2013 Recruiting Thread

[MakeItRain]

The problem with that overcoaching, other than the dullness watching it, is teams with controlling coaches can look tight in crunch time and become dependent.

Being a nice guy is all well and good but I would rather play for an bad person who trusts me to play. Its cool though, our tucks love the Bobby Knight make at least 7 passes before shooting style.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

The problem with that overcoaching, other than the dullness watching it, is teams with controlling coaches can look tight in crunch time and become dependent.

Being a nice guy is all well and good but I would rather play for an bad person who trusts me to play. Its cool though, our tucks love the Bobby Knight make at least 7 passes before shooting style.

what do you mean by over-coaching?  motion is highly structured, but it isn't patterned or based on set plays.  If anything, it is the under-coaching of motion offense that would make us look tight in crunch time, as we would have neither a full shot clock to run through the motion offense nor a polished book of set plays to help us score quickly.  if motion is controlling, wouldn't almost any half-court offense(except maybe dribble drive motion) fall under the controlling category?  i guess i'm not sure what point your point was...

[kso_FAN]

I get that oscar was a bit controlling with this team and didn't always completely trust this roster and it contributed to us playing slow. But I didn't very often get the feel that he was Norman Dale and required a number of passes before a shot; he simply wanted a good shot. For whatever reason our guys bought that point hard and if anything passed up good shots some times because of it. At home games, it was much more frequent for oscar to yell at guys to shoot rather than to get on them for forcing shots IIRC. I think he'd rather play a mid 60s game.

[CNS]

Yeah, I remember seeing him telling ppl to shoot a lot after possessions during the first half of the season.  I think they got over their tentativeness in the conf play though.  No stats, just seemed like everyone except will was less willing to dish out of a decent opening.

[MakeItRain]

The problem with that overcoaching, other than the dullness watching it, is teams with controlling coaches can look tight in crunch time and become dependent.

Being a nice guy is all well and good but I would rather play for an bad person who trusts me to play. Its cool though, our tucks love the Bobby Knight make at least 7 passes before shooting style.

what do you mean by over-coaching?  motion is highly structured, but it isn't patterned or based on set plays.  If anything, it is the under-coaching of motion offense that would make us look tight in crunch time, as we would have neither a full shot clock to run through the motion offense nor a polished book of set plays to help us score quickly.  if motion is controlling, wouldn't almost any half-court offense(except maybe dribble drive motion) fall under the controlling category?  i guess i'm not sure what point your point was...

yep

[pissclams]

so, we're overcoached now?  i love this talking point. 

[pissclams]

I hope I'll be able to watch #teamangel online next year, playing for whatever Europe team he ends up with.

you really think he's going to go, kougs?  seems like something a coach could talk a player out of.

oscar. Weber.

oscar owns angel.

[MakeItRain]

so, we're overcoached now?  i love this talking point.

I don't think I've ever claimed otherwise. If we're gonna have a conversation about this don't tie other peoples talking points to mine.

For me any offense when a coach is standing on the sideline telling a player where he has to stand 6 months into the season is not ideal, that isn't at all controversial. I have been a staunch proponent of dribble drive. If I were building my ideal team, I would have a team that ran nothing but breaks, secondary breaks, and dribble drive motion when they had to. I don't think, no, I know that oscar Weber isn't they type of coach that would recruit the type of players or be willing to run this system. Again not controversial.

The problem with him not calling the time out against LaSalle is that it was unprecedented. That team was designed to be basketball robots, they didn't freelance ever. That was the wrong time to take the leash off.

[Stevesie60]

We're saying that oscar didn't trust this roster after he put it on the players to come up with a gametying play with 7 seconds left in a NCAA tournament game?

[Mixed-Nutz]

We're saying that oscar didn't trust this roster after he put it on the players to come up with a gametying play with 7 seconds left in a NCAA tournament game?

We are saying he didn't trust the team enough to score out of a timeout. So he didn't call one.

[ksupamplemousse]

We're saying that oscar didn't trust this roster after he put it on the players to come up with a gametying play with 7 seconds left in a NCAA tournament game?

We are saying he didn't trust the team enough to score out of a timeout. So he didn't call one.

I don't think that's what people are saying.

[pissclams]

so, we're overcoached now?  i love this talking point.

I don't think I've ever claimed otherwise. If we're gonna have a conversation about this don't tie other peoples talking points to mine.

For me any offense when a coach is standing on the sideline telling a player where he has to stand 6 months into the season is not ideal, that isn't at all controversial. I have been a staunch proponent of dribble drive. If I were building my ideal team, I would have a team that ran nothing but breaks, secondary breaks, and dribble drive motion when they had to. I don't think, no, I know that oscar Weber isn't they type of coach that would recruit the type of players or be willing to run this system. Again not controversial.

The problem with him not calling the time out against LaSalle is that it was unprecedented. That team was designed to be basketball robots, they didn't freelance ever. That was the wrong time to take the leash off.

let's pretend that this board doesn't have about 5 posters that shape the minds of damn near everyone else here.  ok, now lets stop pretending.

overcoached is good.  you should be proud.

this team was designed by frank to run a "make crap up" offense, oscar just spent the last several months reprogramming them. 

and i disagree that oscar took the leash off, his player had flashbacks to a bygone era of shitty offensive sets and ignored his coach.
undisciplined players do that.

[CHONGS]

Oooo name the 5 who lead the mindless mass!

[michigancat]

how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

[michigancat]

Also, MiR and I would coach some fun basketball teams.

[pissclams]

Oooo name the 5 who lead the mindless mass!

you, you, you, you, and you.  duh.

[pissclams]

how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

there's no connection between the quality of our offense and angel being here to bail us out of late shot clock situations.

[michigancat]

how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

there's no connection between the quality of our offense and angel being here to bail us out of late shot clock situations.

sure there is

[Panjandrum]

how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

I think part of Angel's "magic" is that he can pull something out of his hat with very little time on the clock more often than not.

If I were the coach in that situation, I would have let it ride with Angel in there.  With so much tension on the court, and the chaos that can ensue in that late game situation, with a player like Angel that can create, I'd just let him loose and hope something good happens.  Odds are that it would probably work out for the better more than 50% of the time.

I had no problem with oscar not calling a timeout.  Giving Angel control in that situation was what I would have done.

[CHONGS]

Oooo name the 5 who lead the mindless mass!

you, you, you, you, and you.  duh.

Now we both know that's not true at all.  I guess you mean sd, _Fan, yourself, but the other two I am not sure about.

[SleepFighter]

A five party system seems pretty diverse to me.

[pissclams]

how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

there's no connection between the quality of our offense and angel being here to bail us out of late shot clock situations.

sure there is

all offenses have late shot clock situations, regardless of how you define a quality offense.  angel being here to bail us out does not make our offense better.  the number of the late shot clock situations has nothing to do with angel being here to bail us out of them.

[catzacker]

how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

Did he really do this all that much?  I know these types of things are quite difficult to quantify.  I remember after Beasley and Pullen left thinking this about them.   

My feeling towards Angel is how I felt after Pullen’s soph year (retrospectively).  I found when we relied on either of them to create something themselves it didn’t necessarily work out more often than not – they either turned it over, got too deep in the lane with a drive, lost the ball or didn’t get the ball to the rim effectively, or didn’t get a foul just as much as they found the open guy, got the layup, got the foul, etc. 

[CNS]

Almost every single tuck I know is using Angel's end of clock /game move as justification for them thinking that he was a horrible player this year.

[chum1]

Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.