So the budget came out today

[Dirty Sanchez]

Link to what '06??

If you read my previous post real close you might just be able to figure it out.

Tell me, which previous "modern day" presidents started and expanded ongoing perpetual wars??  Bush, LBJ and now Obama.  When you combine the defense budget, the war budget, DHS and Intelligence expansion . . . no one comes close to Obama in terms of spending. 

I wasn't aware Obama started a war...going to need that link. You do realize we actually have fewer troops serving overseas right now than when Obama took office right?

Undeclared wars in Pakistan and Yemen is what I believe he is referring to.

[06wildcat]

Table 1. Average Monthly Boots On the Ground in Afghanistan and Iraq:
FY2002-FY2012
Reported FY02-FY08, Estimated FY09-FY12, Rounded to Hundreds
Fiscal Percentage Change
Year/Country
Afghanistan
Iraq
Total
Annual Since
FY2003
Since
FY2008
FY2002 5,200 0 5,200 NA NA NA
FY2003 10,400 67,700 78,100 1402% NA NA
FY2004 15,200 130,600 145,800 87% 87% NA
FY2005 19,100 143,800 162,900 12% 109% NA
FY2006 20,400 141,100 161,500 -1% 107% NA
FY2007 23,700 148,300 172,000 7% 120% NA
FY2008 30,100 157,800 187,900 9% 141% NA
FY2009 50,700 135,600 186,300 -1% 139% -1%
FY2010 63,500 88,300 151,800 -19% 94% -19%
FY2011 63,500 42,800 106,200 -30% 36% -43%
FY2012 63,500 4,100 67,500 -36% -14% -64%


Holy crap, we're actually ending the wars? Unfucking possible since Obama is all about perpetual war right Dax. 

Oh, and here's the rough ridin' link (.pdf): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40682.pdf

[06wildcat]

Link to what '06??

If you read my previous post real close you might just be able to figure it out.

Tell me, which previous "modern day" presidents started and expanded ongoing perpetual wars??  Bush, LBJ and now Obama.  When you combine the defense budget, the war budget, DHS and Intelligence expansion . . . no one comes close to Obama in terms of spending. 

I wasn't aware Obama started a war...going to need that link. You do realize we actually have fewer troops serving overseas right now than when Obama took office right?

Undeclared wars in Pakistan and Yemen is what I believe he is referring to.

Meh...we're in a lot more places doing the same crap or worse. Throw every rough ridin' president on there since the beginning of the "War on Drugs" on that list too.

[wiley]

I wish someone would just hit the reset button and launch the nukes.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I wish someone would just hit the reset button and launch the nukes.

They would but the reset button is mislabeled.

[06wildcat]

Table 1. Average Monthly Boots On the Ground in Afghanistan and Iraq:
FY2002-FY2012
Reported FY02-FY08, Estimated FY09-FY12, Rounded to Hundreds
Fiscal Percentage Change
Year/Country
Afghanistan
Iraq
Total
Annual Since
FY2003
Since
FY2008
FY2002 5,200 0 5,200 NA NA NA
FY2003 10,400 67,700 78,100 1402% NA NA
FY2004 15,200 130,600 145,800 87% 87% NA
FY2005 19,100 143,800 162,900 12% 109% NA
FY2006 20,400 141,100 161,500 -1% 107% NA
FY2007 23,700 148,300 172,000 7% 120% NA
FY2008 30,100 157,800 187,900 9% 141% NA
FY2009 50,700 135,600 186,300 -1% 139% -1%
FY2010 63,500 88,300 151,800 -19% 94% -19%
FY2011 63,500 42,800 106,200 -30% 36% -43%
FY2012 63,500 4,100 67,500 -36% -14% -64%


Holy crap, we're actually ending the wars? Unfucking possible since Obama is all about perpetual war right Dax.  

Oh, and here's the rough ridin' link (.pdf): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40682.pdf

l

Their playing all kinds of games with numbers, and who is and isn't a "combat troop".  There is no end in sight with wars, and Biden is running around saying we'll be in Afghanistan well beyond 2014.  

Sorry 06 . . . http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a89214ac-3ac4-11e0-9c1a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1EYEzj600


Sorry again 06  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/20/AR2011022002975.html

I suppose you think ending a two wars can be done at the push of a button. If Obama ordered every troop out of Afghanistan tomorrow, you'd still be looking at 4-6 months to get them out. And that would mean leaving a shitload of equipment behind to facilitate that.

Of course we're still going to have troops there, doesn't change the fact that you don't know what the eff you're talking about. Fort Riley will have every major unit on post by November. Only one unit will be deployed (about 200 soldiers, all in non-combat roles). It will be the first time that's happened since the Iraq war began.

Obviously Obama is expanding these wars beyond belief. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Giving Obama credit for "ending the wars" because we have fewer troops in Iraq and Afgan after two successful "surges" (one of which he was adamently against) is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) thing I've read on here in a while.

You can't end a war with the push of a button, but you can win one by virtue of being President when all the hard work and tough decision making fianally yields an acceptable result???

FYI - the topic is the conflict in Pakistan

[06wildcat]

Giving Obama credit for "ending the wars" because we have fewer troops in Iraq and Afgan after two successful "surges" (one of which he was adamently against) is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) thing I've read on here in a while.

You can't end a war with the push of a button, but you can win one by virtue of being President when all the hard work and tough decision making fianally yields an acceptable result???

FYI - the topic is the conflict in Pakistan

Iraq may have a chance at a functional government in the next couple decades because of the surge. Afghanistan was and will always be a clusterfuck for the foreseeable future.

As for Pakistan, Yemen, etc. Do you get your panties in a wad over the sometimes quasi-legal actions our para-military agencies take in the narc wars?

Dax's main point isn't necessarily wrong, he's just using bullshit reasons for getting to the conclusion. If anything, the reason defense and intelligence spending keep growing has more to do with mission creep than whoever is president.

[steve dave]

Reaction to President’s funding request for NBAF
February 15th, 2011   in Local by Cathy Dawes   0
President Barack Obama is requesting $150 million dollars for the National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility being built here in Manhattan near Kansas State. Assistant City Manager, Jason Hilgers says he is very pleased with the President’s request. Hilgers adds things are coming right along for the new facility.

Manhattan Mayor oscar Snead says the President’s support shows the importance of research, although Snead says NBAF construction will take several years.

U-S Senator Pat Roberts of Kansas takes just a bit of the credit, saying the Kansas Delegation, including former Senator now Governor Sam Brownback, and former Congressman/now Senator Jerry Moran, worked on this so long.

Meanwhile, Kansas State Vice President for Research Ron Trewyn reminds us that 2012 had been the plan all along. And Trewyn adds the 150 million still needs to be approved by Congress. He reminds us we still have to get some Fiscal year 2011 funds in to work on the central utility plant. But Trewyn describes the latest news from Washington as “excellent” and a show of commitment in these tough economic times.

Kansas State President Kirk Schulz says the President’s commitment from Washington shows how important research like this is.

If any of those back country tea party hicks you losers voted into office somehow get in the way of this budget I will destroy you. 

QFT steve dave

[06wildcat]

06 never said you can just push a button and end the wars 06 . . . but it's quite clear that Obama is pushing more buttons to keep the wars going and going and going.

But hey, it appears the the Fake Anti-War Movement/Obamabots are quite complicit in standing quietly by as Obama pumps more Hellfire and Maverick missiles into mud huts hoping to hit somebody important every once in awhile.   You guys will be all worried about "Blowback" again when you're not in the Whitehouse.

Mission Creep??  Yes, the Mission Creep of this administration allowing the wars to be operated in the backrooms of the CIA/Hired Killers, out of the minds of the sheeple, and out of the domain of normal oversight channels.   

So you're against the narco wars then?

[Panjandrum]

06 never said you can just push a button and end the wars 06 . . . but it's quite clear that Obama is pushing more buttons to keep the wars going and going and going.

But hey, it appears the the Fake Anti-War Movement/Obamabots are quite complicit in standing quietly by as Obama pumps more Hellfire and Maverick missiles into mud huts hoping to hit somebody important every once in awhile.   You guys will be all worried about "Blowback" again when you're not in the Whitehouse.

Mission Creep??  Yes, the Mission Creep of this administration allowing the wars to be operated in the backrooms of the CIA/Hired Killers, out of the minds of the sheeple, and out of the domain of normal oversight channels.   

So you're against the narco wars then?

Dax is right.  Obama is a hawk.  That dude loves him some war.  It's one of the things that I'm very critical about in regards to him, but I'm pretty much against any mission that keeps troops in an area for longer than a fortnight.  It's just too damn expensive, and you don't get any value from it.

And the war on drugs is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  You want to see drug use and crime drastically decrease while helping to secure our borders?  Legalize all sorts of crap.  Tax the Hell out of it.

[Dirty Sanchez]

06 never said you can just push a button and end the wars 06 . . . but it's quite clear that Obama is pushing more buttons to keep the wars going and going and going.

But hey, it appears the the Fake Anti-War Movement/Obamabots are quite complicit in standing quietly by as Obama pumps more Hellfire and Maverick missiles into mud huts hoping to hit somebody important every once in awhile.   You guys will be all worried about "Blowback" again when you're not in the Whitehouse.

Mission Creep??  Yes, the Mission Creep of this administration allowing the wars to be operated in the backrooms of the CIA/Hired Killers, out of the minds of the sheeple, and out of the domain of normal oversight channels.   

So you're against the narco wars then?

Dax is right.  Obama is a hawk.  That dude loves him some war.  It's one of the things that I'm very critical about in regards to him, but I'm pretty much against any mission that keeps troops in an area for longer than a fortnight.  It's just too damn expensive, and you don't get any value from it.

And the war on drugs is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  You want to see drug use and crime drastically decrease while helping to secure our borders?  Legalize all sorts of crap.  Tax the Hell out of it.

Taxing the hell out of it will create a black market, too.

[Rage Against the McKee]

06 never said you can just push a button and end the wars 06 . . . but it's quite clear that Obama is pushing more buttons to keep the wars going and going and going.

But hey, it appears the the Fake Anti-War Movement/Obamabots are quite complicit in standing quietly by as Obama pumps more Hellfire and Maverick missiles into mud huts hoping to hit somebody important every once in awhile.   You guys will be all worried about "Blowback" again when you're not in the Whitehouse.

Mission Creep??  Yes, the Mission Creep of this administration allowing the wars to be operated in the backrooms of the CIA/Hired Killers, out of the minds of the sheeple, and out of the domain of normal oversight channels.   

So you're against the narco wars then?

Dax is right.  Obama is a hawk.  That dude loves him some war.  It's one of the things that I'm very critical about in regards to him, but I'm pretty much against any mission that keeps troops in an area for longer than a fortnight.  It's just too damn expensive, and you don't get any value from it.

And the war on drugs is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  You want to see drug use and crime drastically decrease while helping to secure our borders?  Legalize all sorts of crap.  Tax the Hell out of it.

Taxing the hell out of it will create a black market, too.

Yeah, just like black market booze and cigarettes.

[pike]

06 never said you can just push a button and end the wars 06 . . . but it's quite clear that Obama is pushing more buttons to keep the wars going and going and going.

But hey, it appears the the Fake Anti-War Movement/Obamabots are quite complicit in standing quietly by as Obama pumps more Hellfire and Maverick missiles into mud huts hoping to hit somebody important every once in awhile.   You guys will be all worried about "Blowback" again when you're not in the Whitehouse.

Mission Creep??  Yes, the Mission Creep of this administration allowing the wars to be operated in the backrooms of the CIA/Hired Killers, out of the minds of the sheeple, and out of the domain of normal oversight channels.   

So you're against the narco wars then?

Dax is right.  Obama is a hawk.  That dude loves him some war.  It's one of the things that I'm very critical about in regards to him, but I'm pretty much against any mission that keeps troops in an area for longer than a fortnight.  It's just too damn expensive, and you don't get any value from it.

And the war on drugs is effing Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  You want to see drug use and crime drastically decrease while helping to secure our borders?  Legalize all sorts of cac.  Tax the Hell out of it.

Well put, sir

[06wildcat]

If the U.S. isn't really going to get tough with the Border, than I'm all for legalization.   Because it would end lots of things that are not good for national security. 

OK, but if we go the route of "getting tough with the border" that pretty much means expanding the narco wars.

[michigancat]

I agree w/ Dax 100% on Obama and his wars.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Wars:
It's time to expand the wars, invade mexico, and obliterate all american naysayers.  clearly the measures the US has taken aren't drastic enough in getting us where we need to be.  i'm with Obama, we need to be as hedgemonic as possible


Drugs:
if we start executing people who use drugs, fewer drug users will be around to use them, thus ending all demand and any incentive to manufacture and sell them.  it also reduces the need for energy and reduces overall CO2 levels, which is good for global climate warming change fear mongering.  it will also end about 90% of violent crime in this country and open up the emergency room for losers that won't get health insurance.  3 birds one stone 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Giving Obama credit for "ending the wars" because we have fewer troops in Iraq and Afgan after two successful "surges" (one of which he was adamently against) is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) thing I've read on here in a while.

You can't end a war with the push of a button, but you can win one by virtue of being President when all the hard work and tough decision making fianally yields an acceptable result???

FYI - the topic is the conflict in Pakistan

Iraq may have a chance at a functional government in the next couple decades because of the surge. Afghanistan was and will always be a clustereff for the foreseeable future.

As for Pakistan, Yemen, etc. Do you get your panties in a wad over the sometimes quasi-legal actions our para-military agencies take in the narc wars?

Dax's main point isn't necessarily wrong, he's just using bullcac reasons for getting to the conclusion. If anything, the reason defense and intelligence spending keep growing has more to do with mission creep than whoever is president.

Please tell me you aren't actually attempting to analogize the "war on drugs" with the conflicts/wars/illegal wars in the middle east   

How about the cost of the "war" on the weather?
The cost of the "war" on shitty education?
The cost of the "war" on poverty?

I could be wrong (I'm sure someone will tell me I am), but I don't think the DEA and related law enforcement agency spending comes out of the defense budget.  If fact, if you look at the size of the DOJ budget relative to the rest of the federal government, you'll quickly realize what a tard talking point this is.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The cost of the "war" on shitty education?

That is more of an investment than an actual cost.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The cost of the "war" on shitty education?

That is more of an investment than an actual cost.

The problem is it's a really expensive yet crappy investment that is not paying off.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The cost of the "war" on shitty education?

That is more of an investment than an actual cost.

The problem is it's a really expensive yet crappy investment that is not paying off.

It would probably help if the investment wasn't completely half-assed.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The cost of the "war" on shitty education?

That is more of an investment than an actual cost.

The problem is it's a really expensive yet crappy investment that is not paying off.

It would probably help if the investment wasn't completely half-assed.

$50 billion for the US dept of education is half-assed? The dept of education isn't even directly involved in the education process, simply bureaucrats. Complete waste of money.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

calling government spending an investment should be illegal (Securities Fraud type illegal)

[CNS]

Ed's structure is pretty messed up.

That said, it is underfunded in it's current form.

When new teacher salaries are anywhere in the $20k's, what kind of people do you think you attract to such salaries?   Then you are surprised why more progress can't be made.  

I was making more 3 or 4 years out of college than a teacher with 25 yrs experience and their masters makes.  

We are getting what we pay for.  Simple as that.
 
Pay better and better teachers will be produced.  

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Ed's structure is pretty messed up.

That said, it is underfunded in it's current form.

When new teacher salaries are anywhere in the $20k's, what kind of people do you think you attract to such salaries?   Then you are surprised why more progress can't be made.  

I was making more 3 or 4 years out of college than a teacher with 25 yrs experience and their masters makes.  

We are getting what we pay for.  Simple as that.
 
Pay better and better teachers will be produced.  

do you only work 9 months a year?  teachers are civil servants and make a very fine living relative to other civil servants.