Author Topic: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .  (Read 3025 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« on: May 22, 2011, 05:54:33 PM »
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3914bd36-8467-11e0-afcb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1N7mzDeDj


Pakistan turns to China for naval base

By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad and Kathrin Hille in Beijing

Published: May 22 2011 13:22 | Last updated: May 22 2011 19:46

Pakistan has asked China to build a naval base at its south-western port of Gwadar and expects the Chinese navy to maintain a regular presence there, a plan likely to alarm both India and the US.

“We have asked our Chinese brothers to please build a naval base at Gwadar,” Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar, Pakistan’s defence minister, told the Financial Times, confirming that the request was conveyed to China during a visit last week by Yusuf Raza Gilani, Pakistan’s prime minister.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Militants target aircraft at Karachi naval base - May-22
Islamabad splurges on defence hardware - May-22
Pakistan ISI in spotlight over Mumbai raid - May-22
In depth: Pakistan - Nov-20
Show of support as China hosts Pakistan PM - May-19
Opinion: America must hug Pakistan ever closer - May-18

Hitherto, China has shied away from moves that might alienate the US and Beijing’s neighbours, such as India, Malaysia and Indonesia. “China’s rise is a beneficial force for peace and we have no hegemonic ambitions,” said a Chinese official familiar with Beijing’s security policy.

But Christopher Yung, senior research fellow at National Defense University in Washington, said in a recent paper “the nature and degree of China’s access to out-of-area bases will be the ultimate indication and warning” of its eventual intention to become a global military power. A Pentagon official said: “We have questions and concerns about this development and [China’s] intentions. But that is why we believe it is important to have a healthy, stable and continuous military-to-military relationship.”

A senior Pakistani official familiar with Sino-Pakistani discussions on naval co-operation said: “The naval base is something we hope will allow Chinese vessels to regularly visit in [the] future and also use the place for repair and maintenance of their fleet in the [Indian Ocean region].”

Such a foothold would be the first overseas location offering support to the People’s Liberation Army navy for future out-of-area missions and so would be likely to reinforce international concerns over Beijing’s longer-term military ambitions.

“This will definitely be a ‘game changer’ in China’s defence and security relationships,” said Rahul Roy-Chaudhury, a south Asia security expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies. “The construction of a naval base in Gwadar would provide its own ships and possibly submarines with ‘permanent’ basing rights, along with the possibility of regular patrols and exercises in the Arabian Sea to protect the growing number of Chinese-flagged oil tankers traversing the region to meet its increasing energy demands from the Gulf region.”

As anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden have made the PLA Navy aware that it lacks port access for restocking with food and water, swapping staff and maintenance, the force is lobbying for the construction of foreign bases.

The proposed port could meet some of the PLA navy’s needs but is less aggressive than a Chinese-owned base on foreign soil. The existing commercial port at Gwadar was built by China but is run by the Singapore Port Authority. But it could antagonise India as it comes amid a strengthening of China’s military ties with Pakistan.

During Mr Gilani’s visit last week, Beijing agreed to accelerate delivery of 50 fighter jets to Pakistan

Pakistan’s defence officials are keen for the PLA Navy to build up its presence in the Indian Ocean and the northern Arabia sea, mainly to counterbalance India’s naval forces.

Additional reporting by Daniel Dombey in Washington


(Want to get rid of the ad? Register now for free!)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 05:56:49 PM by sonofdaxjones »

Offline pike

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 5138
  • BIG GREEN EGG!!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 06:05:19 PM »
Glad we pissed of Pakistan, now they're playing butt buddies with the people that own like 1/4 of our debt

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 08:52:08 AM »
The U.S. wants Pakistan broken up into 4 or 5 seperate countries, of which several would be controlled by the sects of the Taliban that we are now negotiating with.   We are also getting more in bed with India, and their version of the CIA is all over that border region trying to create problems so as to provide a pre-text for the U.S. to de-nuke Pakistan. 


Offline 06wildcat

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1663
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 10:55:59 AM »
The U.S. wants Pakistan broken up into 4 or 5 seperate countries, of which several would be controlled by the sects of the Taliban that we are now negotiating with.   We are also getting more in bed with India, and their version of the CIA is all over that border region trying to create problems so as to provide a pre-text for the U.S. to de-nuke Pakistan. 



Glad to see Ralph Peters is still getting love for an article written 5 years ago.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 12:32:14 PM »
Why does everything have to happen overnight in your world 06??

But China . . . you know "paper tiger" and all that, no need to worry about them.   Yet every real expert says that China is getting more and more aggressive militarily. 




Offline 06wildcat

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1663
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 12:50:50 PM »
Why does everything have to happen overnight in your world 06??

But China . . . you know "paper tiger" and all that, no need to worry about them.   Yet every real expert says that China is getting more and more aggressive militarily. 



Well border change is the fringe of neo-conservatism, and the big uproar you are talking about came from an article Ralph Peters wrote with an attached graphic showing what the new borders would look like. This was manipulated by foreign governments, and apparently you, as the actual position of the U.S. government.


Glad you need to find real experts to back up the blindingly obvious. China is getting more aggressive. Now if we stop all defense research for the next century and China keeps expanding, we'll be about equal.

Care to take a guess at what semi-recent event led to China becoming incredibly interested in an advanced military?

Offline LickNeckey

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 6067
  • #fakeposts
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 01:43:01 PM »
why couldn't/shouldn't china expand it's military???   what reasonable person didn't forsee this coming???

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 03:10:49 PM »
Probably shooting down Sats . . . but  you can trace control of Pakistan, energy routes, etc. etc.  In Central Asia back a number of years, and yes, given the influence of certain factions on the Oval Office, it's not the least bit nutty to believe that was policy.  Just because life long policy wonks and propellor heads in the State Department aren't writing white papers about it, doesn't mean it can't be an endgame.   

But I get it, you live in a beautiful little world where the endgame is to simply get the terra-ists and then come home.   




Offline jtksu

  • definitely not a racist piece of shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3673
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 05:01:02 PM »
How many layers of aluminum foil do you use to make your helmet, Dax?

Offline pike

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 5138
  • BIG GREEN EGG!!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 05:11:31 PM »
why couldn't/shouldn't china expand it's military???   what reasonable person didn't forsee this coming???

If I  were another country and saw how out of control the US government is with it's military, I'd be dumping billions upon billions into mobilizing an army.

Can't blame them.

Offline 06wildcat

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1663
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 07:14:39 PM »
why couldn't/shouldn't china expand it's military???   what reasonable person didn't forsee this coming???

If I  were another country and saw how out of control the US government is with it's military, I'd be dumping billions upon billions into mobilizing an army.

Can't blame them.

China's standing army is no problem, and they thought that sheer numbers (people and tanks etc.) were enough to ward off all but a direct nuclear attack. That lasted till 2003 when Bush took our incredibly advanced military out for a spin and the Chinese watched U.S. troops marching to Baghdad is less than a week.

Everything between Shock and Awe and the surge was a clusterfuck, but man did we have an invasion plan. So much so that the Chinese started to re-evaluate what it needed in terms of defense etc.

Which has led to this point, where China is still playing catchup and still falling behind, but has done enough that they're now the No. 2 country in the world.

I can't tell if Dax is pissed that China is doing what China does best in copying the American way of developing strategic partners/supply lines or if Dax is pissed that no one is outraged by his incredibly obvious insights into the situation that took 7 years to develop.

Offline wiley

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2186
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 08:35:28 PM »
China is doing what China does best in copying the American way of developing strategic partners/supply lines

man this takes me back to junior high social studies, those effing chinese.
it's easy to be emaw when EMAW is at your doorstep - FFF

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 09:00:07 PM »
06 . . . you're wanting to turn a game in geo-strategery into a "who has the best fighter plane" pissing contest.   I think youtube is more your speed.

jt . . . why is reality a tinfoil hat situation?


Offline 06wildcat

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1663
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 09:30:04 PM »
06 . . . you're wanting to turn a game in geo-strategery into a "who has the best fighter plane" pissing contest.   I think youtube is more your speed.

jt . . . why is reality a tinfoil hat situation?



True, with youtube some of the videos are actually original and offer something I might not have thought of before.

But you keep finding those real experts that claim China is getting more aggressive militarily. Sounds like people with multiple doctorates and stuff. Have you read/heard anything on where in the sky the sun will rise tomorrow?

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 09:57:48 PM »
Get your fear while it's hot, folks!


 :ohno:

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 06:38:15 AM »
OH . . . if anyone is spreading fear it's your own ilk, remember now, if you see something, say something, stay tuned for Big Sis. 

Hey 06, it appears the Russians are talking about abandoning the latest SALT accord already . . . I wonder why, then again, the Chinese just said that the Sino-Russian relationship is as strong as ever, and we keep putting in those darn ABM systems in Eastern Europe and using NATO to pull in nearly all the former Soviet territories in.

The primary point is, the war on terra is just a cover story for U.S. global hegemony.


 


Offline Saulbadguy

  • Administrator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 9941
  • what
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2011, 08:27:52 AM »
China isn't a threat. We are at each others teets.
Where did you get that overnight bag?

Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 06:07:15 PM »
China isn't a threat. We are at each others teets.



Exactly, and the United State's military is still much more powerful than China's.  It's funny... each time China tries to flex their military muscle, they end up shooting themselves in the foot. 

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 53340
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2011, 06:48:50 PM »
This has nothing to do with military confrontation . . .  :facepalm:




Offline OregonSmock

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 8512
  • Mashing 'taters like an Old Country Buffet
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 10:03:29 PM »
This has nothing to do with military confrontation . . .  :facepalm:




Who said anything about "confrontation?"  It's obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that this thread is nothing more than an attempt to perpetuate fear by a closet right wing Republican.

Offline Saulbadguy

  • Administrator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 9941
  • what
    • View Profile
Re: Yep, "paper tiger" and all that stuff . . .
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2011, 08:55:26 AM »
military confrontation with China = god help us
Where did you get that overnight bag?