu · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2011, 12:35:32 PM »

3-4 is great if you have some 330 lb nose who can eat up 3 blockers and one large DE who is great against the run. Having a small line (like we always did with Prince) doesn't work because your LBs always have multiple blockers to shed and they get picked up on blitzes by unoccupied blockers.

kostakio · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2011, 01:33:14 PM »

We never had much speed at LB either when we played the 3-4. Maybe a bit for the start of the first year then we had like one injury to Antwon Moore and we were done. The same thing is going to happen to KU. They're talking how great their LB's are and how much speed they have but as soon as they get one guy hurt then they'll be in trouble because they have maybe two or three fast LB's and that is it. Their LB's were slower then ours last year and that is saying something.

jtksu · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2011, 04:23:45 PM »

That Heeney kid they're bring in from Hutch could be very good for them. He's undersized but probably big enough to line up outside.

smurfinator6 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2011, 04:39:12 PM »

Quote from: kostakio on July 31, 2011, 09:00:44 AM

It is very Ron like much like him I think they are only doing it because they don't have enough DT's to run a 4-3. You won't hear them say it but it's got to be the case. They didn't even run a 4-3 in the spring they're switching now at the start of fall camp.

If a team doesn't have enough interior linemen for a 4-3, they don't have enough for a 3-4, either, because 3-4 defensive ends are interior linemen, not edge rushers. By switching to a 3-4, they now have their only 3 experienced interior linemen competing for one spot on the field. Their 5 inexperienced 4-3 strong-side defensive ends are competing for two interior lineman spots on the field. Not only that, they are also somehow magically putting more speed on the field by moving their weak-side 4-3 defensive ends to linebacker. Buffoonery, I tell you.

kostakio · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2011, 09:19:02 PM »

Quote from: smurfinator6 on July 31, 2011, 04:39:12 PM

Quote from: kostakio on July 31, 2011, 09:00:44 AM
It is very Ron like much like him I think they are only doing it because they don't have enough DT's to run a 4-3. You won't hear them say it but it's got to be the case. They didn't even run a 4-3 in the spring they're switching now at the start of fall camp.

If a team doesn't have enough interior linemen for a 4-3, they don't have enough for a 3-4, either, because 3-4 defensive ends are interior linemen, not edge rushers. By switching to a 3-4, they now have their only 3 experienced interior linemen competing for one spot on the field. Their 5 inexperienced 4-3 strong-side defensive ends are competing for two interior lineman spots on the field. Not only that, they are also somehow magically putting more speed on the field by moving their weak-side 4-3 defensive ends to linebacker. Buffoonery, I tell you.

I don't disagree with any of this. It looks like they have several tweener types that are smallish for DT but probably not explosive enough to play end in a 4-3. They mentioned they tried Lendowski and Young as 4-3 DT's in the spring and they didn't workout there. I guess they think they'll be better fits as 3-4 DE's. When you're stuck with a bunch of Peyton Kirk types like they are I don't know what you're suppossed to do.

When we played 3-4 we at least had a guy like Rob Jackson that made an NFL roster and Ian Campbell who made a practice squad and had a double digit sack season in the big 12. Obviously we sucked anyway with those guys but KU doesn't have a down defensive lineman that will so much get a phone call from an NFL team and they're trying to run the 3-4.

Stevesie60 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2011, 09:32:34 PM »

kostakio, I hope you stick around. Are you a former GPC'r?

Emo EMAW · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:12:14 AM »

Stopping 3rd and shorts is way too hard with the 3-4.

MeatSauce · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2011, 10:20:03 AM »

Quote from: Dlew12 on July 30, 2011, 11:46:07 PM

Quote from: smurfinator6 on July 30, 2011, 11:28:23 PM
3 undersized NTs (2 Sr, 1 Jr)
5 undersized DEs (2 So, 2 rFr, 1 tFr)
19 LBs (1 Sr, 4 Jr, 5 So, 3 rFr, 6 tFr)

Here's some measurables for their line:

NT
Patrick Dorsey 6-0, 273, Sr
Richard Johnson 6-3, 283, Sr
John Williams 6-3, 305, Jr

DE
Keba Agostinho 6-3, 253, So
Kevin Young 6-4, 275, So
Julius Green 6-7, 270, rFr
Pat Lewandowski 6-6, 265, rFr
Ben Goodman 6-3, 245, Fr

The ideal mathematical ratio for ku's 27 players in a 3-4 would round out 4 NT, 8 DE, and 15 LB. Are they serious about this move? It appears so: http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2011/7/27/2297148/kansas-football-making-the-move-to-the-3-4-on-defense

In fairness, 6'3 305 lbs isn't really an undersized anything.

true. but in this case, being 6'3, 305 would be like being the Valedictorian at Lebo High School.

The Manhatter · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2011, 10:26:25 AM »

saw an interview with Nick Saban recently about the 3-4. Bama is one of the few teams in the NCAA who run it but even then he said the offense dictates what you line up and last year they only ran it about 20% of the time even when it was the base defense. He said not a lot of college programs use it because it's based on whether you have the personnel to run it. His DTs (3-4 DEs) are in the 280 to 300 range. His LBs are all above 240.

Your NT doesn't have to be 330 (bama's this year is just a shade over 300 though they do have a 330lb monster from Juco coming in....Dallas Cowboys ran it w/ a 305lb dude last year in Jay Ratliff). Listened to an NFL guy talking about it on Keitzman since Chiefs run it...he was saying "bigger is better"..used the analogy of a lightweight fighting a heavyweight. You can be a pretty good lightweight but you shouldn't be in the ring with heavyweights.

If you have the personnel it's hell to move the ball against in the college game but that is the rub...getting the personnel, especially for a program like Kansas, is problematic.

Your nose had better be a bastard and evil strong. The DEs are glorified DTs and you would prefer they can move. The LBs need to some girth and ability to play in space (big problem moving Ian Campbell because he couldn't do things in space when we moved to the 3-4).