Football Recruiting Thread

[DQ12]

This thread took a weird turn.

[EMAW4life-JHL]

Bill has never been an outstanding recruiter in terms of stars. Why do we care that that changes all of a sudden?

[steve dave]

Bill has never been an outstanding recruiter in terms of stars. Why do we care that that changes all of a sudden?

bullshit.  kstate recruited very highly rated talent in the 90s....then Bob, Mike, Brent, Jim, etc. left.

[Benja]

Catzacker is trying to make weird points

[Belvis Noland]

Judging Bill's recruiting in terms of stars is pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  He's made a career out of putting 2-3* guys in the NFL.  

Where I think we should be judging his recruiting is by position and in-state dominance.  

Back in the DOD we had plenty of 2-3* studs.  But, we also locked down the state - took the best Kansas athletes.  We also had very good QBs and very physical defenses.  

Around 2002, 2003, we entirely failed to land any quality QB or size on the D-line.  In 2004, 2005, we started seeing the results.  

If Bill can keep pulling in big JuCo dudes like Kibble and Rooks and bring in QBs like Sams, I think we'll be a solid program again.  

[michigancat]

Bill has never been an outstanding recruiter in terms of stars. Why do we care that that changes all of a sudden?

bullshit.  kstate recruited very highly rated talent in the 90s....then Bob, Mike, Brent, Jim, etc. left.

I remember listening to Al Eshbach on 640 AM the Sports Animal right after the mass exodus. He was big into recruiting. Followed "the Midlands". I remember he was obsessed with KSU, and he was talking about a big downward trend in KSU recruiting during this time. Just because Rivals didn't exist in its current doesn't mean KSU wasn't kicking ass at recruiting.

[Benja]

Back in the DOD we had plenty of 2-3* studs.  But, we also locked down the state - took the best Kansas athletes.  We also had very good QBs and very physical defenses.   

We also took basically any juco we wanted

[catzacker]

Is Frank's recruiting better than:  KU, UT, Baylor, OSU?  If it's not, then he'd be 5th...in a 10 team league.  which would be average.  

Is Bill's recruiting better than UT, TT, Baylor, OSU, OU, TCU, and WVU? If not, he's 8th...in a 10 team league. which would be below average.

good catch, rusty, forgot WVU.  so we've got Frank sitting pretty @ 6th, Snyds @ 8....marginal difference.  but let's all thow parties for frank because marcus smart mentioned us like 3 years ago.

[Benja]

Judging Bill's recruiting in terms of stars is pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  He's made a career out of putting 2-3* guys in the NFL. 

How many nfl guys are on this years team? the talent level comparison from now to the DOD isnt even close, obviously.

[michigancat]

Judging Bill's recruiting in terms of stars is pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  He's made a career out of putting 2-3* guys in the NFL.  

Where I think we should be judging his recruiting is by position and in-state dominance.  

According to the Rivals state rankings, Bill hasn't landed anyone higher than the 4th best player in Kansas since his return.

Is Frank's recruiting better than:  KU, UT, Baylor, OSU?  If it's not, then he'd be 5th...in a 10 team league.  which would be average. 

Is Bill's recruiting better than UT, TT, Baylor, OSU, OU, TCU, and WVU? If not, he's 8th...in a 10 team league. which would be below average.

good catch, rusty, forgot WVU.  so we've got Frank sitting pretty @ 6th, Snyds @ 8....marginal difference.  but let's all thow parties for frank because marcus smart mentioned us like 3 years ago.

Frank is about equal to Huggs right now. Just like Snyder is about equal to Turner and Rhodes. Who knows about Weiss.

[sonofdaxjones]

The recruiting isn't anywhere close to the same level it was at the height of Snyder I.

When I see 3 K-State Linebackers all standing the together for a picture on the front page of a national football magazine, with captaion "The Best Linebacking Corp in the Country" next to the picture, then I'll believe that we're recruiting at the same level as the pinnacle of Snyder I.

[wazucat]

Hey our recruiting is better this year than last and far better than the Prince transition year, still no where near DOD standards though.    Get a little better every day WRSOAT.   

[Rams]

Welp, just like clockwork the tucks have dusted off the annual "Stars Don't Matter" debate amongst themselves to defend our piss poor recruiting.

Hey, why settle for first when second is available, right?

**long copy and paste from GoPo**

WichitaCat rubs me the wrong way and has a tenancy to be incredibly tuckish, but he does make some solid arguments about recruiting rankings following success rather than predicting it.   

[michigancat]

Welp, just like clockwork the tucks have dusted off the annual "Stars Don't Matter" debate amongst themselves to defend our piss poor recruiting.

Hey, why settle for first when second is available, right?

**long copy and paste from GoPo**

WichitaCat rubs me the wrong way and has a tenancy to be incredibly tuckish, but he does make some solid arguments about recruiting rankings following success rather than predicting it.   

Does he have any numbers supporting his theory?

[The Manhatter]

Can somebody explain Clark to me?  Could use a good talking to, because I'm not sure exactly what I'm missing.

The dude allegedly runs a sub-4.4 40, is 6'-0" and absolutely tore up a legit JUCO league.  

I'm trying to get why he's not even ranked as a Top 50 JC prospect and only had one other D-1 offer.

1) "isn't even in the top 50" was pre-season.  That will change given the year he had when those rankings are updated.

2) He's 5'10 and not 6'0.  Name the last BCS program you can think of that offered a 5'10 juco receiver.  me either.  the OUs, Floridas, etc. if they go after a juco wide receiver they are typically 6'0-plus.

3) he's got proven production and legitimate, verified speed clocked in both the 40 (combine) and track.

it doesn't take even an idiot to figure out this kid is good.  awfully good.

now that I've answered those questions do you need me to hold your hand or do you still doubt and hate because florida state, USC, and LSU didn't offer the kid?  Seriously, every one of those programs has a 5'10 4.4 kid who can play at receiver.

[wabash909]

Welp, just like clockwork the tucks have dusted off the annual "Stars Don't Matter" debate amongst themselves to defend our piss poor recruiting.

Hey, why settle for first when second is available, right?

**long copy and paste from GoPo**

WichitaCat rubs me the wrong way and has a tenancy to be incredibly tuckish, but he does make some solid arguments about recruiting rankings following success rather than predicting it.   

I actually don't really understand that, and never have.

Snyder has been very successful (for the most part, outside of the end of his first tenure) with doing more with lesser talent.

But the reality is, cumulative recruiting rankings, not just one 4 or 5 star bust here or there, ARE a good indicator of future success for the most part.  There are anomalies on both sides, like a two star Jordy Nelson defying odds and becomes an All-American.  The reality is stars on the whole, are very important when looking at tangible information like the NFL draft, which indicates that the top two rounds are completely dominated by athletes ranked as four and five stars in the Rivals ranking system.  That's a statistical fact.

[wabash909]

Can somebody explain Clark to me?  Could use a good talking to, because I'm not sure exactly what I'm missing.

The dude allegedly runs a sub-4.4 40, is 6'-0" and absolutely tore up a legit JUCO league.  

I'm trying to get why he's not even ranked as a Top 50 JC prospect and only had one other D-1 offer.

1) "isn't even in the top 50" was pre-season.  That will change given the year he had when those rankings are updated.

2) He's 5'10 and not 6'0.  Name the last BCS program you can think of that offered a 5'10 juco receiver.  me either.  the OUs, Floridas, etc. if they go after a juco wide receiver they are typically 6'0-plus.

3) he's got proven production and legitimate, verified speed clocked in both the 40 (combine) and track.

it doesn't take even an idiot to figure out this kid is good.  awfully good.

now that I've answered those questions do you need me to hold your hand or do you still doubt and hate because florida state, USC, and LSU didn't offer the kid?  Seriously, every one of those programs has a 5'10 4.4 kid who can play at receiver.

I haven't personally measured him in his socks, but his rivals profile lists his height at 6'-0". 

He seems really good.  Was just curious as to why he only had one other BCS offer.  Probably a qualifying risk.

[Cire]

wasn't tony madison a big time juco wr?

[DQ12]

wasn't tony madison a big time juco wr?

He came up HUGE against the Squawks in '04.

Northeast endzone.

 

[wabash909]

Star Power:  How Rivals rankings hold up to the NFL Draft

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Star-Power-How-recruiting-rankings-hold-up-at-t?urn=ncaaf-wp1103

In summation, stars do matter - statistically.

[WillieWatanabe]

The recruiting isn't anywhere close to the same level it was at the height of Snyder I.

When I see 3 K-State Linebackers all standing the together for a picture on the front page of a national football magazine, with captaion "The Best Linebacking Corp in the Country" next to the picture, then I'll believe that we're recruiting at the same level as the pinnacle of Snyder I.

oo man. can we start a nostalgia thread about the 90's?? I missed out on so much.

[kostakio]

It's different ratings scales, really.  Everybody is basically a three-star in basketball.  They don't really break that stuff out.  It's the numerical lists that separate everyone, as you mention, and Frank has pulled a lot of guys from the lists.  The football side gets much more in depth between stars, sub-ratings within stars, etc.

It's apples to oranges.

 You can’t do it on a “star for star” basis but if you look at what their recruiting classes are w/in their individual sport, then you can.   When I referenced 3 stars, I was making a general statement to describe average players (relative to their respective sport). IMO, Frank’s recruiting classes since 08 are average classes when you compare them to the rest of the big 12/country.  You might be able to make the case that they have been above average when you factor in the transfers that have made an impact.  (...does this sound familiar?)  The difference is that along the way, frank’s gotten mentioned with elite-ish players, bill really hasn’t. 

Who has Bill landed comparable to Upshaw, who is top 50 on Rivals and had offers (and visited) both Louisville and Georgetown? Or even Gipson, who had offers from WVU, OSU, and Cal? Out of the 10 current high school commits for Snyder, the only other BCS offers are Baylor and TCU for one guy and Indiana for another.

And Frank's recruiting classes have averaged out higher relative to the Big 12/nationally than Bill's since whenever Bill came back. For sure.

Bill just landed Clark and Rooks (#11 juco), both w/ high major offers/visits.  Sams was getting all kinds of attention from OU.  You can't just compare HS to HS, have to take the class as a whole and how they compare.  Is Frank's recruiting better than:  KU, UT, Baylor, OSU?  If it's not, then he'd be 5th...in a 10 team league.  which would be average. 

K-State had the last ranked football recruiting class in the conference last year, what the eff are you talking about?

Does anyone really think it was the worst recruiting class in the big 12 though?  The rankings are so stupid and off it's hardly even worth talking about.  The class has played one season and already has a couple of guys that are all big 12.  Not to mention several others that were solid starters/ contributers on a pretty good team this year.    Then throw in young prospects like Sams and there is no way that class will end up being anything close to the worst in the big 12. 

[bigwilliestyle1407]

Snyder made his teams viable during the DOD. By recruiting Juco studs when no one else was doing it. But now the OU's and Nubbs caught on and challenge us for the players we we're locking down year to year back then.  In the 90' s we would have, landed C. Newton with little competion.

[michigancat]

Does anyone really think it was the worst recruiting class in the big 12 though?   

Yes, and their name is everyone but K-State fans.

[DQ12]

Snyder made his teams viable during the DOD. By recruiting Juco studs when no one else was doing it. But now the OU's and Nubbs caught on and challenge us for the players we we're loxking down year to year...... In tge 90' s we would have, landed C. Newton with little competion.

What on earth is this?